Lue Map

point hunter

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This is in the Cimmeron, New Mexico area. Look closely @ the pic, and notice the decorative wrought iron S's. The photo is @ legendsofamerica.com
 

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point hunter

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point hunter

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West Monroe, Louisiana
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I am working on a theory, based on physical clues in the field. My current working model, is that the area around Cimmeron, NM is the "Alpha" if you will, and for lack of a better "Omega" the carving stone found north of Conejos Peak, CO. These two "pillars" discussed here, IMHO, are confirming the Cimmeron area. http://sernabook.blogspot.com/2014/01/louis-f.html Now, there are other factors/clues re: Cimmeron, NM. and it's possible connection with the LUE that I may discuss later. This is the east side of the "pillar" that is still left standing in the field. If you look @ the LUE map, there are similar "clues". IMHO, this could represent the top left quadrant of the map, or at least half of it.
 

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point hunter

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This is a directional carving located @ Angelfire, NM. Angelfire is west & south of Cimmeron, NM and north and west of Black Lake, NM. IMHO, there should be other carved signs as well in this area. My best guess is it's pointing North/Northwest. However, without additional information, who knows?
 

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point hunter

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Feb 1, 2007
136
68
West Monroe, Louisiana
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These maps show a coal field that borders New Mexico & Colorado in the Raton area. I plotted LUE clues, known placer deposits, and all the areas mentioned in "The Ancient River of Gold" by Raymond Wallace on Google Earth. My focus was from Farmington, New Mexico (4 corners) east to the San Juan Valley. Then to Denver in the north and The Black Range (Socorro) in the south. Two things that became apparent, IMHO, were that the LUE possibly extends from the 105 all the way to the 107 latitude and KVM was probably not looking far enough to the west or northwest for his "Cavern of Gold". Mr. Wallace says the ancient river travels eastward from Farmington (along an uncharted course) and then branches both north and south roughly around the San Juan Valley along the border of New Mexico/Colorado. The known placer deposits seem to cluster along the western margin of the Raton coal field in Northern New Mexico. IMHO, following the coal field could possibly yield more clues to the LUE &/or the cavern of gold.
 

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point hunter

Full Member
Feb 1, 2007
136
68
West Monroe, Louisiana
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TREASURE HUNTER'S YEARBOOK

1970 - '71 A. T. Evans


KvM fro mtreasure Hunter's Yearbook.jpg
von MUELLER, KARL; Exanimo Establishment, Segundo, Colorado 81070. One of the best known, and most widely read contributors of information and techniques relating to the field of treasure hunting.

Started relic hunting at Fort Kearney, Nebraska, in 1931-32, by looking for buried guns and jewelry. Started finding money caches in the Oregon Trail campgrounds. and thus began a career as a treasure hunter. Hid most of the loot and toured western states by bus, train and airplane.

Returned to Nebraska to enter medical school bur joined the Army instead. Served one hitch and excused himself to return to civilian life and a career of writing and exploring.

Has written under 23 or more pseudonyms, and is known better as Karl von Mueller, Dean Miller (his real name) or Deek Gladson, the latter being a corruption of his initials and his wife's maiden name, Gladyce Johnson. Has authored numerous books dealing with prospecting and treasure hunting. The TREASURE HUNTER'S MANUAL series comprise his best known books of the adventure field. Started Exanirno Establishment in 1964, as a non-profit publishing firm. Expanded into metal detectors during the fall of that year, and the firm now supplies the professional field in treasure hunting and mining with a complete line of equipment. New books now being printed, or in the process of being completed are: TREASURE OF THE VALLEY OF SECRETS (the documented story of a genuine cave of gold in the Sangre de Cristo mountains), the GOLD DREDGER'S MANUAL (a technical how-to-do -it book for the beginner as well as for the experienced suction dredge operator), ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BURIED TREASURE AND PROSPECTING (a greatly enlarged 2nd edition of the original Encyclopedia of Treasure), THE TREASURE SIGN MANUAL (a completely new dictionary of treasure signs which include hobo, outlaw, Indian, Spanish, Church and other signs), detector manuals (a series of metal detector manuals that provide complex details of individual circuits and extensive how-to-use-them information), and THE DOWSERS MANUAL (a complete treatment of the dowsing or divining field around the world). In addition, negotiations are underway for reprinting the seven published TREASURE HUNTER'S MANUALS, of which all are currently out of print. The eighth edition is approximately half done, and will be published late in 1971.


