Metal Detecting California School Grounds

[04jeep]

After asking permission from the custodian if I could metal detect today during holiday season I was told I could. Later I was approached by the Superintendent and told to leave. I told him that I had gotten permission before I started and he didn't want to hear it. Is it legal to hunt school grounds that have a gate open when no school is scheduled or not. Puzzled in Atwater, Central Valley Calif.

Thanks and HH

 

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[Loco-Digger]

Sorry about your luck. I just hunt them and have only had one issues in Ohio over the past 3 years. I doubt if the janitor is the person who can give permission.

 

[04jeep]

If it was the Superintendent of the Schools, you're probably out of luck. They usually have legal authority to request people to leave the school property for any reason. Public lands (such as schools) actually do have agents who are authorized to do that. The Principal, Superintendent, and even custodian can request departure, if they're allowed by local ordinance (usually agent of the school is caretaker or principal... not a teacher).

In a nutshell, though, if there's not an ordinance or sign prohibiting it, they can run you off, but they really can't prevent you from coming back. Asking someone to leave is not a permanent ban of activity. Just be careful, though. In this case, I'd hunt off hours of school. Sometimes it's best to not poke the bear.

Cheers,

Skippy

Skippy...I've only hunted this school twice. Once in the summer and today since schools will be closed for two weeks for Christmas vacation. Thought It would be safe to hunt at this time. Can't win them all.

HH

 

[Tom_in_CA]

04jeep, your posted situation here says a lot . You get "permission", thinking it's needed, and to give a sense of security . So you don't feel like you have to be looking over your shoulder ", eh ? But lo & behold some other busy body comes along and throws you out DESPITE your permission.

And I got news for you: It could have happened the other way around: If the lower ranking city or school person had been the one to come out, you whip out your "permission ", right? But they get on their cell phone, call down to headquarters and say: "... but he's tearing the place up!" (Which isn't true, of course). Then guess what happens to your permission?

Let's face it: Turf hunting has connotations. That you might be about to leave holes. Skippy is right: just go at lower traffic times when said-griper isn't around.

It's gotten to where I do most of my turf hunting at night these days. So peaceful. So serene.

 

[04jeep]

04jeep, your posted situation here says a lot . You get "permission", thinking it's needed, and to give a sense of security . So you don't feel like you have to be looking over your shoulder ", eh ? But lo & behold some other busy body comes along and throws you out DESPITE your permission.

And I got news for you: It could have happened the other way around: If the lower ranking city or school person had been the one to come out, you whip out your "permission ", right? But they get on their cell phone, call down to headquarters and say: "... but he's tearing the place up!" (Which isn't true, of course). Then guess what happens to your permission?

Let's face it: Turf hunting has connotations. That you might be about to leave holes. Skippy is right: just go at lower traffic times when said-griper isn't around.

It's gotten to where I do most of my turf hunting at night these days. So peaceful. So serene.

Tom, your advice is always welcome.

Thanks and HH.

 

[Bass]

Have had the same thing happen in Louisiana. I called school board office and got permission to hunt a school ground. While there, (on a Saturday) the principal drove up and asked me a bunch of questions. Then he wanted to know if I had gotten permission to hunt and I told him yes. He said good luck, see ya later. Another time at another place I was asked to leave and I did.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Have had the same thing happen in Louisiana. I called school board office and got permission to hunt a school ground. While there, (on a Saturday) the principal drove up and asked me a bunch of questions. Then he wanted to know if I had gotten permission to hunt and I told him yes. He said good luck, see ya later. Another time at another place I was asked to leave and I did.

Just goes to show you, that "permission" (as if it were needed) is a rather arbitrary and whimsical. Far from "authoritative" and "secure". MD'rs will often bolster the notion that we should all grovel in such fashion, since their "yes" seems to bolster that assertion. But I often muse that it merely means

A) they didn't ask in the right way of wording (eg.: did they be sure to mention "holes" and "dig" ?), and

B) I could go into that exact same office the very next day and fetch a "no", and

C) Let's see how easily that "yes" is over-turned by the next passer-by griper

Not saying a "yes" isn't comforting. But just saying it's not the solve-all. And the process of asking can sometimes backfire , where you get a "no", when in fact, detecting isn't/wasnt an issue (ie.: the "safe" answer). In which case you just did yourself a dis-service.

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

In Fresno county it's a no go on hunting school grounds and they are all fenced in properties but in Clovis it O.K. it just depends on the city.Right now in Fresno county where I live there is a school being rebuilt and the construction supervisor gave me an all clear to detect.But if any official from the school see's me it will probably be revoked, so safety vest and bump cap to blend in will be used so I look like one of the construction guys.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

In Fresno county it's a no go on hunting school grounds and they are all fenced in properties but in Clovis it O.K.....

