Placing a value on the French monument removed by the Spanish and lost at Sea.

[Tom_Restorer]

GME doesn´t know the prices for bronze canons?! This is cute!

And btw. you didn´t metioned the size of the stone monument and the canons...

Anyway... this are pieces for auctions like Sothebys, Christies, Bonhams or much better Sedwick, who is specialized in maritime artifacts and who could give you immediatly a price estimation on such stuff!

To ask such questions in this forum real confuses me a little bit... If I would be a share holder..........

My humble opinion: Sell the canons and give this ugly stone monument to the gov., so they can rebuild the monument on the place were it was and for everyone to see! Would be also a GREAT advertisment for you company include TV shows etc. and it would show people that treasure hunters also can be good guys!

 

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[Tom_Restorer]

Remaining treasure left and value on otjer ships

Like we said before 1,000,000 each min, and the one 1548 should bring 3 mil alone

Seeker I am sure you read the court docs, please refer to my statement before when I said they where lieing or incompetent.
France has no case here,no proof and no experts that know what they are doing, GME's attorney just prooved it even though the burden of proof is on France.
But I am sure you knew that

Are this prices of a pharmacy store ??
2000 $ for an atocha coin and 76.000 for a silver bar ? Now I know how people counting themself rich. LOL
I guess the stock market bubbles work the same way :-)
But a good way to keep the busines in family! Their descendents can sell the stuff still in 3000 years !!
ONLY the auktions show us exactly the real value for this pieces and they are much much lower!

 

[Black Duck]

GME doesn´t know the prices for bronze canons?! This is cute!

And btw. you didn´t metioned the size of the stone monument and the canons...

Anyway... this are pieces for auctions like Sothebys, Christies, Bonhams or much better Sedwick, who is specialized in maritime artifacts and who could give you immediatly a price estimation on such stuff!

To ask such questions in this forum real confuses me a little bit... If I would be a share holder..........

My humble opinion: Sell the canons and give this ugly stone monument to the gov., so they can rebuild the monument on the place were it was and for everyone to see! Would be also a GREAT advertisment for you company include TV shows etc. and it would show people that treasure hunters also can be good guys!

How many autions have you done there TR.
Every found a cannon from 1548 ? Or a priceless piece of history before ?, So yes GME is asking to see if someone could have shedded some light on this,but mostly we get negitive stuff like this from people like you, and we did figure out a number, in fact it is in the court records now $60,000,000 for what we have found so far

And if someone out there is an expert with refernce please add to this if not your opinion dosent matter

Thanks for bringing this up

 

[Tom_Restorer]

How many autions have you done there TR.
Every found a cannon from 1548 ? Or a priceless piece of history before ?, So yes GME is asking to see if someone could have shedded some light on this,but mostly we get negitive stuff like this from people like you, and we did figure out a number, in fact it is in the court records now $60,000,000 for what we have found so far

And if someone out there is an expert with refernce please add to this if not your opinion dosent matter

Thanks for bringing this up

Sorry Black Duck, but who else can estimate a price better as an auction house with many years of experience, specially in maritime auctions?! Every one who is in the salvage business should know that and auction houses would be the first place to ask for an estimation, specialy if you want to sell it for the highest possible price! Even if this is a "rare" Canon because it is some years older than others, the auction houses can compare it with similar stuff they sold and they know exactly their clients and what they would pay for it on an auction. They did their homework in this business! If it is so rare, I guess no one here in this forum is able to tell a price - exept there is someone who collected all maritime auction catalouges with hammer price lists. As I said before, the question in a forum full of amateurs, treasure hunters and divers is simply rediculous and not professional at all. It simply suggests people that they don´t know what they doing and just pull out pieces of the sea to make may money on it in first case.
The piece of "priceless history" is a stone piece in bad condition and nothing special for a real collector and no one would pay much money on it, just because it was a maritime find. I know that on martime finds people asking hundrets of % more as on the same piece wich was found on land but this is not every time justified. Someone who may buy such a piece must have a special relation to this monument or to its special history. For other people with big money who just looking for decorative art, this is simply a complete uninteresting and boring piece of stone. (wich it is in fact!)
Because your other question how many auctions I have done: I am just since nearly 30 years in the antiquitie business and this for reason for such a long time. And I never asked for a price estimation on a forum... Every one would think I don´t know what I am doing :-)
About this fantasy court records: I would give a **** on this at all! I know how the courts and laywers in the US are working. 10.000.000 $ for a woman who burned herself with coffee in Mc D.... the whole world was laughing about this B/S! Do you know why this records are such rediculous high?! Your laywers make more profit on it ANYWAY if you loose or win! They send you later a bill with the % of the estimated value....

