🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Ring ?

[Klowery]

Any clues as to what kind of ring this may be? Looks to be some kind of brass with a dark plating. No clue on inscription on face? Found in sw ohio near early 1800s farm

 

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[Red-Coat]

It looks to me to either be “very old” or just “old and crudely home-made”. I’m not seeing anything to suggest a pirate connection, nor any resemblance to the pirate ring recovered from the Whydah, beyond it being octagonal (which was rather common for signet and seal rings) and having some letters on it.

Three things struck me.

The symbol below the letters looks like it could be intended to be the wings of a dove; the sprays below potentially meant to be olive branches; and the ‘I’ in the letter group appears to be deliberately smaller than the ‘P’ and the ‘E’.

I would speculate that the whole might be a Christian expression for peace in the world, with perhaps the letters standing for PAX in ÆTERNUM (anglicised as PAX in ETERNUM) or something similar. I have nothing to support that speculation though, apart from modern signet ring examples with a similar kind of sentiment.





[PS: it hasn’t been established what the letters ‘TEYE BA’ on the pirate ring from the Whydah actually mean. The ring itself appears to be European in origin, with its original inscription or engraving erased and replaced with those letters. There has been speculation that they’re an abbreviation for a Welsh “good luck” wish or that the ring belonged to a Royal Navy sailor-turned-pirate with the name “Teye”. Another theory is that they come from an African dialect (around a third of Whydah’s motley crew was from Africa) and specifically from the ‘Wolof’ dialect. The Wolof translation of the Bible includes the phrase “teye ba” twice, and in both cases from the Apostle Paul saying “I am coming to you”. It could be a sentimental promise by a pirate to return to his homeland/family; or could be interpreted as a dark joke in the sense of “I’m coming to get you”. Alternatively, Teye was both an Afro-Egyptian Queen/deity and a common name in what is now Senegal on the west coast of Africa.]

 

[ARC]

Now i know this may "shock" some of you veterans in this... let alone others that will come on board here and read the following... AND BEFORE>>> ! the whole enchilada get wacky with "guesses" that are not of forethought / research(s)...

Take your time... THINK about THIS first question i would like you to ask yourself is...
have you seen "PIE" before...? IF your answer is "yes"... then... post away.

I am asking those... who like me... have delved into pirate history enough... for this to "register"... like it did the moment i laid eyes on it.
I was STUNNED for half a second... and had to look a few times myself... then immediately compared it to the ONLY known example.

For this ring has the same "look" of the ALL of history ONLY 1 DOCUMENTED.... ring that this ring fits.... TO A "T".
And it just so happens... It was found..... ON THE ONLY ...... AGAIN>>>> DOCUMENTED... FOR A FACT.....
"pirate ship".

THIS... and obviously a gold version.

 

[ARC]

Looks like a wax seal ring

It is most definately...

BUT... IMO... not just "any ole".... again IMO... this one just hooked me...FOR... there is only one other ring that i have seen that resembles this one... and lets just say... its SUPER rare... RARER than rare.... rare....

LEt me just say it one more time... RARE>.

I want to do a little homework on this before i say anymore... in the meanwhile... lets see what OR IF any others want to chime in on this ... again IMO ... KILLER find.

This ring... DO NOT CLEAN IT IN ANY WAY ! other than a LIGHT clean... hot water rinse and LIGHTLY PAD dry with SOFT towel.

Finds like this... IS the reason... is the drive... IS the everything that metal detecting is all about.

Oh and PS.... What makes this site so cool.

 

[HuntinDog]

Looks like a wax seal ring

 

[billb]

Congratulations on your Rare recovery

 

[ARC]

Ok... after some research... i am gonna throw this out there... this MAY / COULD BE...

A Medieval merchants era ring... used primarily in the 15th - 16th century.

Here is a comp.

 

[ARC]

No, I'm not familiar... please share.

I am trying to find out what it was... my recollection has eluded me on where / what.

I have been going over everything from old manuscript markings to gravestone markings and so on thus far.
with... so far nothing concrete yielded... obviously.

I have seen both PIE and PYE markings... just cannot pinpoint it.... HENCE the above in hopes something someone added would jog my memory.

 

[ARC]

Just to let the cat out of the bag

It looks to me to either be “very old” or just “old and crudely home-made”. I’m not seeing anything to suggest a pirate connection, nor any resemblance to the pirate ring recovered from the Whydah, beyond it being octagonal (which was rather common for signet and seal rings) and having some letters on it.

