Question about using Nox 800 in trashy urban areas

[pulltabfelix]

I have owned the 800 since March 2018.

I hunt in mid-town Atlanta below Buckhead, east Atlanta over near Decatur and north Atlanta 10 miles north of I-285. Where I hunt is in public parks, along creeks, some old home sites and in short near where tons of people live, play and work. Metro Atlanta has around 6 million people and growing fast. It seems that every lawn service crew and park crews cutting grass take pleasure in mowing soda cans rather than picking them up. Thus you have can slaw scattered in a six foot pattern every two weeks or so.

There there are the park goers who will gleefully pull off pop tops, beer caps and screw caps and throw them on the ground. Not to mention to the foil that everyone seems to roll up in a ball and flick it with their finger off into the distance.

But now to the point. I hunt these areas for silver coins and civil war relics with the 800. Took a while to learn the 800, but in my trashy environment I had to reduce the sensitivity to get rid of the constant chatter of all the crap in the modern layer of trash and clad. Thus when I reduced the sensitivity to quiet the 800 down, I found myself limited to finding things in that trashy 4-5" layer of modern trash and clad. And thus not being able to find the older good stuff deeper.

My good finds to trash was about 5% to 95%. So I gave up and sold my 800 and bought a new CTX3030. It has proven effective in this trashy area. Why because it has very good discrimination features, easy to set up by picking from a handful of modes and creating a discrim pattern for my areas. Plus the icing on the cake is a great target ID system with their color X-Y, FE-CO screen. Easy to set up target ID audio responses.

So now I know that I can hunt in my trashy areas effectively with the right detector. But the nagging question is it possible to set up the 800 to hunt in the trashy areas I described? Or is having real problems using the 800 in very trashy urban areas one of the little secrets that nobody will admit to as a problem for the 800?

I know the 800 is an excellent machine for relics in fields and woods away from modern trash, same with beach and desert hunting for gold. Minelab did a great job for that. But Minelab seemed to have ruled out trashy urban areas by making the 800 so hot it can find really small pieces of metal that are very difficult to accurately ID and thus in this trashy hunting areas it turns the 800 into a beep and dig machine for only about 4-5" depth. I kept hearing these great stories about people using the Equinox finding nine inch coins. No chance in areas I hunt.

Your thoughts?

 

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[sgoss66]

pulltabfelix -- short answer...if you are digging deep old coins, beneath the trash layer, with the CTX, you COULD do so with the Equinox. I agree with you that the discrimination/ID system is better on the CTX, but the ability to "find stuff" is not, in my opinion. If the CTX can see it, then in a vast majority of cases the EQX can see it, too, and should be reporting it to you in a way that you can learn to recognize. In fact, with the faster recovery of the Equinox, you SHOULD be able to separate coins, from modern trash BETTER than you can with the CTX.

However, trying to find Civil War artifacts in such trashy areas is -- in my opinion -- a task only for the extremely patient. I can't think of a more tedious task, with a detector. I have not hunted Civil War-era buttons, lead, etc. ALOT, but, when I have, it becomes quickly apparent that most of the targets I IGNORE in a park, when trying to cherry-pick deep coins (15s, 16s, 17s, and 18s -- that are usually can slaw, pull tabs, rectangular tabs, etc.), are the VERY TARGETS I AM HOPING TO HIT when hunting Civil War relics. That's where many of the buttons, minies, round balls, etc. will read. So, along those lines, digging 15s, 16s, 17s, and 18s in the types of spots you are describing, would push your average person to madness!

Bottom line, you have to use what "works" for you, and if the CTX "works" better for your style, your ears (and eyes), etc., then by all means, use it! It's a GREAT machine! But, I can tell you that my CTX is collecting alot of dust over the past few years, in favor of the Equinox (for what that's worth).

Hope that helps a bit...

Steve

 

[pulltabfelix]

pulltabfelix -- short answer...if you are digging deep old coins, beneath the trash layer, with the CTX, you COULD do so with the Equinox. I agree with you that the discrimination/ID system is better on the CTX, but the ability to "find stuff" is not, in my opinion. If the CTX can see it, then in a vast majority of cases the EQX can see it, too, and should be reporting it to you in a way that you can learn to recognize. In fact, with the faster recovery of the Equinox, you SHOULD be able to separate coins, from modern trash BETTER than you can with the CTX.