 

[Black Duck]

Sorry Black Duck, but who else can estimate a price better as an auction house with many years of experience, specially in maritime auctions?! Every one who is in the salvage business should know that and auction houses would be the first place to ask for an estimation, specialy if you want to sell it for the highest possible price! Even if this is a "rare" Canon because it is some years older than others, the auction houses can compare it with similar stuff they sold and they know exactly their clients and what they would pay for it on an auction. They did their homework in this business! If it is so rare, I guess no one here in this forum is able to tell a price - exept there is someone who collected all maritime auction catalouges with hammer price lists. As I said before, the question in a forum full of amateurs, treasure hunters and divers is simply rediculous and not professional at all. It simply suggests people that they don´t know what they doing and just pull out pieces of the sea to make may money on it in first case.
The piece of "priceless history" is a stone piece in bad condition and nothing special for a real collector and no one would pay much money on it, just because it was a maritime find. I know that on martime finds people asking hundrets of % more as on the same piece wich was found on land but this is not every time justified. Someone who may buy such a piece must have a special relation to this monument or to its special history. For other people with big money who just looking for decorative art, this is simply a complete uninteresting and boring piece of stone. (wich it is in fact!)
Because your other question how many auctions I have done: I am just since nearly 30 years in the antiquitie business and this for reason for such a long time. And I never asked for a price estimation on a forum... Every one would think I don´t know what I am doing :-)
About this fantasy court records: I would give a **** on this at all! I know how the courts and laywers in the US are working. 10.000.000 $ for a woman who burned herself with coffee in

Yes
When searching for the truth as we did in this case, and when looking for answers you check everywhere you can as we have and we are doing, we have already done what you have said with many of the auction house's abouve and many more
As we did when we sold the largest amount of pewter that was ever sold at one time from a ship wreck that produced the largest amount of pewter ever found.
You should check your facts and the back ground of GME before you make a statement is all.
no negitiveness to u at all just saying

 

[Tom_Restorer]

I know about the pewter Wreck! I have had serveral pieces from it include a complete nesting weight etc. wich I bought for family members as gifts.
You doing a real great job on the documentation and COA´s etc wich comes with the artifacts! Thats also a reason why i am confused you asking for help here regarding prices.
I am sure in this forum are many very good experts and researchers who can help in any kind of historical questions but on prices??
Anyway,it was also not meant angry or negative by me in any way!!! I just try to be honnest and say what I am thinking and I wish you from the deep of my heart, that you have luck to sell the canons for the highest possible prices! And the "ugly stone" you can still place in your garden if no one will have it

 

[seekerGH]

more fun!

[FONT=&quot]ORDER granting [/FONT]85[FONT=&quot] Second Unopposed Joint Motion for an Amendment to Scheduling Order as to GME and Florida. The deadline for Plaintiff and the State of Florida to file dispositive motions and Daubert motions is extended up to and including [/FONT][FONT=&quot]February 15, 2018[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Signed by Magistrate Judge Karla R. Spaulding on [/FONT][FONT=&quot]1/11/2018[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. (ECJ)[/FONT]

 

[seekerGH]

The Court docket shows a Partial Summary Judgment has been ordered.

What is this outcome?

 

[Boatlode]

So these unique historic artifacts are still sitting on the bottom of Cape Canaveral at risk of damage or loss by storms while the courts decide who owns them. Have I got that right?