Here is a partial quote from Karl Von Muellers biography that was published in 1970-71 by Mr. A T Evans. I have seen most of KVM's published books but have never heard of "The Treasure Sign Manual". A quick internet search doesn't show this book either. I mention this because here is another book possibly related to the LUE, which has been quoted as being in print, but appears not to exist. Speculation by one of our members, is that KVM wrote this bibliography himself. If that's so, why mention this book and to what purpose? IMHO, it's to put searchers on the right path and possibly provide a clue when looking for signs in the field.
 
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sdcfia

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Sep 28, 2014
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TREASURE HUNTER'S YEARBOOK

1970 - '71 A. T. Evans

von MUELLER, KARL; Exanimo Establishment, Segundo, Colorado 81070.
Has written under 23 or more pseudonyms, and is known better as Karl von Mueller, Dean Miller (his real name) or Deek Gladson ...
Why? This always bothered me about this guy.
 

Ryano

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Feb 16, 2014
698
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Charlotte, NC
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Why? This always bothered me about this guy.
I think it was Randy who said the treasure magazines, like the pulp sci-fi/adventure periodicals, capped the number of articles printed per author. Of course that doesn't explain why he continued to use the pseudonyms long after he'd established his own publishing companies. Maybe to throw off others chasing his trail, so to speak ? Or maybe to give the illusion his publishing studio had more authors under its roof than it really did ? Great question.
 

Ryano

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Feb 16, 2014
698
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Charlotte, NC
Primary Interest:
Cache Hunting
This is a directional carving located @ Angelfire, NM. Angelfire is west & south of Cimmeron, NM and north and west of Black Lake, NM. IMHO, there should be other carved signs as well in this area. My best guess is it's pointing North/Northwest. However, without additional information, who knows?
Point Hunter , you've posted some interesting stuff here. Can you please circle or highlight the directional sign ? Having trouble seeing it. Thanks!
 

point hunter

Full Member
Feb 1, 2007
136
68
West Monroe, Louisiana
Detector(s) used
Ace 250, GTI 2500
Point Hunter , you've posted some interesting stuff here. Can you please circle or highlight the directional sign ? Having trouble seeing it. Thanks!
Hi. I must confess, my computer skills aren't the greatest. Lol But, if you divide the pic into 4 quads(like the LUE map), it's in the top right quad. There are two trees seen along the skyline, it's the rock formation just to the left of the left hand tree. Enlarge it, and you can see the face profile. Also, if you look to the level below, you'll notice two small white eye catcher rocks sitting on a big rock. That's a frog/turtle looking up @ it confirming it IMHO.
 

point hunter

Full Member
Feb 1, 2007
136
68
West Monroe, Louisiana
Detector(s) used
Ace 250, GTI 2500
Why? This always bothered me about this guy.
I guess I never gave it much thought. I just assumed it was for multiple income streams. I don't know, but I'm guessing each submission didn't pay that much. But, the more I think about it, if I had a number of other names and say a po box with it, I could easily create fake id's.
 
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Ryano

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Feb 16, 2014
698
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Hi. I must confess, my computer skills aren't the greatest. Lol But, if you divide the pic into 4 quads(like the LUE map), it's in the top right quad. There are two trees seen along the skyline, it's the rock formation just to the left of the left hand tree. Enlarge it, and you can see the face profile. Also, if you look to the level below, you'll notice two small white eye catcher rocks sitting on a big rock. That's a frog/turtle looking up @ it confirming it IMHO.
Thanks.. I think I see it, maybe.

This photo is by Brice Shirbach, a professional mountain biker from the East coast. Was the rock effigy on this specific bluff or escarpment captured in the photo already known to petroglyph hunters, or did you discover it while looking for photos of the area - like with a Google search ? Just curious how you became aware of it.
 

Ryano

Hero Member
Feb 16, 2014
698
1,140
Charlotte, NC
Primary Interest:
Cache Hunting
These maps show a coal field that borders New Mexico & Colorado in the Raton area. I plotted LUE clues, known placer deposits, and all the areas mentioned in "The Ancient River of Gold" by Raymond Wallace on Google Earth. My focus was from Farmington, New Mexico (4 corners) east to the San Juan Valley. Then to Denver in the north and The Black Range (Socorro) in the south. Two things that became apparent, IMHO, were that the LUE possibly extends from the 105 all the way to the 107 latitude and KVM was probably not looking far enough to the west or northwest for his "Cavern of Gold". Mr. Wallace says the ancient river travels eastward from Farmington (along an uncharted course) and then branches both north and south roughly around the San Juan Valley along the border of New Mexico/Colorado. The known placer deposits seem to cluster along the western margin of the Raton coal field in Northern

New Mexico. IMHO, following the coal field could possibly yield more clues to the LUE &/or the cavern of gold.
so what do you think the LUE is ?

