Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

Crow

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Gidday Loke some things are better left unsaid. Some times history totally forgets things. And to some that is a tactical advantage to take advantage of.8-)

Here is another quick yarn for you. Not exactly a DC 3 but a DC4

The flight began uneventfully, with the hulking DC-4 propeller plane, loaded down with gold, rising up from a remote airstrip near a northern B.C. mine.It was headed to nearby Alaska where its 16,600 pounds of gold concentrate would be processed. It's a coarse, grainy substance of varying quality – nothing like solid gold, but nonetheless valuable.

At 460 metres (1,500 feet) above sea level, things went wrong. The No. 2 engine whined, cut out and fell off the left wing altogether. The plane banked right to return to the airstrip, but the other three engines couldn't support the weight, sending it crashing onto a sandbar along the raging Iskut River, not far from the mine, on Aug. 14, 1996. The pilot's body was never recovered, while the two other crew members made it to shore.

So began a mystery of a doomed B.C. plane and its load of gold, a tale emerging again after the plane reappeared – empty. Barrick Gold, which had since bought up the smaller outfit that owned the now-closed mine, rushed to the remote crash site and, this week, reported that the plane had already been stripped clean. The company does not know where the gold is.
Shortly after the crash, the Transportation Safety Board conducted an investigation, which essentially ruled the tragedy bad luck – the 51-year-old plane wasn't overloaded and had been properly maintained. But all the TSB could examine was one wing and the No. 2 engine, found four kilometres away. By the time inspectors had arrived, the wreckage was buried by sand and water in the fast-moving river, entombed.

That is, until early last fall, when the shifting sands of the river lifted the plane into sight again. Work crews in the remote area noticed it in late September.

"I knew right away which aircraft it was, and whose it was originally," recalled Dave Yeager, a geologist who flew over the wreckage while working with a company now called SnipGold Corp. The plane appeared heavily damaged, most of its paint stripped off. The large industrial bags of gold come with opened tops, and might have been washed clean by the fast-moving water.
"More and more of the plane got exposed as time went on," Mr. Yeager said, adding people in the area all knew about the crash, and would know what had been on board. Rumours began to spread that a local trapper had first noticed the plane had resurfaced from the sandbar, and had begun hauling out gold concentrate, bit by bit. "It became lore, yeah. There were those who knew, and I mean it was a remote area," Mr. Yeager said.

Word spread, and reached Barrick Gold, the world's largest gold mining company that had bought up the smaller outfit. There had been other crashes in the area, and the company wasn't sure at first it was even the same DC-4 – or what might be on board the plane. But it was racing weather as winter bore down. By Nov. 5, two days after it received word, a Barrick crew was on the ground at the remote crash site near the Bronson Creek in northwest B.C. It was the same plane.
Someone had beat them to it.

"Upon examination, it became apparent that the roof of the aircraft had been cut off using professional tools and that there was no remaining cargo in the hold. There was evidence that the aircraft had been tied to a tree following the crash," spokesman Andy Lloyd said this week in an e-mailed statement.

"Piecing the story together from accounts of parties that were in the area at the time and subsequent reports, we believe mine personnel salvaged the cargo of gold concentrate and the avionics at the time of the crash."

Of the old company, Homestake Canada, stripped the plane, it did so before the TSB had a chance to inspect it. Barrick's account is also at odds with that of Air North Ltd., a Whitehorse-based airline that owned the plane. Owner Joe Sparling sold the salvage rights, but declines to say who bought them – only that, well after Barrick visited to find the plane stripped and emptied of gold, the salvager hadn't gone to the site. "Salvage guy has not been able to access the aircraft yet," Mr. Sparling said in an e-mail this spring.

According to Barrick this week, there's nothing left to salvage. Several industrial-sized bags of concentrate, roughly 3,000 pounds each, are gone. Barrick declines to estimate the value, saying it's "difficult to extrapolate exactly how much gold was contained in this concentrate." Mr. Yeager describes concentrate as similar to powdered cement. The price of gold, however, is four times what it was at the time of the crash.

Nearby Mounties say they haven't been called, Barrick considers it case closed and Mr. Sparling has remained tight-lipped. The TSB report, meanwhile, never speculated on what happened to the gold. All that remains is the wreckage, its paint stripped, its top pried open and its cargo hold empty – the Iskut River raging around it.

dc 4 carrying 16000 pounds of gold concentrate.JPG

river.JPG

Did some one get lucky Or was it washed out of the wreck ?

