My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

Charlie P. (NY)

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There always exists a possibility you will be killed by a meteor as you sleep.

But only one way to verify it.
 

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I hope I live long enough to make you eat all of your post.
What is never mentioned in these Templar treasure tales can be summed up by Brian Dunning's Match 2016 statement:
"To accept today's conspiracy theories claiming that there are hidden Templar treasures of tremendous value is to suggest that personal and commercial fortunes were simply abandoned willingly on the early 1300's".
The Templar's wealth was from their banking loan activities, where they held collateral paper on nobles estates including King Phillip of France, who all defaulted on their loans from the Templars.
There are NO period Medieval records of vast amounts of gold and silver assets disappearing from France when de Chalons claimed 18 galleys set to sea from La Rochelle.
Banking activities and life continued on as normal in 1300's France after this alleged dispatcher of Templars on the run.
 

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The voyage did occur, Templars did land on Oak Island, the coconut coir is proof of that...
The coconut coir samples prove absolutely nothing on how or by whom they were deposited in Oak Island. 'Nuff Said.
One needs to produced real Medieval documents that such a Templar voyage to Oak Island/Nova Scotia actually occurred.
But You know and Franklin knows, and I and other know, period collaboration documents do not exist.
 
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lokiblossom

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I drive a GMC Acadia...was it built by Templars?

Dan Brown is a novelist - a writer of FICTION...he states so himself. He admits that he writes his fiction in such a way as to create controversy=publicity=sales, and intentionally includes a "bibliography" and allusions to "truthfulness" in his novels' Forewards and Acknowledgements. (One "bibliography" listed "'The Necronomicon', by A. Azred" as a "source"). His description of the Grail is drawn from ANOTHER fictional fantasy, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" written in 1982, the authors of which (Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln) admit that it was "all conjecture and circumstantial".

You are correct and win a prize. Indeed Dan Brown wrote a fictional novel based on some related beliefs either rational or not. That was my point in writing that he had the correct definition of the Holy Grail accidentally or otherwise. He did not have the correct hiding place of the Grail, that is in Nova Scotia near Annapolis Basin, a site I claim to have visited in 2009.

You will find if you do the research that some fiction is actually rooted in truth, sometimes the author knows this and sometimes he/she doesn't.

Cheers, Loki
 
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ECS

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... I do know from where it came on the Templar voyage to what is now North America in 1308!
...and HOW do you know this to be able to state it as fact?
...or is this some of that fiction actually rooted in truth that you mentioned?
...or is this truth actually rooted in fiction?
 

Charlie P. (NY)

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If you get right down to semantics - "knowledge" or to "know" does not actually mean truth or grasp of the facts.

knowl·edge

/ˈnäləj/

noun


  • 1.
    facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.

{ my underlines }

So, yes, Loki can know something but that does not mean he is correct. Loki knows his hypothesis inside and out. But it's still just a hypothesis.
 
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lokiblossom

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So, yes, Loki can know something but that does not mean he is correct. Loki knows his hypothesis inside and out. But it's still just a hypothesis.

Thats a good point Charlie and that can be true in some respects.

and as for your statement "But it's still just a hypothesis", would apply to you and yours! Btw, no sarcasm intended.

Cheers, Loki
 

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There are gravestones in Scotland that are unabashedly Templar. Thought I'd mention that as folks seem to want to dismiss all things Templar. One thing that is beyond a doubt is that the Templars were never dissolved in Portugal. The king just changed their name to the Order of Christ. And we also know for a fact that certain explorers were members of that order. So I fail to see why Templars having sailed here is not a possibility. The Corte Reals were members of the Order and they were here. Essentially they were just Templars of a different name. It is not at all unreasonable to presupposed trans-Atlantic contact hundreds of years earlier than previously surmised. Heck, the Basques were fishing here before it was officially "explored". This land was known for much longer than what we used to be taught in school.
 
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lokiblossom

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There are gravestones in Scotland that are unabashedly Templar. Thought I'd mention that as folks seem to want to dismiss all things Templar. One thing that is beyond a doubt is that the Templars were never dissolved in Portugal. The king just changed their name to the Order of Christ. And we also know for a fact that certain explorers were members of that order. So I fail to see why Templars having sailed here is not a possibility. The Corte Reals were members of the Order and they were here. Essentially they were just Templars of a different name. It is not at all unreasonable to presupposed trans-Atlantic contact hundreds of years earlier than previously surmised. Heck, the Basques were fishing here before it was officially "explored". This land was known for much longer than what we used to be taught in school.


Excellent post rowanns. It is certainly true that the Order of Christ was responsible for the first great wave of sea going explorations with the old Templar red cross on their sails. And yes there is evidence of Templar graves in Scotland. Where a branch of my family is from near Connel, at Ardchatten, there are several grave slabs that seem to be Templar, Ardchattan housing a sister order to the Templars own Cistercian's. The quality of stone carvings show a marked improvement after the 13th century when it is assumed many of the Templar stone masons had fled to Scotland.

