Recent hunt, Another Phoenix button.

[Old California]

Recently, Meet up with a good friend (El) and detected an area we felt would give up a few old targets. Going through Gobs of research material we determined the area surely dated back to the 1820's maybe even a bit earlier, We about gave up when we finally found a small patch of ground loaded with iron.

This small patch of soil didn't gave up any old coins but we did manage to capture five mission era buttons one of them a Phoenix button, One of the smaller size buttons may be a foreign coin made into a button? It's rare but does happen to find 1/2 dimes or small reale coins turned into buttons from settlements such as these, Not too sure about this particular one but none the less it's from around that era.

We were using a T-2, Troy X-5 and a Treasure baron. The X-5 picked out the most targets including the tiny coin/button between the three detectors, a quick hunt but a productive one.

Well, I guess that was our mini adventure before the heat wave approaches.

Thanks for looking,
Paul (Ca)

 

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[aa battery]

Hi paul nice finds..........aa

 

[pegleglooker]

BEAUTIFUL !!!!!
OC nice job, one of these days I'll have to come up to your neck of the woods and go a huntin' .

PLL

 

[Old California]

Thanks Pegleg and Battery,

The recent finds are made by both El and me, Once in a while when we get the chance we meet somewhere in California for a day hunt and most of our time spent during the course of the day is traveling to and from the location so we generally only detect for a few hours at most.

This recent hunt was my first serious hunt using the X-5, Actually the X-5 belongs to El but I wanted to see how it would do at an older settlement and was surprised it fared well.

The X-5 gets great separation and is good on tiny size conductive targets, And good with targets on edge as well...The only area I see that it fell short on was depth but I was using the 5"X10" DD and next time out I'll use the stock concentric coil which should add on an extra 1-2 inches.

Thanks again!
Paul (Ca)

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Paul, was this the site where you and El got some good buttons awhile back (south of the you-know-what-site)? Or is this a new site? Your part of CA or mine? If this site is in cow pastures or regular grass land of some type, you must've been fighting pretty high spring grass right about now, eh? At this time of year (spring/early summer) I don't even do grass-land hunting in this area, because of the spring growth. Best time of year for grass-land/cow pastures around here in late fall or early winter (when the wild grasses and vegetation are down to stubble).

I just got 2 more phoenix buttons last week too! Mine were on the kinzli forum, but will attach a pix for this forum's viewers:

 

[Old California]

Hi Tom,

Congrats with your recent two Phoenix button finds, Many treasure hunters who know the history of the Phoenix button would relish such a find.

Yes, These recent finds came from the same general area. I'll post some of other recent finds from the same general area and you may recognize some of the finds from our recent conversations...The finds are slim due to our busy schedules and not having enough time to detect this particular area, We are there visiting with the owner on a regular basis but as you know we are slow and not in a hurry.

El and I are now getting a better understanding of what took place in this particular area, In addition to the settlement we are locating possible camp sites many pioneers may have rested during their long journey while passing through.

WTG on your two P buttons! Hope to see you soon!
Paul (Ca)

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Paul, great photo lineup. I know you put in a lot of hardwork for those. Touching history that old in CA is TOUGH! East coast guys may think "ho hum, what the big deal?" But out here in CA, you are dabbling into a time period when the entire European influence population of alta CA was probably only numbered at less than 10K people. By the 1840s that was changing fast, but your items (as evidenced by the 1830s phoenix buttons) was from a very frontier time period. CA was the backwash of the world. Very remote and removed. Removed from "settled" portion of North and south America by vast deserts, prohibitive mountain ranges, risky ocean travel, etc.... So that's why to touch this period is so difficult. Like a needle in a haystack. So few people and places of habitation to have even lost something to begin with, and now nearly impossible to find!

As for the area you found that stuff in: There were several neigbhors, and several adobes in that general area. I have often wondered "where are the others?" but just gave up assuming they were under modern homes. One way to find them might be to talk to families who have been out there for multiple generations. Even though any traces of the old adobes were gone .... even by the turn of the century, yet it is not uncommon for families of multiple generations to know things that simply were never recorded in history books. Spots that grandpa tells grandson about, and grandson tells his son, etc...

For example: I'm researching a spot right now that ...... back in the 1960s was found and excavated by an archaeologist. After he was done, the spot was covered back up and forgotten about. Fast forward to now, and we find this slight notation in some archaeological papers of the period. But try as we may, we just can't find it, d/t the archie's of that period were purposefully vague. So we simply go to the farming family in that area, and presto! A person in his 60's remember when the foundations were visible, and is willing to take us right to the spot! doh

So have you thought about finding out who is the oldest continuous family in that vicinity, and striking up conversation with them?

 

[ghostdog]

Cool finds, reasearch pays , reasearch off, ,.....HH

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey gang,
At the risk of sounding naive, was is the history of the " phoenix " button. I mean I think they look GREAT, and I understand the age and place in California history. But, who wore them and why is that button ( as compared to any other ) more important ??

Thanks
PLL

 

[Tom_in_CA]

PLL, phoenix buttons turn up only areas from the 1820s/30s. Any sites that began after the 1840s, won't have them. Therefore, whenever you can find a site in CA (or OR or WA) where you find a phoenix button, you know that you can find reales, busts, wickedly early seateds, and other mission era targets at the same site. So these buttons have sort of taken on a "notch of achievement" in and of themselves. A sort of goal and/or skill level, to say you've found one or more. They also have sort of a cool history and an odd collectibles story (at one time they were thought to be worth $3000 each!). Right now though, they are selling for around $30 to $100 each, depending on the #, condition, etc... (and depending on how many people are bidding at one time on ebay! doh )

Here's more info. When you get to the bottom, be sure to click on "page 2" to go to the next page:

http://www.thetreasuredepot.com/issue3/article4.htm

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey Tom,
That was a great link, it explained it all. Thanks sooo much for the info

PLL

 

[Mackaydon]

Here's an add on:
Phoenix Buttons

Strong, Emory; American Antiquity, Vol. 25, No. 3 (Jan., 1960), pp. 418-419 (article consists of 2 pages)
Published by: Society for American Archaeology

Abstract: Metal buttons bearing the Phoenix bird, a motto in French, and a number are found in quantity in historic sites along the lower Columbia River, and less commonly throughout western North America. Phoenix buttons were not made for Napoleon, as often claimed, but were manufactured by an English firm in the early 1800's for King Christophe of Haiti. The Phoenix bird and the motto come from his coat of arms; the numbers refer to regiments. These military uniform buttons were brought to the Northwest before 1835 by an independent trader, most likely Nathaniel Wyeth, who probably used uniform coats, which he may have obtained earlier when shipping ice to the West Indies, to trade for fish for his salmon packing plant on the Columbia River.
Source: http://www.jstor.org/pss/277535

 

[Recovering Relics]

I have a phoenix button (number 29). You can see it to the left. It's my favorite find. I'm sure you were very happy when you found it! Congrats!!!