✅ SOLVED Need the gun experts to give me their thoughts.

pepperj

Gold Member
Feb 3, 2009
29,655
99,836
Detector(s) used
Deus, Deus 2, Minelab 3030, E-Trac,
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
I first dug the small ramrod holder, then the second one, then the trigger guard.
3 ft away out came the barrel.
So the tape measure photo is the 3 pieces.
The barrel is in the garage still.
Barrel is 39" long
Bore is 3/4"
The tang at the back of the barrel is 2"
This wasn't part of the 39"
It's all I have, don't know if there's anything else.
Heavy iron, dug other iron in a 10ft radius.
So any help would certainly be appreciated 👍
It's my first gun (well most of one)
20221105_202057.jpg
20221105_202018.jpg
20221104_165345.jpg
20221104_165330.jpg
20221104_155927.jpg
 
Last edited:

smokeythecat

Gold Member
Nov 22, 2012
20,436
39,877
Maryland
🥇 Banner finds
10
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
XP Deus II
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
My thoughts are a pre Civil War gun. It COULD go back as far as the Revolution. Those two brass cylinders were the ramrod guides. The model 1853 Enfield and the 1861 Springfield rifles had eliminated them, which was standard practice during the CW. The large bore size could be for a .69 caliber musket. It is quite possible it was used as a flintlock and converted to percussion. The lock plate and side plate are missing. They are probably close to where you found the other pieces.
 
Upvote 7
OP
pepperj

pepperj

Gold Member
Feb 3, 2009
29,655
99,836
Detector(s) used
Deus, Deus 2, Minelab 3030, E-Trac,
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #4
It looks like a shotgun barrel to me. There should be a percussion lock plate there.
Thanks for your insight AlabamaRelic
That was my first thought as well, but I'm a newb :dontknow:when it comes to things like this.
Yes it should be there somewhere-hopefully.
 
Upvote 1
OP
pepperj

pepperj

Gold Member
Feb 3, 2009
29,655
99,836
Detector(s) used
Deus, Deus 2, Minelab 3030, E-Trac,
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #5
My thoughts are a pre Civil War gun. It COULD go back as far as the Revolution. Those two brass cylinders were the ramrod guides. The model 1853 Enfield and the 1861 Springfield rifles had eliminated them, which was standard practice during the CW. The large bore size could be for a .69 caliber musket. It is quite possible it was used as a flintlock and converted to percussion. The lock plate and side plate are missing. They are probably close to where you found the other pieces.
Thank you for the information smokeythecat.
It's certainly a big bore barrel.
I'm thinking that I might have to make another road trip, and to start digging all the iron out of the spot.
Filled the pouch in no time but the day ended, and I had a 90 minute drive yet.
 
Upvote 3

releventchair

Gold Member
May 9, 2012
18,893
48,517
Primary Interest:
Other
Trigger guards can vary much!
But tended to be more uniform for production and military models.
Yours had a provision for a sling "bail".
Not knowing what sources guns came from in your region during given eras with any sureness...
I can only be sure sling attachments like your piece suggests was more a military design thing in my area. (Muskets come to mind.)
In which case it would be an interestingly older era...
There are other pictures below this Bess's guard. No I don't say yours is off a Bess.
But am showing how a hole in your guard was used.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 2

releventchair

Gold Member
May 9, 2012
18,893
48,517
Primary Interest:
Other
After looking at trigger guards, I've narrowed it down to possibly being a 3rd pattern Brown Bess trigger guard.

Picture of a sling attached to trigger guard sling swivel on my P1853 Snider-Enfield.

View attachment 2054124
3rd pattern Bess rear of trigger guard looks close to the o.p.'s..
Ramrod thimbles don't. (If for same gun.)
Bayonet lug/front sight on barrel close to a match.
 
Upvote 1

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
Still no thimble match.
Not saying I'm right or you're wrong, but we have to remember during this period musket parts got swapped around a lot. Broken stock, but hardware is good, swap into a good stock from a bad musket and modify it to fit. Viola a hodgepodge but functional musket. Unlike today's throw away generation.

Or we (Or just me) can be way off base and it's something else entirely!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 6

releventchair

Gold Member
May 9, 2012
18,893
48,517
Primary Interest:
Other
Not saying I'm right or you're wrong, but we have to remember during this period musket parts got swapped around a lot. Broken stock, but hardware is good, swap into a good stock from a bad musket and modify it to fit. Viola a hodgepodge but functional musket. Unlike today's throw away generation.

Or we (Or just me) can be way off base and it's something else entirely!
Oh , agreed.
Lock stock and barrel can be from multiple sources or donor guns. If the lock inletting area tolerates such .;multiple options exist. Even conversions.

Could just be a discarded lot of bits and pieces.
Metals and parts saved , till discarded for whatever reason.
Literal barrels of "obsolete" barrels were sold at times too!

I've not noticed hash marks on thimbles where they won't be seen when mounted.