Cheers, Loki
 

ECS

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Loki, You would be correct.
The first recorded Knights Templar ship came to Oak Island in 1179.
If Loki is correct, where is the recorded document that verifies this 1179 Templar voyage to Oak Island?
So far , NO credited document exists that supports all these various claims of Templar voyages beyond a lot of unrelated scattered evidence with unfounded and undocumented conclusions wrapped around coconut coir samples found on Oak Island lacking a chain of evidence provenance which does not form any kind of a sound or coherent theory.
As with the Zeno "Zichmni/Sinclair" 1875 nonsense of Richard Henry Major championed by Thomas Sinclair who claimed that his ancestor claimed North America for Orkney in the 1400's, to statements that the Romans had a settlement in the American Western States between 800-700 BCE, is just fabricated pseudohistory lacking even minimal validated verification from contemporary period documents or acceptance from the academic lettered community of professional historical researchers and scholars, who I might add, cite sources and actual proven documentation when asked.

If one is going to claim information presented is correct, why not cite the source that proves it true, and not just imaginative cryptohistory musings of " I know something that none of you do, including all the historians that got it wrong".
Fiction from fiction, even cooked with minimal fact stirred in, still creates a fictional pot of stew. Bon Appetit.
 
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lokiblossom

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If Loki is correct, where is the recorded document that verifies conclusions wrapped around coconut coir samples found on Oak Island lacking a chain of evidence provenance which does not form any kind of a sound or coherent theory.

If one is going to claim information presented is correct, why not cite the source that proves it true,

Coconut Coir was used in the Eastern Mediterranean during the period of the Crusade's for ships riggings, and any other use's onboard or other that would replace European hemp. The reason was that "coir" was readily available through trade overland with Indian merchants. This is common knowledge that anybody can read in a short google search.

Any other vessels "based" in the Eastern Mediterranean for any length of time would have also used "coir" as that was what was available, also common knowledge.

The Knights Templars were based in the Eastern Mediterranean for over 200 years with their own Eastern Mediterranean fleet.

In 1306 the Master of the Order was ordered to France from the Templar base on Cyprus to meet with Pope Clement V , a voyage which he made in the spring of 1307 along with 60 knights, their horses, squires, equipment and a lot of gold and silver. All Templar historians mention this voyage.

I premise that they landed in La Rochelle on the Atlantic Coast because this is the one port they completely controlled, and they were not welcome in their other major port of Marseilles. But, and this is very important, although La Rochelle would have been more convenient, whichever port they used does not make much difference to my premise.

Also at La Rochelle they kept most of their commercial vessels, well away from the war zones of the Mediterranean, this I have shown proof of many times.

Knowing of the troubles brewing because Philip IV had sent out his orders a month ahead of time and that they had lost favor in France because of recent lost battles in Outremer they would not have unloaded their vessels preparing for a possible escape.

Sometime before their arrests of October 13th all of the vessels left port, including those commercial ships at La Rochelle, never to be seen again. There is no record of where any of them went.

In the late 1970's Coconut Coir was discovered on Oak Island as identified by one of the most renown botanists of the day in 1976 and later by several others. With several scientific datings the coir was determined to be in from the 12th to 14th century, a period well before any actual recorded European exploration, unless you consider the Viking voyages, which would have been still going on in the early 14th century, as recorded exploration's. As a matter of fact one Viking voyage to Greenland is known to have taken place in 1308.

As there is no other record of anybody with vessels leaving the Eastern Mediterranean and then with those same vessels leaving a French port during the time period required by the dating of the coconut coir found on Oak Island, I posit, "the Knights Templars, in attempting to escape French authorities, sailed their vessels out of French ports before the October 13th arrests, with some going to a friendly Portugal, some to an equally friendly Scotland, and a few following the well established Viking routes, sailed on to what would become North America, landing, at least for some period on a hidden little island in a hidden bay, Oak Island, in Mahone Bay."

Cheers, Loki
 
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DaveVanP

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Thats a good point Charlie and that can be true in some respects.

and as for your statement "But it's still just a hypothesis", would apply to you and yours! Btw, no sarcasm intended.

Cheers, Loki

To "KNOW" something, one relies on facts...Hard, undeniable, documented, proven FACTS.

No matter how you cut it, if based on a hypothesis the best you can do is "ASSUME" (or "PREsume" if you wish).
 

ECS

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... There is no record of where any of them went...
That, my friend Loki, is the bottom line heart of the matter of these "missing" Templar galleys.
Without any hard contemporary Medieval period recorded documentation, all the random scattered alleged evidence linked together to form a flawed chain of irreverent "facts" including the constantly quoted coir dating test, provide absolutely no coherent logical foundation for a premise concerning Templar voyages to North America.