This is just one of many stories of missing gold in regards to aircraft.

Crow
 

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Crow

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But here is a bit of detective work.

For example the claims that the aircraft had 16600 pounds of concentrate that is roughly 8.3 tons. The cargo capacity of a DC-4 was about 6.44 tons. Another factor Gold concentrate is normally known as black sands to produce low amount of gold content. If you had 1 ounce per ton of ore they is generally known has a high gold value for that type of ore. Well the total gold content would be about 8 ounces hardly worth the expense for flying it out to process? So for me some thing was going on back in 1996. An insurance scam? Some thing smells fishy and its not last nights curry.:dontknow:

Crow
 

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releventchair

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An account of pioneering handgun hunter Al Goerg 's death in a plane crash in Alaska 1965 had interesting salvage notes.
Seems once reported and investigated by an authority ,anything remaining was fair game.
The trick being , knowing if the wreck had been reported and investigated.

While much was not recovered. Much was too ,as far as explaining what had been going on.

One of his rifles had been salvaged , taken to a gunsmith for service and through an article in an outdoors magazine soliciting info ...The man who had it turned it in to an authority about the time authorities were finding him out.
It was deemed no crime. And the widow had another "relic" so to speak.
 

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Real of Tayopa

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get crow to tell you of when he woke up with a hangover to find himself (nude) on his bed in the middle of the main thorogh far for the town. " white mans thing" he, he, he. Why I love him and the horrlble crew, plus while I never reached New Guinea, but did the Solomons Jack London did, center for his stories which I devoured as a kiddie. If he doesn't tell you of more of his stories I will as handed down by Kanaci and others.
 

Loke

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Gidday Loke some things are better left unsaid. Some times history totally forgets things. And to some that is a tactical advantage to take advantage of.8-)

Here is another quick yarn for you. Not exactly a DC 3 but a DC4

The flight began uneventfully, with the hulking DC-4 propeller plane, loaded down with gold, rising up from a remote airstrip near a northern B.C. mine.It was headed to nearby Alaska where its 16,600 pounds of gold concentrate would be processed. It's a coarse, grainy substance of varying quality – nothing like solid gold, but nonetheless valuable.

At 460 metres (1,500 feet) above sea level, things went wrong. The No. 2 engine whined, cut out and fell off the left wing altogether. The plane banked right to return to the airstrip, but the other three engines couldn't support the weight, sending it crashing onto a sandbar along the raging Iskut River, not far from the mine, on Aug. 14, 1996. The pilot's body was never recovered, while the two other crew members made it to shore.

So began a mystery of a doomed B.C. plane and its load of gold, a tale emerging again after the plane reappeared – empty. Barrick Gold, which had since bought up the smaller outfit that owned the now-closed mine, rushed to the remote crash site and, this week, reported that the plane had already been stripped clean. The company does not know where the gold is.
Shortly after the crash, the Transportation Safety Board conducted an investigation, which essentially ruled the tragedy bad luck – the 51-year-old plane wasn't overloaded and had been properly maintained. But all the TSB could examine was one wing and the No. 2 engine, found four kilometres away. By the time inspectors had arrived, the wreckage was buried by sand and water in the fast-moving river, entombed.

That is, until early last fall, when the shifting sands of the river lifted the plane into sight again. Work crews in the remote area noticed it in late September.

"I knew right away which aircraft it was, and whose it was originally," recalled Dave Yeager, a geologist who flew over the wreckage while working with a company now called SnipGold Corp. The plane appeared heavily damaged, most of its paint stripped off. The large industrial bags of gold come with opened tops, and might have been washed clean by the fast-moving water.
"More and more of the plane got exposed as time went on," Mr. Yeager said, adding people in the area all knew about the crash, and would know what had been on board. Rumours began to spread that a local trapper had first noticed the plane had resurfaced from the sandbar, and had begun hauling out gold concentrate, bit by bit. "It became lore, yeah. There were those who knew, and I mean it was a remote area," Mr. Yeager said.