Considering your tangible library vs mine , I'll grant any benefit of a doubt on military arms! (As usual.)

Musket seems a sure bet.
Region hints of steady more recent English influence. But French too , earlier.
Annd. We know people traveled far. Guns in hand.

A peek at a lock from that site would stimulate more speculation by me... If I haven't enough yet. L.o.l..
 
Upvote 2

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
I've gone through every rifle/musket/muzzleloader from the 1700s up to their demise that I can think of. So far Pattern 1853 Enfield and Brown Bess guns are the only ones I can see with that type of trigger guard sling swivel setup.

Most of the rifles of that period had the swivel attached to a "Nub" in front of the trigger guard, one or two behind the trigger guard versus the normal way in the front. I've looked at the most prevalent weapons that were in the US at the time. French, British, Spanish, American with no similarities in the trigger guards other then the P1853 and Brown Bess.

It's entirely possible that I'm missing something as I've become fixated on the Bess possibility.
 
Upvote 2

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
Still no thimble match.

Look at this picture, the OPs top thimble is broken as the tab is not centered, the bottom is a close match to the one in the middle, and the OP doesn't have the one on the bottom.

Leads more credence to the Brown Bess theory.

The bottom picture is of the thimbles from a Brown Bess.

20221106_184832.jpg


original-india-pattern-brown-bess_1_a2ea48e0f0772f57054fc42f63e16f3d.jpg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 4

releventchair

Gold Member
May 9, 2012
18,893
48,517
Primary Interest:
Other
Look at this picture, the OPs top thimble is most likely broken as the tab is not centered, the bottom is a close match to the one in the middle, and the OP doesn't have the one on the bottom.

The bottom picture is of the thimbles from a Brown Bess.

View attachment 2054189

View attachment 2054188

Broken or modified....
The top thimble you referred to as having tab located where it is , shows a cut )(?) on the opposite side from the tab/lug.( Near center in line with the hole in the tab above.)
But squinting prior hints of a flare on the left side I didn't see earlier. By looking at right side end of thimble and back to left side of thimble trying to compare end diameters.

If your good with Bess trigger guard , it's good enough for me. First type that came to mind for me. But wouldn't have wagered much on my guess.

Those thimbles seem repurposed from original use. Decorative or other use rings maybe.
To use the one (if that is a cut) to fit another arm that's a strange place to cut.
Might fit one more hole in the tab. But hitting it with a pin hole through a stocks side would take better skills than mine....(!)
 
Upvote 2

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
Broken or modified....
The top thimble you referred to as having tab located where it is , shows a cut )(?) on the opposite side from the tab/lug.( Near center in line with the hole in the tab above.)
But squinting prior hints of a flare on the left side I didn't see earlier. By looking at right side end of thimble and back to left side of thimble trying to compare end diameters.

If your good with Bess trigger guard , it's good enough for me. First type that came to mind for me. But wouldn't have wagered much on my guess.

Those thimbles seem repurposed from original use. Decorative or other use rings maybe.
To use the one (if that is a cut) to fit another arm that's a strange place to cut.
Might fit one more hole in the tab. But hitting it with a pin hole through a stocks side would take better skills than mine....(!)
Look forward to seeing if the OP finds anymore parts/pieces. I'm leaning towards a Brown Bess or parts from one at least.

But I've been wrong before or at least CINC Household reminds me of that daily.....LOL!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 1
OP
pepperj

pepperj

Gold Member
Feb 3, 2009
29,655
99,836
Detector(s) used
Deus, Deus 2, Minelab 3030, E-Trac,
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #17
Look at this picture, the OPs top thimble is broken as the tab is not centered, the bottom is a close match to the one in the middle, and the OP doesn't have the one on the bottom.

Leads more credence to the Brown Bess theory.

The bottom picture is of the thimbles from a Brown Bess.

View attachment 2054189

View attachment 2054188
You're correct on the one is broken.
Great discussion you guys are having.
Learning lots, as I'm missing the ramrod guide.
 
Upvote 4

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
Your Brown Bess (My opinion it is) started out as a flintlock musket like the second picture, and was converted to a percussion musket as seen in third and forth picture. The proof of this is the round protrusion (Drum) on the side of your barrel seen in the first picture.

Some had a round drum (Yours), some a snail drum and others a square drum.

As for additional metallic parts, you're short the buttplate, ram rod guide, trigger, sling swivels,, and lock plate assembly, side plate (From the left side), screws, pins, and possibly ram rod tip (Don't know if it had an all wooden one or if it had a metal tip). So there could be more parts scattered around the area. Would be interesting to see how much of it could be found.

20221104_165345.jpg

Brown-Bess,-3rd-Mod.-East-India_lock-plate_728-45.jpg
TA_Brown_Bess_Percussion_Musket-NMAH-AHB2015q114284.jpg

10762-CrownGR.jpg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 5

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top