Need help with hallmark on old German Silver

snowdogg70

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I found this piece which I believe is Silver 75% but I don't know any thing about the hallmark . I'm thinking it's a fancy napkin holder? Also can any one translate? any help would be appreciated thanks
 

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tamrock

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Not a mark I recognize immediately, but what looks like an eagle motif might be early Mexican, but that's just a thought. The thing looks like pure silver in the picture to me. What about it is telling you it's German?
 
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snowdogg70

snowdogg70

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What about it is telling you it's German?
Well it's an old friend of the family who recently passed away and we are cleaning out his stuff. He is from Germany and had alot of items from Germany I guess I just assumed it was German writing on it
 

tamrock

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Well it's an old friend of the family who recently passed away and we are cleaning out his stuff. He is from Germany and had alot of items from Germany I guess I just assumed it was German writing on it
I think I'm wrong about it being an eagle. Is it a really small mark ?
 

callmez

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Looks like a napkin ring to me.

"Für" with the umlaut over the U does make one think German (= "for"), and the old silver standard in Germany was 12 loth which equates to 750 fine (75% silver), suggesting the 75 in the other mark. I think I see crossed swords below it.

Looking at this resource (www.830-1000.dk), I think you have the Leipzig city mark with the L at the bottom and the crossed swords above it, with 75 representing 75% silver instead of the 12 representing 12 loth, the old standard and the old system of identifying it. This would be prior to the new system implemented about 1886.

Are there any other markings?
 
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tamrock

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Very helpful callmez. It does look like what could be two crossed swords to me also. I've never come across this link you've provided before, which offers more information on earlier German marks. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
 
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callmez

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You're very welcome. I don't know much about European silver but have been interested in early American coin silver for some time. When I've run onto silver markings I am not familiar with, whatever their origin, I've found that they can often be identified with some creative searching. There are a couple of other sites that are very good for foreign silver markings, once you figure out the country of origin.
 

tamrock

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You're very welcome. I don't know much about European silver but have been interested in early American coin silver for some time. When I've run onto silver markings I am not familiar with, whatever their origin, I've found that they can often be identified with some creative searching. There are a couple of other sites that are very good for foreign silver markings, once you figure out the country of origin.
Early American is very rare to find in the areas I search. I have only found a few spoons, but once found a piece of early American with the name Wilson I believe it was. I did find they were brothers or maybe a father and sons, making silver in Philadelphia I think. It was a small cup for maybe sugar. I put it on ebay as I did with everything I was finding back then and it sold very well, but I do recall it was sold to a buyer with the address going to a department of Rutgers University. I no longer sell anything on ebay as it seems I've become a hoarder of the things I find interesting and under valued. I wished I'd kept that silver cup, because it was from the early 19th century.
 
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Red-Coat

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Well it's an old friend of the family who recently passed away and we are cleaning out his stuff. He is from Germany and had alot of items from Germany I guess I just assumed it was German writing on it

Looks like a napkin ring to me.

"Für" with the umlaut over the U does make one think German (= "for"), and the old silver standard in Germany was 12 loth which equates to 750 fine (75% silver), suggesting the 75 in the other mark. I think I see crossed swords below it.

Looking at this resource (www.830-1000.dk), I think you have the Leipzig city mark with the L at the bottom and the crossed swords above it, with 75 representing 75% silver instead of the 12 representing 12 loth, the old standard and the old system of identifying it. This would be prior to the new system implemented about 1886.

Are there any other markings?

Agree. For sure it’s German and has the Leipzig city mark (not a maker’s mark) for 750 fine silver, similar to this:

Leipzig.jpg


It will be before 1888, commensurate with the 1873 inscription. If there is a maker mark it will be elsewhere on the piece.

It does appear to be a napkin ring but, speculating (wildly), the personalised inscription suggests it was a gift of thanks or recognition of some kind and I wouldn’t rule out it having held a scroll, diploma or something of that kind. “Judica” means “Judge” in Latin (doesn’t mean anything in German) and Leipzig had a prestigious history in the German court system. It gained more votes than Berlin to become the home for the Imperial Court of Justice (the highest court in the German Empire) in 1877.

It's nice item.
 
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snowdogg70

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Thanks so much for all your help everyone
 

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