 

[enrada]

Government Archie's haven't figured out how to find it or steal it from the finder yet!!!!!

 

[Salvor6]

Ya, keep it in the courts until the defendent runs out of money.

 

[seekerGH]

A partial judgment has been ordered, anyone have ideas what parts have been ordered?

 

[stevemc]

I will ask and find out and let you all know.

 

[seekerGH]

The partial summary judgement is available.

Looks like the definition of 'embedded' has been defined. I guess the fact that the artefacts were under 6 to 8 feet of sand, not exposed on the bottom surface helped in the definition.

Interesting read.

https://www.scribd.com/document/372448621/Florida-Motion-for-Sum-Parju-d

 

[aquanut]

The partial summary judgement is available.

Looks like the definition of 'embedded' has been defined. I guess the fact that the artefacts were under 6 to 8 feet of sand, not exposed on the bottom surface helped in the definition.



Interesting read.

https://www.scribd.com/document/372448621/Florida-Motion-for-Sum-Parju-d

Just more bureaucratic lawmaking that ensures the grubberment gets everything they want. Wait until the next hurricane uncovers the artifacts!

 

[Salvor6]

The 1715 fleet artifacts (and coins) are also 'embedded' under the sand yet the salvors are allowed to use blowers to uncover it. What's the difference?

 

[MPH200]

The killer right here …

"Objects from shipwrecks do not need to be totally embedded to meet the
definition. The court in Zych v. Unidentified, Wreck and Abandoned Vessel, believed
to be the “Seabird,” 941 F. 2d 525, 529 (7th Cir. 1991), stated that partially buried
wrecks meet the definition of embedded under the ASA, and that “embeddedness”
serves as a proxy for historic value."

 

[signumops]

Duggins and Morgan claimed there was a shipwreck they visited even though they could not see it... so how could they know there was a shipwreck if they could not see it? They couldn't, nor could anyone else until GME blew away the sand, ergo, FL BAR, et al are relying totally upon the work done by GME previously to set forth their case. Of course you have GME's support in this matter with their own depositions. It's just a point of simple self-interest that the archaeological oligarchy will take a good deed and beat you over the head with it to maintain their own relevance as ideologues. And why should we assume that the National Park Service "Guidelines" are anything more than a shell for the UNESCO convention? We should not. I think the dead rat we smell is found in this remark: "This excavation pit was likely created via blowers and were outside the scope of the limited test excavations authorized under GME’s permit." Really? So we should subscribe to the "scope" that regulated the LAMP excavation, which found nothing? Basically what the state has admitted here is that they would never find the monument and bronze cannon, were it left to their own devices. Meanwhile Floridians are being robbed as this very important cache of artifacts continues to rot away. And BTW, if you look at the monument you will notice that it has periodically laid atop the seabed in the past, evidenced by the barnacle scabs that cling to it.

 

[huntsman53]

It is apparent from the 23 page Court Motion (23 pages, really?) in defining "Embedded" and determining that the shipwreck items are "Embedded" that the Court will award the wreck to the State of Florida. In turn, Florida will likely give ownership of any items recovered from the shipwreck to France. I guess the question is, who will they get to recover any more of the items from the shipwreck when they are giving Global Marine Exploration a royal screwing and it is likely that no other Salvors will be interested in recovering any items from the shipwreck in fear of being also royally screwed when the recovery is complete. You can bet that the State of Florida and their Holier than Thou Archaeologists will not do or pay for any of recovery of the shipwreck items and will leave them to continue to suffer from saltwater, hurricane, storm, wave action, ocean current, coral and barnacle damage.

 

[seekerGH]

The 1715 fleet artifacts (and coins) are also 'embedded' under the sand yet the salvors are allowed to use blowers to uncover it. What's the difference?

This was allowed after ownership was fought out and determined. State still gets its share, no?

Reading through this thread and the other on same, it appears it was claimed the permit was never rescinded, never violated, and the artefacts were not embedded, but on the surface. The Court document tells a much different story.

Use of a blower was not allowed under the permit that was issued, that is different than blowers are not allowed.