However, trying to find Civil War artifacts in such trashy areas is -- in my opinion -- a task only for the extremely patient. I can't think of a more tedious task, with a detector. I have not hunted Civil War-era buttons, lead, etc. ALOT, but, when I have, it becomes quickly apparent that most of the targets I IGNORE in a park, when trying to cherry-pick deep coins (15s, 16s, 17s, and 18s -- that are usually can slaw, pull tabs, rectangular tabs, etc.), are the VERY TARGETS I AM HOPING TO HIT when hunting Civil War relics. That's where many of the buttons, minies, round balls, etc. will read. So, along those lines, digging 15s, 16s, 17s, and 18s in the types of spots you are describing, would push your average person to madness!

Bottom line, you have to use what "works" for you, and if the CTX "works" better for your style, your ears (and eyes), etc., then by all means, use it! It's a GREAT machine! But, I can tell you that my CTX is collecting alot of dust over the past few years, in favor of the Equinox (for what that's worth).

Hope that helps a bit...

Steve

I have heard over and over you should use 50 tones on the 800 to hear the nuances to separate or determine the good targets from the metallic junk targets. My problem is a lost in my hearing of some high frequency tones. So maybe that was hindering my efforts for 3 years. The CTX gives more visual clues to me on the X-Y FE-CO color screen. I know the 800 is a very good detector for huge numbers of detectorists but for some reason I could not get it to work for me.

 

[sgoss66]

I have heard over and over you should use 50 tones on the 800 to hear the nuances to separate or determine the good targets from the metallic junk targets. My problem is a lost in my hearing of some high frequency tones. So maybe that was hindering my efforts for 3 years. The CTX gives more visual clues to me on the X-Y FE-CO color screen. I know the 800 is a very good detector for huge numbers of detectorists but for some reason I could not get it to work for me.

Felix, that actually makes alot of sense. If you have some hearing loss at higher frequencies, then it is VERY possible that the CTX is a better machine for you. There's no doubt that the EQX focuses much more on audible skills, vs. visual output. SO -- if getting more of your target information visually works better for you, due to hearing loss, then it makes complete sense to me why you might have better success with the CTX, vs. the EQX.

It's a great machine, and it should serve you very well!

Steve

 

[pulltabfelix]

Felix, that actually makes alot of sense. If you have some hearing loss at higher frequencies, then it is VERY possible that the CTX is a better machine for you. There's no doubt that the EQX focuses much more on audible skills, vs. visual output. SO -- if getting more of your target information visually works better for you, due to hearing loss, then it makes complete sense to me why you might have better success with the CTX, vs. the EQX.

It's a great machine, and it should serve you very well!

Steve

I am finding that out. I do have a much improved ratio of junk to good stuff. Finding more good targets than junk.
But I am not doubting how good the Equinox is for the majority of people. I think it is very well established as one of the best detectors released in the last three years along with the XP Deus and soon the XP Deus II. The XP Deus II sounds like some good competition for the 800. I love good competition, it benefits all of us.

It will be real interesting to see what Minelab replies with to counter the XP Deus II. Probably sooner than later, maybe this fall.

 

[sgoss66]

I am finding that out. I do have a much improved ratio of junk to good stuff. Finding more good targets than junk.
But I am not doubting how good the Equinox is for the majority of people. I think it is very well established as one of the best detectors released in the last three years along with the XP Deus and soon the XP Deus II. The XP Deus II sounds like some good competition for the 800. I love good competition, it benefits all of us.

It will be real interesting to see what Minelab replies with to counter the XP Deus II. Probably sooner than later, maybe this fall.

I think it's terrific that you are seeing your trash-to-treasure ratio improving. That's what it's all about!

I agree with you -- competition DEFINITELY benefits us all, and I, like you, can't wait to see what I expect will be a CTX replacement/Equinox (Multi-IQ) flagship-caliber machine sometime here in the next year or two (hopefully). And yes, offerings like the Deus II (which early reporting sure makes it sound as though it may meet -- or exceed -- Equinox capability) should help to ensure that Minelab's next unit is something special...

Steve

 

[burlbark]

Having tried just about every detector to speak of, minus the Deus 2..... Equinox 800 does not even come close in trashy areas.
Nothing has beat my v3i with a 5x8" coil for picking through trash. I have more target ID with this detector running 3 frequency and can easily identify high conductors such as silver and copper from the dominant response I get in the 2.5 frequency.

Its 99% fool proof and made in 2008, still waiting for something to take its crown and it has not happened yet.
I still yearn for better noise cancellation, more depth and a way to determine gold from foil but its the best we got.

