My Find Yesterday

LuckyLou78

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Aug 29, 2022
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Just as I was walking in 2 feet of water along the river to go home...I look down and saw what I believed to be a rubber bumper or plug Stuck in some weedy water. I was going to pass it up but something made me pick it up.

I plucked It out of the muck, flipped it over and did a double take on what was inside. Of course, the brain quickly thinks Nazi Germany. However, I know enough that it is not! My dog kept pulling me so I put it in my pocket and went to shore.

Knowing that this symbol was used by Native Americans, Navajo and Hopi...it was not German!

After more research, I believe that I found a souvenir piece possibly brought back to this area after traveling on the Santa Fe R&R, Chicago to LA line. Passenger probably purchased along this route at Harvey’s trading posts prior to 1940 (agreement not to use symbol signed by various tribes).

this Seems to be an ongoing thing with my coolest finds, they pop up when Im not actually searching! This is why I share my story. I have several similar Tales on my finds. It’s like the Native’s planted it there for me and me only to find at the right time! No detector, no magnet guided me...just the Spirits, legends and the people placed it in the hands of one whom appreciates their history and will help it survive.
 

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tamrock

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Jan 16, 2013
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Maybe an oil lamp? It does look like the spout end might be blackened by a wick burning. I do agree with your theory on it being a souvenir of the southwest. I have and still keep my eye open for original old Fred Harvey silver jewelry in my hunts of thrift stores and flea markets. I once found a Fred Harvey silver bracelet with the whirling logs symbol. It did well on ebay as there are collectors of these old pieces.
 

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Hunk-a-lead

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Dec 20, 2020
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Just as I was walking in 2 feet of water along the river to go home...I look down and saw what I believed to be a rubber bumper or plug Stuck in some weedy water. I was going to pass it up but something made me pick it up.

I plucked It out of the muck, flipped it over and did a double take on what was inside. Of course, the brain quickly thinks Nazi Germany. However, I know enough that it is not! My dog kept pulling me so I put it in my pocket and went to shore.

Knowing that this symbol was used by Native Americans, Navajo and Hopi...it was not German!

After more research, I believe that I found a souvenir piece possibly brought back to this area after traveling on the Santa Fe R&R, Chicago to LA line. Passenger probably purchased along this route at Harvey’s trading posts prior to 1940 (agreement not to use symbol signed by various tribes).

this Seems to be an ongoing thing with my coolest finds, they pop up when Im not actually searching! This is why I share my story. I have several similar Tales on my finds. It’s like the Native’s planted it there for me and me only to find at the right time! No detector, no magnet guided me...just the Spirits, legends and the people placed it in the hands of one whom appreciates their history and will help it survive.
wicked cool, good luck and the ID and gratz
 

Red-Coat

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Dec 23, 2019
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Neat, but I think you’ve found a Diya or Diwali lamp. Commonly used by Indians (Asian, not American) and others of Hindu and associated religions for various occasions, including the Festival of Lights. They're found all over the world, wherever immigrant communities exist.

Here’s a few examples. They’re usually terracotta or other ceramics and sometimes brass:

Diya.jpg Diya2.jpg Diya3.jpg
 

tamrock

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Jan 16, 2013
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Neat, but I think you’ve found a Diya or Diwali lamp. Commonly used by Indians (Asian, not American) and others of Hindu and associated religions for various occasions, including the Festival of Lights. They're found all over the world, wherever immigrant communities exist.

Here’s a few examples. They’re usually terracotta or other ceramics and sometimes brass:

View attachment 2044136 View attachment 2044137 View attachment 2044138
Yes to this. I no longer think native southwestern US, eventhough they did use this symbol.
 
OP
LuckyLou78

LuckyLou78

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Aug 29, 2022
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Neat, but I think you’ve found a Diya or Diwali lamp. Commonly used by Indians (Asian, not American) and others of Hindu and associated religions for various occasions, including the Festival of Lights. They're found all over the world, wherever immigrant communities exist.

Here’s a few examples. They’re usually terracotta or other ceramics and sometimes brass:

View attachment 2044136 View attachment 2044137 View attachment 2044138
Interesting. However, I do believe mine resembles more of Navajo/Hopi styling of vessels. Asian objects seem to be more ornate. mine Is more simplistic. I’m thinking it was made miniature for a souvenir. I’ve been looking up old Harvey catalogues. Found some postcards of trade posts.

look at the rim, vary characteristic of sw pottery.
I am aware of many ethnic groups that used this symbol.

more likely to be Native than Asian floating along a river in the Midwest, IMO.
 