Word spread, and reached Barrick Gold, the world's largest gold mining company that had bought up the smaller outfit. There had been other crashes in the area, and the company wasn't sure at first it was even the same DC-4 – or what might be on board the plane. But it was racing weather as winter bore down. By Nov. 5, two days after it received word, a Barrick crew was on the ground at the remote crash site near the Bronson Creek in northwest B.C. It was the same plane.
Someone had beat them to it.

"Upon examination, it became apparent that the roof of the aircraft had been cut off using professional tools and that there was no remaining cargo in the hold. There was evidence that the aircraft had been tied to a tree following the crash," spokesman Andy Lloyd said this week in an e-mailed statement.

"Piecing the story together from accounts of parties that were in the area at the time and subsequent reports, we believe mine personnel salvaged the cargo of gold concentrate and the avionics at the time of the crash."

Of the old company, Homestake Canada, stripped the plane, it did so before the TSB had a chance to inspect it. Barrick's account is also at odds with that of Air North Ltd., a Whitehorse-based airline that owned the plane. Owner Joe Sparling sold the salvage rights, but declines to say who bought them – only that, well after Barrick visited to find the plane stripped and emptied of gold, the salvager hadn't gone to the site. "Salvage guy has not been able to access the aircraft yet," Mr. Sparling said in an e-mail this spring.

According to Barrick this week, there's nothing left to salvage. Several industrial-sized bags of concentrate, roughly 3,000 pounds each, are gone. Barrick declines to estimate the value, saying it's "difficult to extrapolate exactly how much gold was contained in this concentrate." Mr. Yeager describes concentrate as similar to powdered cement. The price of gold, however, is four times what it was at the time of the crash.

Nearby Mounties say they haven't been called, Barrick considers it case closed and Mr. Sparling has remained tight-lipped. The TSB report, meanwhile, never speculated on what happened to the gold. All that remains is the wreckage, its paint stripped, its top pried open and its cargo hold empty – the Iskut River raging around it.

View attachment 1824374

View attachment 1824375

Did some one get lucky Or was it washed out of the wreck ?

This is just one of many stories of missing gold in regards to aircraft.

Crow

Thank you, Crow - thoroughly enjoyed your story!
 

Crow

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Hello Don Jose Amigo

Yeah yeah they got me! vengeance for all the practical jokes I pulled om them.

I was asleep on the couch after heavy night boozing. Some time between 3am and daybreak they carried the couch and myself and paced it on the roundabout. I have good authority that they was busted by the local police who saw it as so funny that they helped them place me and the couch on the round about. I awoke having my manhood being prodded with stick by 3 giggling native women. Had to do the walk of shame...Back to the house :tongue3:

Loke I am glad you liked the story. One of many.....

Here is one Hardlluck unearthed in 2009

Daily Mercury  Tuesday 4 June 1946, page 1.jpg

Here is example of a treasure story with an almost impossible chance of recovery. Interesting all the same.

In 1945 a gold shipment on a Dc 3 flying from Monrovia Liberia to Accra Ghana disappeared. There was a massive ground sea and air search for this missing aircraft. However due to the times and no knowledge of where the aircraft with 15 passengers went down, finding out where the place crashed on its 700 mile journey is looking for the proverbial needle in a hay stack.

Speculations range from a crash site some where in the jungle clad mountains in southern Liberia or north western Ghana. The British Army in such a large area to search finally gave up on finding the air craft with its gold shipment.To this day there has never been any evidence of any parts of the aircraft turning up, passengers or any of the gold. It is as if the plane flew into oblivion.

Perhaps one day some lucky discoverer will find the wreckage on some remote mountain jungle? But for now it is one of those unsolvable mysteries.

The aircraft was a C-47B. The serial number was 43-49262. The MACR lists as having been on board. What follows is from a document in the file dated 13 December 1945. (There are some variations of spelling in some of the other documents, but this seems to be the most consistent and official). The numbers after the names appear to be the individuals service numbers. Note: there are 15 military and 2 civilians.