 

[Armstrong]

There might not be an easy way other than skipping anything under 20. We would miss gold and nickels by doing that, but also most trash. Use of the iron grunt technique helps in these areas as well. The worst are the juice top caps that are one side plastic the other aluminum. Those probably trick me the most.

 

[McKinney_5900]

I have heard over and over you should use 50 tones on the 800 to hear the nuances to separate or determine the good targets from the metallic junk targets. My problem is a lost in my hearing of some high frequency tones. So maybe that was hindering my efforts for 3 years. The CTX gives more visual clues to me on the X-Y FE-CO color screen. I know the 800 is a very good detector for huge numbers of detectorists but for some reason I could not get it to work for me.

I religiously

Having tried just about every detector to speak of, minus the Deus 2..... Equinox 800 does not even come close in trashy areas.
Nothing has beat my v3i with a 5x8" coil for picking through trash. I have more target ID with this detector running 3 frequency and can easily identify high conductors such as silver and copper from the dominant response I get in the 2.5 frequency.

Its 99% fool proof and made in 2008, still waiting for something to take its crown and it has not happened yet.
I still yearn for better noise cancellation, more depth and a way to determine gold from foil but its the best we got.

"Nothing has beat my v3i with a 5x8" coil for picking through trash?

Who made that coil?

 

[pulltabfelix]

pulltabfelix -- short answer...if you are digging deep old coins, beneath the trash layer, with the CTX, you COULD do so with the Equinox. I agree with you that the discrimination/ID system is better on the CTX, but the ability to "find stuff" is not, in my opinion. If the CTX can see it, then in a vast majority of cases the EQX can see it, too, and should be reporting it to you in a way that you can learn to recognize. In fact, with the faster recovery of the Equinox, you SHOULD be able to separate coins, from modern trash BETTER than you can with the CTX.

However, trying to find Civil War artifacts in such trashy areas is -- in my opinion -- a task only for the extremely patient. I can't think of a more tedious task, with a detector. I have not hunted Civil War-era buttons, lead, etc. ALOT, but, when I have, it becomes quickly apparent that most of the targets I IGNORE in a park, when trying to cherry-pick deep coins (15s, 16s, 17s, and 18s -- that are usually can slaw, pull tabs, rectangular tabs, etc.), are the VERY TARGETS I AM HOPING TO HIT when hunting Civil War relics. That's where many of the buttons, minies, round balls, etc. will read. So, along those lines, digging 15s, 16s, 17s, and 18s in the types of spots you are describing, would push your average person to madness!

Bottom line, you have to use what "works" for you, and if the CTX "works" better for your style, your ears (and eyes), etc., then by all means, use it! It's a GREAT machine! But, I can tell you that my CTX is collecting alot of dust over the past few years, in favor of the Equinox (for what that's worth).

Hope that helps a bit...

Steve

I did forget one piece of positive info on the 800 and coins in trashy parks. Learned it from a guy on the forum who posted a video explaining it. Saw it about two weeks before I sold my 800.

Hunt trashy parks in 4khz and it makes the pull tabs and pop tops invisible and yet the coins appear with the proper tones and TID values. Even if the aluminum junk is on top of the coin or right below it.

 

[sgoss66]

Hunt trashy parks in 4khz and it makes the pull tabs and pop tops invisible and yet the coins appear with the proper tones and TID values. Even if the aluminum junk is on top of the coin or right below it.

Makes them invisible? Hmm...

Steve

 

[pulltabfelix]

Makes them invisible? Hmm...

Steve

I tried it. put a pull tab on top of a dime and you get the dime audio and Correct TID and nothing about the pull tab or pop top. I didn't really believe his video, but I duplicated his results. And in a trashy park. but seems to work only no pull tabs and pop tops and some can slaw. But that is a huge portion of junk. Found that out about 2 weeks before I decided to buy the CTX3030. Still prefer the CTX for other reasons. I would assume it is because the 4khz is good on higher conductive targets and aluminum is not in that category. Aluminum is below silver, copper & gold. I did my air test on a clean piece of ground. Of course I mean invisible in terms of the 800 seeing the pull tab.

 

[burlbark]

I religiously

"Nothing has beat my v3i with a 5x8" coil for picking through trash?

Who made that coil?

Its an SEF and they call it a 8x6" now. They made one v-rated and mine no longer is but anything higher than a gain of 8 proved too noisy for all my coils and I still see coins at 6"+ in dirty ground.