Hello B of the B: Just wondering where this information comes from ? Ie.: where are you reading (is it in actual printed rules or laws somewhere?) that "Fresno county schools are all a no go" ? Versus Clovis: Is there something your reading (printed/written actual specific allowance ?) As if to say there were a "metal detecting allowed here" type statute ? Please let us know.

....., so safety vest and bump cap to blend in will be used so I look like one of the construction guys.

Ahhh, a "don't make waves" and "avoid a griper" and a "wink wink" stance shows me that you know that 99% of this "school" stuff is really just in someone's ability to not be a sore thumb begging for a "scram". Not an issue of "is it allowed or not".

That's me reading between the lines I see in your last statement. Because otherwise, if something is "allowed", then why feel the need to "blend" (as in, to not attract gripers or attention).

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey gang, getting back to the OP's opening lament: It's an issue of an underling (the mere janitor) being overturned in-the-field by a higher-up. Right ?

I recall that this very scenario has caused some md'rs (seeking to avoid the OP's plight) to therefore ask as HIGH UP THE LADDER as possible. Ie.: you don't just speak to rank and file, but .... you go to the highest highest you can go in the bureaucracy, TO AVOID THIS VERY SCENARIO. Right ?

So a humorous post once evolved along this lines, that I will post next:

 

[Tom_in_CA]

True story posted:

An md'r arrived in a particular city that he hadn't md'd in before. He pulls up to a park, evaluating if he's going to detect there or not. Off in the distance he sees a park worker picking up litter, and emptying garbage cans. He walks over to the worker and asks "Is it ok to detect here ?". The worker, a young college age fellow, shrugs his shoulders and says "I don't see why not".

So the md'r walks back to his truck to fetch his detector. However, he begins to have doubts. This worker seems more like a student worker lowling. Perhaps doesn't have the authority to say yes or no. And also his answer didn't seem to have a resounding "yes you can" or "yes it's allowed". But instead it was more of a "beats me" type answer. So the md'r is still worried that this isn't authoritative enough.

Then the md'r see off in the distance: A city truck parked next to a park building, and some other worker milling about over there. He walks over to him, and sees that this fellow is more of an adult, has a city truck, and is fiddling with some duties at a shed. He asks this more senior worker: "Is it ok to metal detect here ?" The worker, like the prior person, answers something to the effect of "I don't see why not" type answer.

Again the md'r returns to his truck to fetch his detector. But again he's worried that it was not a resounding "yes it's allowed" . And he worries that perhaps this worker ALSO "reports to someone else", and is not the top dog in that city's park's dept. to truly give the green light. Afterall, you'd hate to be booted by someone else who drives up who is higher ranking!

So he drives to city hall, finds the parks dept. section, and approaches the reception desk. Asks the gal "Is it ok to metal detect in the parks?". And her answer to is sort of wishy washy. Like "well I've seen people do it before" or "I don't see why not" type answer. So the guy says "Is there the over-seer of the entire dept. that can give a definite concise answer ? So she excuses herself from the desk and confers with various superiors in offices within. Comes back to the front and tells the man "no you can't".

Is that crazy or what ?? The guy got THREE YES'S. Yet proceeds to ask further and further up the chain, till finally he finds someone to tell him "no". Yet this VERY SILLY SERIES OF STEPS is what some people conclude is necessary "lest a higher up come boot them overturning a lower yes"

 

[cudamark]

I never second guess a "Yes".......only a "No". I don't care who in the chain of command gives me a yes. If a higher up comes back with a no, I'm not in the argument, as, after all, I did ask. It's between the higher up and the low level worker. I have no problem interjecting my opinion however!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I never second guess a "Yes".......only a "No"....

Bingo. You are a breath of fresh air. Heck, if the little girl on the swing says "yes you can", that's good enough for me ! Who am I to argue with a "yes"?

It's not my job to search far and wide through a city of 100,000 people, for a single city lawyer, or a single archie or gardener, who might see things differently. If that lone person in 100,000 tells me scram, sure, I'll give lip service and move on. But it's not my duty to make sure every last person on earth is satisfied and signed off on me.

Yet to some other md'rs, a "scram" to them means "they should have grovelled longer and higher, and gotten everyone's say-so, lest.... heaven forbid .... 'someone not like it' ".

 

[cudamark]

I don't know if I'd go that far! I think I'd at least want an ok by an adult.

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

Hello B of the B: Just wondering where this information comes from ? Ie.: where are you reading (is it in actual printed rules or laws somewhere?) that "Fresno county schools are all a no go" ? Versus Clovis: Is there something your reading (printed/written actual specific allowance ?) As if to say there were a "metal detecting allowed here" type statute ? Please let us know.



Ahhh, a "don't make waves" and "avoid a griper" and a "wink wink" stance shows me that you know that 99% of this "school" stuff is really just in someone's ability to not be a sore thumb begging for a "scram". Not an issue of "is it allowed or not".

That's me reading between the lines I see in your last statement. Because otherwise, if something is "allowed", then why feel the need to "blend" (as in, to not attract gripers or attention).