Seems like even KVM wasnt sure, or his ideas about it evolved over time. It's an Aztec treasure hoard, or mine, or a number of caches.

Given the history of gold, coal, and mineral mining in that NM-CO border region and the number of surveyors, geologists, and miners that have turned up every hillside, river, creek, and wash in the 19th-20th century it's sobering to realize there might not be anything left to discover
 

Ryano

Hero Member
Feb 16, 2014
698
1,140
Charlotte, NC
Primary Interest:
Cache Hunting
This is in the Cimmeron, New Mexico area. Look closely @ the pic, and notice the decorative wrought iron S's. The photo is @ legendsofamerica.com
Wrought iron S shapes were pretty common on tall brick buildings of the period; used for supporting the wall, especially chimneys.
 

Ryano

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Feb 16, 2014
698
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Charlotte, NC
Primary Interest:
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I still think a sundial is depicted on the map.

sdcfia said someone else put forth this idea in detail some years ago but if haven't found their post on TreasureNet yet, perhaps it was on another website forum.

The "surveyor's tools", as some have called them, in the top-right quadrant are actually notating the "shadow marks"

this is the (not treasure-hunting related) blog I stumbled across earlier this year that convinced me the LUE map is shadow-sign rather than depicting celestial navigation, though it could be both I suppose. Anyways, this Sundial of Ahaz has an awful lot in common with the LUE iconography.

Hope you take a look at it and share your thoughts!

 

Randy Bradford

Sr. Member
Jun 27, 2004
442
763
Why? This always bothered me about this guy.
Truth be told, most of his pseudonyms were simply derivations of his name. Best I can tell he really didn't like the name Charles. Some of his pseudonyms were things like Charles Dean Miller, Dean Miller, C.D. Miller, etc. I think the bulk of those, besides Deek Gladson, were used in the 1950s when he was trying to find himself. Keep in mind, this wasn't uncommon. Ed Bartholomew who had a solid reputation as a Western Historian published his treasure hunting materials under the name Jesse Rascoe. Maurice Kildare, who published literally hundreds of treasure hunting articles, was in fact Gladwell Richardson who published under nearly 3 dozen different names for a wide variety of periodicals as well as fiction novels.

In some ways, I think Karl was ahead of his time. Research into his life before he became prominent for Tresure Hunting shows a man who was trying very hard to find his personal rhythm. He worked a great many jobs but the one consistent thread was a desire to be his own boss and that he was working hard to "brand" himself. I think that's ultimately what Exanimo would become, Karl's personal brand that was inseparable from the man.
 

Randy Bradford

Sr. Member
Jun 27, 2004
442
763
so what do you think the LUE is ?

Seems like even KVM wasnt sure, or his ideas about it evolved over time. It's an Aztec treasure hoard, or mine, or a number of caches.

Given the history of gold, coal, and mineral mining in that NM-CO border region and the number of surveyors, geologists, and miners that have turned up every hillside, river, creek, and wash in the 19th-20th century it's sobering to realize there might not be anything left to discover
There are three possible "best" possibilities in my estimation, strangely they are interconnected.

1.) The LUE is in fact one in the same as the Lost Frenchmen gold of Treasure Mountain. Lots of overlapping aspects to both stories. Explaining it all would probably be best done in a separate thread.
2.) KGC, Bob Brewer has confirmed this suspicion but I'm always open to new ideas and information. This is the hardest one to validate, but when you can easily eliminate some other possibilities the KGC stands as a distinct possibility.
3.) The KGC using the Treasure Mountain story as a cover story. Given the origins of the Treasure Mountain story and how it came to be published out of the blue in the early 1900s, I've speculated at how strange it is so much was written of a story that had not previously existed. If you look at other well-known stories like the Dutchman, the Lost Adams, the Lost Cabin, Pegleg, etc., those stories stretch back well into the 1860s. You see them mentioned time and time again in early newspapers. The Frenchmen story just appears on a vast scale out of nowhere.
4.) I haven't ruled out Spanish/Jesuit collaborating, but there just isn't much there to run with beyond thin speculation.