 

[sgoss66]

I tried it. put a pull tab on top of a dime and you get the dime audio and Correct TID and nothing about the pull tab or pop top. I didn't really believe his video, but I duplicated his results. And in a trashy park. but seems to work only no pull tabs and pop tops and some can slaw. But that is a huge portion of junk. Found that out about 2 weeks before I decided to buy the CTX3030. Still prefer the CTX for other reasons. I would assume it is because the 4khz is good on higher conductive targets and aluminum is not in that category. Aluminum is below silver, copper & gold. I did my air test on a clean piece of ground. Of course I mean invisible in terms of the 800 seeing the pull tab.

Felix -- OK, maybe I see what you mean now. I was thinking that what was being said was if you swing your EQX over a pull tab, in 4 kHz, the machine would not detect it -- sort of as if it was "discriminated out" type of invisible. And I knew that couldn't be correct, hence my "Hmm..." BUT -- I think I now see that you are saying that if you have a coin and pull tab co-located, you get proper VDI on the dime.

NOW -- my question would be, does that occur only when the pull tab is on top of/touching the dime, OR in VERY close proximity to the dime? My guess is that's the only way this would work. I'm guessing that if you have a pull tab at 3" deep, and directly below, a dime at 6" deep, you'd get "pull-tab VDI," not "dime VDI," but that's just a guess...

Steve

 

[McKinney_5900]

Its an SEF and they call it a 8x6" now. They made one v-rated and mine no longer is but anything higher than a gain of 8 proved too noisy for all my coils and I still see coins at 6"+ in dirty ground.

I thought it was the 8x6. Mine on the V3i is still rock solid and is my go-to coil, unless the 10x12 SEF. I run my 8x6 full sensitivity and with Turbo on, and it is still infallible after all these years. It sees deep, and separates targets like a charm.

Got to ask. Was it ever labeled as 5x8? I couldn't find a reference to 5x8 and Whites V3i.

Just curious.

 

[Bart@Big Boys Hobbies]

MAN! Talk about some good info for people to hear/read by some experienced guys!!! Thanks for the posts Gentlemen!

 

[CarsonChris]

4KHZ will really make buttons pop in old sites. Some buttons sound like trash in multi frequency but turn to a great tone in 4 KHZ. Same with buckles where the wire loop has rusted out but the other portion of main buckle is in tact.

 

[sgoss66]

Chris -- that's a very interesting observation...

Last time I was on a Civil War hunt, I remember MANY of the good finds were kind of crappy-sounding; I attributed it to "bad dirt;" at the time, the 4kHz build was not available yet, but thinking about that hunt, and what you just said, has me intrigued...

Steve

 

[MackDog]

Having tried just about every detector to speak of, minus the Deus 2..... Equinox 800 does not even come close in trashy areas.
Nothing has beat my v3i with a 5x8" coil for picking through trash. I have more target ID with this detector running 3 frequency and can easily identify high conductors such as silver and copper from the dominant response I get in the 2.5 frequency.

Its 99% fool proof and made in 2008, still waiting for something to take its crown and it has not happened yet.
I still yearn for better noise cancellation, more depth and a way to determine gold from foil but its the best we got.

I also owned the V3i and the Nox 800. The Nox is far deeper. I use it fully open all metal and 50 tones. +you must go slow enough to identify each tone. After a while you will learn what is probably trash and what is a god signal, mainly by tone but cross check with VDI. Remember on deeper targets VDI breaks down shallower than the tone. I recommend you use your regular settings and switch to all metal for a bit. Then increase your time in all metal until you fully understand it . JUST A NOTE IF YOUR NOT DIGGNG ANY TRASH YOUR MISSING VALUABLE TARGETS

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Did not read all the responses as I want to answer first being a new nox user but not new to detecting...

I think you personally swung and missed here...I would of watched more videos... across different sites the experienced users I have talked to said...forget the crappy tid... forget the depth reader... concentrate on tones... I listened 3rd hunt very trashy area with the standard coil and I hit a 54 rosie...

Next did you ever think...trashy area smaller coil to allow much better separation?

Also chatter my first hunt I thought my coil was bad my chatter was so bad.. I did turn down the sensitivity right away... BUT you know what it was my damn phone! 2nd trip had turned off.. no issues!!!

Also with the available frequencies and the ability to set up your own programs... just think you swung and missed on this one...