1st Lt Oliver K Morton 061566 Air Corps
F/O William K Jobe T 6173 Air Corps
1st Lt Bernard E Fielder 0931807 Air Corps
1st Lt Harrison E Squires 0707128
2nd Lt David E O'Calligan 02061170 Air Corps
Cpl Marlan J Reed 37538187 Air Corps
Cpl Samuel Mehrman 42000743 Air Corps
Cpl Samuel Klink 32912120 Air Corps
Sgt Seymour J Stanger 32866364 Air Corps
2nd Lt Walter H Nelson 0876335 Air Corps
Major Edward A Ciobban 0503275 FD
Capt William Moncrieff 0665218 Air Corps
1st Lt Henry Elvik 0854622 Air Corps
Capt John M Weaver 01280967 branch unknown
Cpl Milton S Tyler 37709612 branch unknown

Mr Homer C White, Courier Div, State Department
Mr T Katzenstein, affiliation unknown, passport number 91209 revenue ticket number X 395867 (other documents list his first name as Theodore).

The last two pages of the file include the next kin (with addresses) for the 15 military personnel.

The mystery remains where is the wreckage where is the gold and silver and what was in diplomatic pouches?

Crow






 

Crow

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Homer C. White, 39; December 4, 1945


White was one of 17 people on board a U.S. Army military transport aircraft that went missing after departing Roberts Field, Liberia, en route to Accra, Ghana (then known as Gold Coast in British West Africa). The 15 military members and two civilians aboard the Air Transport Command twin-engine C-47 aircraft were declared dead a year after their disappearance. An Army accident report said the aircrew never radioed to the first way station, Cape Palmas, Liberia, which should have taken place one-quarter of the way into the five-hour flight. From New Albany, Indiana, White was a postal clerk in Louisville, Kentucky, for 18 years. In World War II, he served as a captain in the U.S. Army Courier Service until his discharge in 1944. He then joined the Diplomatic Courier Service. In a letter shortly before his doomed flight, White wrote to the Louisville Courier Journal about listening to the 1945 World Series on shortwave radio broadcasts in the midst of his courier travels aboard Pan-Am clippers. An avid baseball fan, he described hearing the first game in Bermuda, games two through six while waiting out storms in the Azores from October 04–08, 1945, and game seven two days later, having just arrived at a U.S. Army camp outside of Dakar, Senegal. White was married with four children. He was posthumously awarded the Medal of Freedom.

homer c white.JPG

After the 1946 story all efforts ceased. The story of the lost C-47 faded into history and the families of the the victims was just listed as missing.... Along with gold and silver it was allegedly carrying?

Crow
 

Crow

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Hello Doc D Old Crow is home to roost these days. My wings have been clipped I have responsibilities these days. Although every now and again the old pirate comes out to play......:tongue3::laughing7:

Don Amigo Ahh the Love Tub a voyage even martin sheen would of been proud of! A real eye candy overdose! But alas all good things come to an end. I have you know I am a semi respectable pirate these days.....:laughing7::laughing7::laughing7:

Crow
 

Crow

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Gidday amigos what happened on the "tub" stays on the tub! And besides there has been more than enough about posted here previously.

I have a little more on this missing West Africa gold shipment in 1946 if ya all interested?

Crow
 

Crow

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Monrovia Hardluck found virtually had no port handling facilities at the time. So it much easy to fly the gold out on the monthly United state army flight from its base in Monrovia to Accra. Total production of gold from mining in 1945 was 30000 ounces. So based on the average amount of gold we are looking about 3.8 million dollars in to-days figures. This is just one of the many documents Hardluck obtained below.

report 3.JPG

Well Hardluck managed to get the official accident report and documents to areas that was search infarct there was about 4 searches no trace was found. But one key element in the report that when the aircraft was quarter of the way into its flight it was supposed to radio in as per standard procedure. So based on that premise the accident occurred before any transmission was made so it could in theory define an more confined search area. Also combined with the weather data.

weather (1).jpg

In the flight path around a quarter of journey the jungle is very thick so aircraft wreckage after any fires had burnt out might remain unseen to any search aircraft. However Hardluck managed to dig even further.

He managed to obtain from the badly national archive in Monrovia civil war from mold old type written police records. The Rural police reports dating back from from March 1946 claiming of reported explosion reported in early December 1945. Surprising it that survived 2 civil wars! The document tells of natives on a certain village Seiyu claimed they had heard an explosion. However the officer in charge in the nearest town Zwedru dismissed it was most likely thunder?

Since above weather report does mention possible thunder activity of the day of the flight. And the native inability pinpoint the exact date in early December?