Three things struck me.

The symbol below the letters looks like it could be intended to be the wings of a dove; the sprays below potentially meant to be olive branches; and the ‘I’ in the letter group appears to be deliberately smaller than the ‘P’ and the ‘E’.

I would speculate that the whole might be a Christian expression for peace in the world, with perhaps the letters standing for PAX in ÆTERNUM (anglicised as PAX in ETERNUM) or something similar. I have nothing to support that speculation though, apart from modern signet ring examples with a similar kind of sentiment.

View attachment 1989691



[PS: it hasn’t been established what the letters ‘TEYE BA’ on the pirate ring from the Whydah actually mean. The ring itself appears to be European in origin, with its original inscription or engraving erased and replaced with those letters. There has been speculation that they’re an abbreviation for a Welsh “good luck” wish or that the ring belonged to a Royal Navy sailor-turned-pirate with the name “Teye”. Another theory is that they come from an African dialect (around a third of Whydah’s motley crew was from Africa) and specifically from the ‘Wolof’ dialect. The Wolof translation of the Bible includes the phrase “teye ba” twice, and in both cases from the Apostle Paul saying “I am coming to you”. It could be a sentimental promise by a pirate to return to his homeland/family; or could be interpreted as a dark joke in the sense of “I’m coming to get you”. Alternatively, Teye was both an Afro-Egyptian Queen/deity and a common name in what is now Senegal on the west coast of Africa.]

RC... as usual you go "above and beyond" a simple response.... which is great... And... you are correct on the common knowledge of the TEYE BA.
Obviously there is NO comparison in the text... and one should take more stock in ring shape comparison.

I am not saying this is definitely "pirate"... nor is this even the debate as mentioned.
Its is apparent you are not familiar with the "PIE"... and that thought i mentioned in this concerning responses in my above post... No offense intended.,, i was just seeing who out there has also seen the PIE / PYE mark.

 

[ARC]

Annnnd..... another..... ok i will stop now... heh

 

[mjb Mike]

wow cant wait to see were the history of this leads

 

[Red-Coat]

Its is apparent you are not familiar with the "PIE"... and that i thought i mentioned this concerning responses in my above post... No offense intended.,, i was just seeing who out there has also seen the PIE / PYE mark.

No, I'm not familiar... please share.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

What a unique ring find... this is why we do what we do!

You've got to good 'History Detectives' currently working on your case with ARC and Red-Coat!

Hope you get an I.D. on your find,
Dave

 

[ARC]

Here is another good example of a merchants Ring... obviously with the merchant's mark and initials...

This one is housed in The British Museum.

 

[ARC]

and another...

 

[ARC]

and yet another...

 

[Klowery]

Here are some more pics, sorry my phone doesn't take the best pics

 

[Red-Coat]

View attachment 1989948

Now... that's more what I had in mind. A Jesuit ring... and I would bet the 'PI' there stands for the "PIE JESU(S)" epithet I mentioned previously.

Those kinds of rings often have "I" (substituting for "J") as the second of two letters. I've seen "DI" for "DOMINUS JESU(S)" as well as "VI" and "NI" with unknown meaning, except that the 'I" again is likely for "JESU(S)"

Just haven't seen the three letters "PIE" together.

 

[ARC]

Now... that's more what I had in mind. A Jesuit ring... and I would bet the 'PI' there stands for the "PIE JESU(S)" epithet I mentioned previously.

Those kinds of rings often have "I" (substituting for "J") as the second of two letters. I've seen "DI" for "DOMINUS JESU(S)" as well as "VI" and "NI" with unknown meaning, except that the 'I" again is likely for "JESU(S)"

Just haven't seen the three letters "PIE" together.

Yeah... that is why i posted it... i think this is the right track... it dawned on me that it may be Fur Trade related so.

 

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[CRUSADER]

Ok... after some research... i am gonna throw this out there... this MAY / COULD BE...

A Medieval merchants era ring... used primarily in the 15th - 16th century.

Here is a comp.

View attachment 1989761

Well, it crossed my mind that it might fall into the 16th C-early 17th C bracket as I have found gold versions of this type & reported them to the British Museum.
Not saying this is 16th C but it has a few of the characteristics:
Right shaped Bezel
A single line boarder
Cast in one
Wax Seal type

This is definitely worthy of authentication.

Because it can only be 1 of 2 things:
The real deal!
A later copy in the version of. ie. an 18th-19th C copy.