The reason I know the Fresno county schools are a no go is that you would have to climb over Atlas fencing to get in, whereas in Clovis the schools have open gates and a city worker gave me the heads up when I was in a park detecting one day.If he hadn't told me I would have thought Clovis,Ca was the same as Fresno,Ca. I didn't go looking or asking for permission it came up in our conversation about detecting schools.A lot of the reason for Fresno, Ca being that way Is a major gang problem in that town.And Fresno cops shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The reason I know the Fresno county schools are a no go is that you would have to climb over Atlas fencing to get in, ...

To my knowledge , in all CA cities I've traveled to/through, all schools seem to be fenced. This began in the late 1970s/early '80s, in the era of litigical concerns . So if someone slips on a banana peel, or fall of a slide, you can't sue them.

... whereas in Clovis the schools have open gates ....

Hmmm, ok. An open gate to me means "fair game" as well. But what do you do if there's the obligatory signage (you know, the faded signs half-fallen off that no one ever reads), to the effect of "visitors check in at office", blah blah ?

.... a city worker gave me the heads up when I was in a park detecting one day.If he hadn't told me I would have thought Clovis,Ca was the same as Fresno,Ca......

You do realize of course, that another city worker could give an entirely different answer, right ? Hence far from being an authoritative "allowed", it's merely a matter of who you ask, and how you phrase it . Eg.: did you be sure to mention "dig" , "holes" "take" & "remove" when you asked ?

I TOO would not argue with that yes (so don't misunderstand me). But just saying that single city worker's yes or no, to me, doesn't constitute "law" or "allowed" or "disallowed". There's story after story of persons getting a "yes" like this, only to have some other griper still boot you.

I have no doubt that.... if any of us looked long enough and hard enough at the "print" or actual codes and rules, I'm sure that every non-school authorized use (frisbee, walking your dog, shooting hoops, jogging the track) is probably all disallowed. Same for spitting on sidewalks, jaywalking, etc... But sure, the REALISTIC answer (as given to you by that nice worker) is .... no one will care, so long as you're not being a nuisance of some sort.

 

[sjvalleyhunter]

The reason I know the Fresno county schools are a no go is that you would have to climb over Atlas fencing to get in, whereas in Clovis the schools have open gates and a city worker gave me the heads up when I was in a park detecting one day.If he hadn't told me I would have thought Clovis,Ca was the same as Fresno,Ca. I didn't go looking or asking for permission it came up in our conversation about detecting schools.A lot of the reason for Fresno, Ca being that way Is a major gang problem in that town.And Fresno cops shoot first and ask questions later.

I've hunted Fresno schools for many years and not once, ever, have I been asked / told to leave. It seems like seven or eight years ago the gates were left open with a greater frequency than they are these days, but on occasion you can still find one that a groundskeeper has left open. And when they are all locked and it's a weekend, I'll unlock the gate and go in. (Shhhh, I have a school district key).

Clovis schools have produced better for me, but I get FAR more lookie loos who try to subtlety meander in my direction to see what I'm doing. I've even had parents tell me that they don't think the school district would approve of me being there "digging holes". They then walk just far enough away to where they think I can't hear them as they call Clovis PD to report my "vandalism". Thus, night time hunts come into play when I'm in Clovis.

The only school that I have ever been asked to leave from was in Selma. I was hunting it a week before school started and evidently there were some teachers on campus who were getting their classrooms ready for the new year. The principal approached me and told me that I was making some of the teachers "nervous", despite me being a hundred yards away from the classrooms.

Here is my bottom line opinion when it comes to detecting PUBLIC school grounds. I assume I have an inherent right to be on PUBLIC property unless advised otherwise. Legally speaking, its been a few years since I have researched it, but if I recall correctly the California Education Code states that each individual school has the right to determine if their grounds will be open for public usage during non school hours. I have yet to see a school with posted no trespassing signs, so it's my assumption that it is open for public usage until I am told otherwise by a school official. I never ask for permission because as Tom has quite often said, it's very easy to get a "no" when you wouldn't be told no if you didn't ask in the first place.

And ahem, go easy on the popo. [emoji51]

 

[Tom_in_CA]

In Fresno county it's a no go on hunting school grounds and they are all fenced in properties....

I've hunted Fresno schools for many years and not once, ever, have I been asked / told to leave.....

The above 2 contradictory statements are not unusual.

a) One person deduces "no", for whatever reason. Eg.: Someone told them that, or they couldn't find an open gate, or saw a sign, or read it from someone else who'd heard "no", etc....

b) However someone else, at the exact same location, deduces "yes". Eg.: someone told them yes, or they saw open gates, and no one ever bothered them. Or they followed their mentors there who'd md'd there for decades with no issue (why argue with success?).

For this reason, I am sometimes skeptical when I read someone saying "such & such forest is a no-no" or "such & such state parks are a no-no" or "such & such country is no-no", etc....