The report was translated from the Native language of Cru. However there was doubts of the validity of the claim because search parties had instructed missionaries to tell the natives there was reward for any information leading to the discovery of wreckage. One of problems missionaries was over zealous in spreading information and every native chiefs was claiming some thing or other. So the who idea of fishing for information was seen as bad idea. However that report was from village that was roughly quarter of the way along the flight path. The search party did fly over the region but the jungle below virtually swallows everything.

However like all these projects the trio had learnt to weigh the viability of such a project. And the conclusion a joint coordinated effort was needed with various parties to make it possible. In 2009 it was just still too unstable to mount an operation. Although feelers was put out to possible collaborators inside the country. Alas our go to man with the contacts died of cancer. So the idea of developing a project further was put into mothballs.

Other more viable projects came up and that project seems most likely to never eventuate. Still perhaps one day the wreckage may be found if it has not already been plundered? Perhaps one day too the passengers and crew can be laid to rest also?

Crow
 

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Crow

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After 75 years there is no one alive connected to the accident and even working on the premise that an aircraft could be heard about 10 kilometers about 6.2 miles away the radius of search zone with still be 52 kilometers of jungle about 52 mile. And of course that figure might not take in considering radial piston engines that are a ugly grunty beast....:laughing7:

1945 FLIGHT PATH AND POSSIBLE 52 KILLOMETER SEARCH AREA.JPG

However even locality and settlement is not accurately placed on google earth the settlement sits a little more east of where they have placed the name. The settlement is like grouping of grass huts surrounded by jungle. However there is possibility if the natives have Aluminum pots and pans they might of been recycled from crashed DC 3 parts salvage from a wreck in the jungle. In Africa poverty is so severe even wreck aircraft can be recycle to make things such as kitchen ware. If cooking ware used by native living very basic out of the monetary system in this village Seiyu could be an indicator that wreck is near in jungle somewhere?

SEYITU.JPG

Regardless as stated still a proverbial needle in a haystack.....

DC 3 1946.jpg

Still the mind boggles what if.............

Crow
 

Real of Tayopa

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Hi Crow, say hello to hardtack for me. As far as the other's of the unholy trio, goes, I am in contast with Kanack I appologise for bring up Kanackies Tall ship stories, but I am curious, what did you find at the waterfall.?. .
 

Crow

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Hi Crow, say hello to hardtack for me. As far as the other's of the unholy trio, goes, I am in contast with Kanack I appologise for bring up Kanackies Tall ship stories, but I am curious, what did you find at the waterfall.?. .

Hola Don Jose Amigo! find at the waterfall?

Like all brethren of coast knows.....Some times amigo Its better for Raggedy Old Pirates to say nothing at all? Perhaps there was some thing there? Perhaps there wasn't? Which is less incriminating that way.:dontknow: :tongue3: However I will leave you decide amigo to read between the lines.....8-)

Crow
 

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Crow

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Hello Don Jose I will pass on your Hello to Hardluck.The trio has good title for you as refer you as the God father of treasure hunting...because of your longevity:tongue3: So I am indeed sure he will send his regards also.

Now just some thing else about the 1945 missing DC 3 west Africa story. The other civilian passenger?

His name is Theodore Katzestien a German Jew who fled Germany in 1933 and moved to New York. He was a CEO of a large chemical company and a fairly wealthy man. For example in 1940 he was living on 14th avenue New York renting an apartment there. What is interesting that we found records of him paying 80 dollars per month for the apartment. His years wages was 5000 dollars. Today that might seem pitiful because we have to look at medium wages for 1940 was 758 dollars per year. So he was earning 5 times more than the average person.Also his rent he was paying was more than the average persons yearly wage

THEODORE KATZONSTEIN SITE MANAGER MISSING IN 1945.JPG

I have records of this man as it appears he was business man roaming the world making deals supplying chemicals and after the Nazis took power he relocated to New York in 1933. So this company head must of had some major importance to travel freely in 1945 just after the war. So it makes one wonder how important he was being a civilian to travel on a military transport? Was he accompanying a retrial of gold and silver as payment for mercury supplies to mines in Liberia?

So you see there is still many unanswered questions......Yet interesting for those with a nose that likes to dig into history....

There are treasure legends will take you on a amazing journey through history though the lives of people one one has hardly ever heard of. Many such treasure stories turn out for one reason or another not a viable project. However there are some stories researched to a point that discretion can be a virtue. While each viable story has its own complexities especially in regards to laws in various countries in which discretion is very much an essential obligation.