What the LUE is NOT:
Nazi
Mayan
Aztec
 

Randy Bradford

Sr. Member
Jun 27, 2004
442
763
TREASURE HUNTER'S YEARBOOK

1970 - '71 A. T. Evans


KvM fro mtreasure Hunter's Yearbook.jpg's Yearbook.jpg
von MUELLER, KARL; Exanimo Establishment, Segundo, Colorado 81070. One of the best known, and most widely read contributors of information and techniques relating to the field of treasure hunting.

Started relic hunting at Fort Kearney, Nebraska, in 1931-32, by looking for buried guns and jewelry. Started finding money caches in the Oregon Trail campgrounds. and thus began a career as a treasure hunter. Hid most of the loot and toured western states by bus, train and airplane.

Returned to Nebraska to enter medical school bur joined the Army instead. Served one hitch and excused himself to return to civilian life and a career of writing and exploring.

Has written under 23 or more pseudonyms, and is known better as Karl von Mueller, Dean Miller (his real name) or Deek Gladson, the latter being a corruption of his initials and his wife's maiden name, Gladyce Johnson. Has authored numerous books dealing with prospecting and treasure hunting. The TREASURE HUNTER'S MANUAL series comprise his best known books of the adventure field. Started Exanirno Establishment in 1964, as a non-profit publishing firm. Expanded into metal detectors during the fall of that year, and the firm now supplies the professional field in treasure hunting and mining with a complete line of equipment. New books now being printed, or in the process of being completed are: TREASURE OF THE VALLEY OF SECRETS (the documented story of a genuine cave of gold in the Sangre de Cristo mountains), the GOLD DREDGER'S MANUAL (a technical how-to-do -it book for the beginner as well as for the experienced suction dredge operator), ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BURIED TREASURE AND PROSPECTING (a greatly enlarged 2nd edition of the original Encyclopedia of Treasure), THE TREASURE SIGN MANUAL (a completely new dictionary of treasure signs which include hobo, outlaw, Indian, Spanish, Church and other signs), detector manuals (a series of metal detector manuals that provide complex details of individual circuits and extensive how-to-use-them information), and THE DOWSERS MANUAL (a complete treatment of the dowsing or divining field around the world). In addition, negotiations are underway for reprinting the seven published TREASURE HUNTER'S MANUALS, of which all are currently out of print. The eighth edition is approximately half done, and will be published late in 1971.


Here is a partial quote from Karl Von Muellers biography that was published in 1970-71 by Mr. A T Evans. I have seen most of KVM's published books but have never heard of "The Treasure Sign Manual". A quick internet search doesn't show this book either. I mention this because here is another book possibly related to the LUE, which has been quoted as being in print, but appears not to exist. Speculation by one of our members, is that KVM wrote this bibliography himself. If that's so, why mention this book and to what purpose? IMHO, it's to put searchers on the right path and possibly provide a clue when looking for signs in the field.
Karl announced a lot of book projects over the years that never reached fruition. Treasure Sign Manual and the Dowser's Manual are just two. Jesse Rascoe's Treasure Bibliography lists quite a few more, and the NPG is replete with references to other books he had been working on.

Karl was a man with more to do than time to do it. He ran the Exanimo Establishment selling treasure hunting and mining equipment, all while publishing multiple newsletters such as the NPG and Exanimo Express, while also publishing his own material, writing for other magazines (including a regular column with Western/Eastern Treasures, and wrote more correspondence than anyone I know...I know, I've read dozens of his letters from nearly as many people he was writing to, and those make up a fraction that only consist of what I've gotten my hands on.

My background is in mental health...and I've seriously wondered if Karl wasn't bi-polar or at least manic. I don't know how he wrote so much, in so little time, and still made time to eat and sleep. That's not an exaggeration in the least.
 

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,428
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Primary Interest:
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There are three possible "best" possibilities in my estimation, strangely they are interconnected.

1.) The LUE is in fact one in the same as the Lost Frenchmen gold of Treasure Mountain. ...
2.) KGC, Bob Brewer has confirmed this suspicion ...
3.) The KGC using the Treasure Mountain story as a cover story. ...
4.) I haven't ruled out Spanish/Jesuit collaborating, but there just isn't much there to run with beyond thin speculation.