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Red-Coat

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Interesting. However, I do believe mine resembles more of Navajo/Hopi styling of vessels. Asian objects seem to be more ornate. mine Is more simplistic. I’m thinking it was made miniature for a souvenir. I’ve been looking up old Harvey catalogues. Found some postcards of trade posts.

look at the rim, vary characteristic of sw pottery.
I am aware of many ethnic groups that used this symbol.

more likely to be Native than Asian floating along a river in the Midwest, IMO.

So, can you show us a Navajo/Hopi oil lamp which looks anything like what you found?

Diwali is a 5-day annual festival, celebrated by Hindus and others wherever they have settled. One of its traditions is that the lamps are set adrift in large groups down rivers and streams, so that's often where they are found.
 
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LuckyLou78

LuckyLou78

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Aug 29, 2022
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Also, could be red ware.
question? Can I cross-post this thread to the Identify it?
also, research is hard on Native whirling logs because they are banned from all museum displays! Such a shame! They were also removed from Harvey catalogues late 30’s.

you all may be right on Asian origins. im thinking SW tribe until proven wrong entirely. Sorry, I guess I prefer it to be Native American! Why? It’s just my area of interest, nothing more and nothing less. Gotta be PC these days. my post could be taken full of hate based on one symbol and now me preferring it not to be Asian!
 
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LuckyLou78

LuckyLou78

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Aug 29, 2022
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So, can you show us a Navajo/Hopi oil lamp which looks anything like what you found?

Diwali is a 5-day annual festival, celebrated by Hindus and others wherever they have settled. One of its traditions is that the lamps are set adrift in large groups down rivers and streams, so that's often where they are found.
searching, contacting, posting to prove my thoughts
im not a know it all. I just don’t agree. ill be the first to admit if I’m wrong.
 
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LuckyLou78

LuckyLou78

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Last thing, there is no sign of burning on bottom of pot Or rim. the Rim is darkened from sitting in sludge I think. Many objects I find in this water has same. I just haven’t cleaned it.

would it change your opinion if I shared more pottery/ceramics pieces I’ve found within 10 feet of this? i Was actually looking for more shards prior to picking this up.
 
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LuckyLou78

LuckyLou78

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Aug 29, 2022
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Maybe an oil lamp? It does look like the spout end might be blackened by a wick burning. I do agree with your theory on it being a souvenir of the southwest. I have and still keep my eye open for original old Fred Harvey silver jewelry in my hunts of thrift stores and flea markets. I once found a Fred Harvey silver bracelet with the whirling logs symbol. It did well on ebay as there are collectors of these old pie
You are right. Prob oil lamp. I’ll be damned. Asian or SW tribe? Still tbd.
I’ll be damned.
 

Red-Coat

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Dec 23, 2019
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Last thing, there is no sign of burning on bottom of pot Or rim. the Rim is darkened from sitting in sludge I think. Many objects I find in this water has same. I just haven’t cleaned it.

would it change your opinion if I shared more pottery/ceramics pieces I’ve found within 10 feet of this? i Was actually looking for more shards prior to picking this up.

I'm only offering my opinion, based on having seen a lot of these lamps from Hindu and associated cultures. I could be wrong too, but a proper identification will come from comparison with known items... and I've never seen a Native American tradition lamp which looks like yours.

By all means show other pottery found in close proximity, but that won't particularly change my opinion. When searching river mud deposits here, I might (and indeed have) recover a Roman floor tile, a Tudor token and a Dunlop golf ball within a few feet of one another... but that doesn't mean they're related. Only that rivers have a habit of depositing things in a jumble.
 

Digger RJ

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Just as I was walking in 2 feet of water along the river to go home...I look down and saw what I believed to be a rubber bumper or plug Stuck in some weedy water. I was going to pass it up but something made me pick it up.

I plucked It out of the muck, flipped it over and did a double take on what was inside. Of course, the brain quickly thinks Nazi Germany. However, I know enough that it is not! My dog kept pulling me so I put it in my pocket and went to shore.

Knowing that this symbol was used by Native Americans, Navajo and Hopi...it was not German!

After more research, I believe that I found a souvenir piece possibly brought back to this area after traveling on the Santa Fe R&R, Chicago to LA line. Passenger probably purchased along this route at Harvey’s trading posts prior to 1940 (agreement not to use symbol signed by various tribes).

this Seems to be an ongoing thing with my coolest finds, they pop up when Im not actually searching! This is why I share my story. I have several similar Tales on my finds. It’s like the Native’s planted it there for me and me only to find at the right time! No detector, no magnet guided me...just the Spirits, legends and the people placed it in the hands of one whom appreciates their history and will help it survive.
Very Cool!!! Congrats!!!
 

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