As our esteemed friend Don Jose has found out himself there is more to than just finding a lost mine or treasure. Depending on the size or situation some small things can disappear of course but larger treasures or lost mines or shipwrecks can have complex issues to deal with.....

Now avast ye that dead beat of skipper Kanacki is holding out in style in some uninhabited islands in eastern Indonesia sitting out the Corona virus outbreak in isolation. Anchored in a secret sheltered bay. Diving fishing having barbcues on the beach without a care in the world.

Once again my apologies Don Amigo for high jacking this thread like the beach bum pirate I am as I only dropped in to say hello to ya all . I have family duties now and I am almost respectable......Errrrr I did say almost?

And besides I cannot get that blowhard Kanacki have all the fun.:laughing7:

Look after ya selves with this Corona Virus...er wasn't that a beer we used to drink???? :tongue3: Anyway take care all and stay safe....

Cheerrs Crow.
 

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releventchair

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(I see HardLuck kicked the topic around in the open a decade ago , and so toss stuff out that may relate. Less odds of a knock on my door that way than if it had not been out in the open. )

Daily News New York Tuesday Feb, 19th 1946 ,relatives wanted a plane crash looked into. IF the same crash ,it might lead to relatives, or background info...
Some one must have known what he was doing. Employer or family perhaps..
 

tintin_treasure

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Hello Crow! Hello Everyone! Long time,,,

Today I thought to myself, let me check the forum as there could be some yarn to ponder in this lock down...and to my delight I saw old Crow with his captivating yarns..Thanks Crow..i liked the west African yarn quite well..hope you and the trio have been doing great over the past years...In past years, whenever i hear about a treasure discovery on the news, i would say "maybe it is trio behind the scenes" ,,8-)

Hope everyone is safe

TT


Hello Don Jose I will pass on your Hello to Hardluck.The trio has good title for you as refer you as the God father of treasure hunting...because of your longevity:tongue3: So I am indeed sure he will send his regards also.

Now just some thing else about the 1945 missing DC 3 west Africa story. The other civilian passenger?

His name is Theodore Katzestien a German Jew who fled Germany in 1933 and moved to New York. He was a CEO of a large chemical company and a fairly wealthy man. For example in 1940 he was living on 7th avenue New York renting an apartment there. What is interesting that we found records of him paying 80 dollars per month for the apartment. His years wages was 5000 dollars. Today that might seem pitiful because we have to look at medium wages for 1940 was 758 dollars per year. So he was earning 5 times more than the average person.Also his rent he was paying was more than the average persons yearly wage

View attachment 1825557

I have records of this man as it appears he was business man roaming the world making deals supplying chemicals and after the Nazis took power he relocated to New York in 1933. So this company head must of had some major importance to travel freely in 1945 just after the war. So it makes one wonder how important he was being a civilian to travel on a military transport? Was he accompanying a retrial of gold and silver as payment for mercury supplies to mines in Liberia?

So you see there is still many unanswered questions......Yet interesting for those with a nose that likes to dig into history....

There are treasure legends will take you on a amazing journey through history though the lives of people one one has hardly ever heard of. Many such treasure stories turn out for one reason or another not a viable project. However there are some stories researched to a point that discretion can be a virtue. While each viable story has its own complexities especially in regards to laws in various countries in which discretion is very much an essential obligation.

As our esteemed friend Don Jose has found out himself there is more to than just finding a lost mine or treasure. Depending on the size or situation some small things can disappear of course but larger treasures or lost mines or shipwrecks can have complex issues to deal with.....

Now avast ye that dead beat of skipper Kanacki is holding out in style in some uninhabited islands in eastern Indonesia sitting out the Corona virus outbreak in isolation. Anchored in a secret sheltered bay. Diving fishing having barbcues on the beach without a care in the world.

Once again my apologies Don Amigo for high jacking this thread like the beach bum pirate I am as I only dropped in to say hello to ya all . I have family duties now and I am almost respectable......Errrrr I did say almost?

And besides I cannot get that blowhard Kanacki have all the fun.:laughing7:

Look after ya selves with this Corona Virus...er wasn't that a beer we used to drink???? :tongue3: Anyway take care all and stay safe....

Cheerrs Crow.
 

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