What the LUE is NOT:
Nazi
Mayan
Aztec
1) Interesting conjecture, but how can you claim this as factual? For those interested in Treasure Mountain proven facts, check out a number of mdog's posts in this thread: Treasure Mountain, CO - Lost Frenchmens Gold
2) Bob is a respected and mondo contributor to TH lore, but those who know him will attest that he is certainly not infallible. "Confirmed"? When? Where?
3) This is far and away the most probable, IMO, and if so would verify my LUE hoax opinion. As you know, it's my contention that a very large number of treasure tales first appeared in the 1920s-30s, and are in fact cover stories meant to discourage searchers looking for possibly valid gold caches in many locations. I guess in this respect, many treasure tales could be deemed hoaxes, but let's say instead "hoaxes based on truths". Was Miller associated with a later incarnation of the KGC? That would be an interesting topic to pursue.
4) Meh.
 

Randy Bradford

Sr. Member
Jun 27, 2004
442
763
1) Interesting conjecture, but how can you claim this as factual? For those interested in Treasure Mountain proven facts, check out a number of mdog's posts in this thread: Treasure Mountain, CO - Lost Frenchmens Gold
2) Bob is a respected and mondo contributor to TH lore, but those who know him will attest that he is certainly not infallible. "Confirmed"? When? Where?
3) This is far and away the most probable, IMO, and if so would verify my LUE hoax opinion. As you know, it's my contention that a very large number of treasure tales first appeared in the 1920s-30s, and are in fact cover stories meant to discourage searchers looking for possibly valid gold caches in many locations. I guess in this respect, many treasure tales could be deemed hoaxes, but let's say instead "hoaxes based on truths". Was Miller associated with a later incarnation of the KGC? That would be an interesting topic to pursue.
4) Meh.

1) Never claimed it as factual. I'm operating under the assumption that both the LUE and the Treasure Mountain stories are legitimate. The stories sound a great deal alike if you compare reported recoveries (and searches) for the LUE with lore regarding the Treasure Mountain story. Both have multiple caching locations, both are in the same general area, both involve treasure signs, and I believe the Frenchmen's map may very well have been the LUE. I admit this is speculation, if I felt it were fact I wouldn't have posted multiple possibilities (as I interpret them). KvM also mentioned the Treasure Mountain story being well known under another name and having been published previously. These little bits add up, but I fully recognize it's a long way from conclusive. But in fairness, short of a recovery, none of this will ever be conclusive, least of all to someone who believes this is all a hoax to begin with.

2) If you know Bob Brewer, you know he's a private man. I offered a suggestion but am not really at liberty to share much more. Bob firmly believes nearly all major treasure stories are KGC related, so this suggesting isn't earth shattering. How valid it is as a possibility, lies with the reader and their interpretation. If you've seen my video you have a good idea on how KGC symbology can be seen plainly on the map, the video also outlines concerns I have with how much different the LUE is compared to other types of KGC mapping styles.

3) Other than Victorio Peak, I don't know any large scale or well-known treasure stories that came out of the 1930s. Mostly what happened was existing stories, in many cases stories that were already 80 years old or more, became much more prominent. This seems as simple as broke Depression era folk chasing a dream. It's also worth noting, that "Trails of Spanish Gold" was allegedly published in this same time period and if ever found would predate Karl's influence on the LUE. I've long suspected that book was written by a CCC surveyor who was working in the same area as the LUE. Regarding KGC cover stories, I always found it odd that the KGC would plant false information when silence would work even better. Provoking people to look for a treasure they might accidentally find in the process seems strange when you could simply keep quiet and people would never be any wiser. Why draw attention, even false attention, to something you're trying to keep hidden in the first place? That said, doesn't large scale KGC lore also point to many of the treasures being moved in the 1920s and 1930s after maps and codes were discovered in a secret compartment in a traveler's foot locker?

PURE CONJECTURE: I don't think Karl was affiliated with the KGC, though he was indeed a Mason. I think it's far more likely he stumbled onto the map by accident. He came by the map (as I recall) in the late 1950s. KGC as a source of treasure wouldn't be exposed in large scale until the early 1970s with the publication of "Jesse James Was One of his Names." The person who had the LUE that Hardrock and Karl borrowed from likely didn't know what he had either or he wouldn't have lent it out.
 

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