There are contemporary Medieval reports of the Templars of which you are aware that state that some joined other orders or discarded their red cross tunics and plied their skills as tradesmen or mercenaries as noted in Swiss history, but none mention a treasure or assets being taken or hidden beyond banking financial records.
While there are records concerning "where they went", there are NO direct statements of where these de Chalons alleged 18 galleys docked at La Rochelle, "WENT", if they were actually there at the time mentioned.
 
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lokiblossom

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That, my friend Loki, is the bottom line heart of the matter of these "missing" Templar galleys.
Without any hard contemporary Medieval period recorded documentation, all the random scattered alleged evidence linked together to form a flawed chain of irreverent "facts" including the constantly quoted coir dating test, provide absolutely no coherent logical foundation for a premise concerning Templar voyages to North America.

There are contemporary Medieval reports of the Templars of which you are aware that state that some joined other orders or discarded their red cross tunics and plied their skills as tradesmen or mercenaries as noted in Swiss history, but none mention a treasure or assets being taken or hidden beyond banking financial records.
While there are records concerning "where they went", there are NO direct statements of where these se Chalons alleged 18 galleys docked at La Rochelle, "WENT", if they were actually there at the time mentioned.

Lol, I just showed you that some of them went to Oak Island and left some "coconut coir"! :icon_thumleft:

Btw, I also mentioned that de Chalons or the La Rochelle galleys as a premise are not necessary to the evidence, although, of course I do premise that de Villers did command the few vessels that left La Rochelle and eventually sailed to Nova Scotia. :thumbsup:

Cheers, Loki
 
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lokiblossom

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To "KNOW" something, one relies on facts...Hard, undeniable, documented, proven FACTS.

No matter how you cut it, if based on a hypothesis the best you can do is "ASSUME" (or "PREsume" if you wish).

Oh Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow's son?

Maybe the best you can do is assume, but to me it is a fact. Its interesting to me that you think some of the contrary information you have recently posted is "fact" and that what I post is only assumption!

Cheers, Loki
 

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Sometime before their arrests of October 13th all of the vessels left port, including those commercial ships at La Rochelle, never to be seen again. There is no record of where any of them went.

Cheers, Loki

All that's left, to give ANY credence to your hypothesis (and possibly allow it to progress to "theory") is to be able to do one of the following:

1. PROVE they DIDN'T sink after leaving La Rochelle, which therefore supports the hypothesis they went SOMEWHERE. Fleets of 20+ ships have been lost with no trace, in those times; it was almost an expected outcome, in fact.
NEXT STEP:

2. PROVE (un-ambiguous artifacts, contemporary documentation) that the Templar vessels arrived in the New World in that time frame.

Obviously, #2 will completely validate #1... but not vice-verse.
 
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lokiblossom

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All that's left, to give ANY credence to your hypothesis (and possibly allow it to progress to "theory") is to be able to do one of the following:

1. PROOVE they DIDN'T sink after leaving La Rochelle, which therefore supports the hypothesis they went SOMEWHERE. Fleets of 20+ ships have been lost with no trace, in those times; it was almost an expected outcome, in fact.
NEXT STEP:

2. PROOVE (un-ambiguous artifacts, contemporary documentation) that the Templar vessels arrived in the New World in that time frame.

Obviously, #2 will completely validate #1... but not vice-verse.

I don't have to do any of that! The dated coconut coir that only they could have brought from the Eastern Mediterranean during the correct time period proves (at least to an unbiased observer) they didn't sink, and that a few Templar vessels arrived in the "so-called" New World in that time frame.

Cheers, Loki
 

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Lol, I just showed you that some of them went to Oak Island and left some "coconut coir"! :icon_thumleft:

Btw, I also mentioned that de Chalons or the La Rochelle galleys as a premise are not necessary to the evidence, although, of course I do premise that "de" Chalons did command the few vessels that left La Rochelle and eventually sailed to Nova Scotia. :thumbsup:
It is to be noted that Jean de Chalons remained in France after giving testimony de Villiers leading 50 horses and the hearsay of his "heard it said" that de Villiers set out to sea with 18 galleys.
Where have you shown that "some of them went to Oak Island and left some "coconut coir" and by "some", do you have names and an elaborate background tale like the fictional Henry Sinclair and the Templars tale?
All of your constantly posted coir dating test have NOT and will NOT prove that they were possessed by Templars.
 
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lokiblossom

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It is to be noted that Jean de Chalons remained in France after giving testimony de Villiers leading 50 horses and the hearsay of his "heard it said" that de Villiers set out to sea with 18 galleys.
Where have you shown that "some of them went to Oak Island and left some "coconut coir" and by "some", do you have names and an elaborate background tale like the fictional Henry Sinclair and the Templars tale?
All of your constantly posted coir dating test have NOT and will NOT prove that they were possessed by Templars.

I meant de Villers, my bad!

As for your last sentence, along with the fact the Templars were the only ones who used the "coir" with the possibility of making the trip during that period, imho it does!

Cheers, Loki
 
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