robert marx's clue on the 1641 fleets location of loss

[Jolly Mon]

First, your mark is no where close to 13 miles of the coast. The water is over 300 feet deep at 13 miles.
Second, AARC is correct that 50ft would be extremely shallow for a ship during a storm. The gallons werent driven onto the shores, they were bounced on the bottom (often onto reefs) until the keels broken out from under them.

First my mark is almost exactly 13 miles offshore at 30 degrees N latitude.

Second, there is no way a 100 ton 6 gun patache could have bottomed out in a trough in 50 feet of normal water level. (Wave theory).

I assume you are talking specifically about the 1641 fleet in your last sentence. If so, Duro informs us that some foundered at sea, while others were actually smashed against "cliffs".

 

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[Jason in Enid]

First my mark is almost exactly 13 miles offshore at 30 degrees N latitude.

Second, there is no way a 100 ton 6 gun patache could have bottomed out in a trough in 50 feet of normal water level. (Wave theory).

I assume you are talking specifically about the 1641 fleet in your last sentence. If so, Duro informs us that some foundered at sea, while others were actually smashed against "cliffs".

read my edited post. I think I was looking at the depths off the treasure coast instead of St. A.

 

[Bum Luck]

where is 30 degrees located at? -- what is there about 13 miles offshore in that area that a ship might hit to damage its hull and it hang up on for sometime before floating free off it ? (5 leagues at 2.6 miles per league = 13 miles)---think think think…

From NOAA chart 11480: Off St Augustine. Lots of fish havens, and maybe some rockets or so..........

 

[ivan salis]

at around 30 degrees there is indeed a item that can hazard a smallish 6 gun patache in a fierce storm say 30 foot trough -- 10 foot depth of vessel = 40 foot total water depth find when it wrecked at find the "missing vessels" I have a friend that found a olive jar neck that had the DR neck marking that was exactly like he one found by bert webber in the 70's --I even sent mr webber a photo of it to ask him --he said its a 100 % match to the ones he found on the conception off of DR years ago..

 

[WaveJunky757]

Very nice

 

[Bum Luck]

I couldn't find an obstruction under 7 fathoms though.

A lot of them are sunken fish havens too, not there in 1641. I even checked the obstruction list.

Am I missing something?

 

[ProtoFTW]

Any update on this? I'm new to researching these wrecks, I live in New Smyrna so it's pretty interesting.

Is any of this related to this article? I couldn't seem to find anything else about an update:
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1989-12-14-8912142958-story.html

 

[ARC]

Any update on this? I'm new to researching these wrecks, I live in New Smyrna so it's pretty interesting.

Is any of this related to this article? I couldn't seem to find anything else about an update:
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1989-12-14-8912142958-story.html

Um... that article was from 1989.

 

[ProtoFTW]

Um... that article was from 1989.

I haven't seen anyone in here talking about a shipwreck off NSB

 

[Taboga]

Any update on this? I'm new to researching these wrecks, I live in New Smyrna so it's pretty interesting.

Is any of this related to this article? I couldn't seem to find anything else about an update:
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1989-12-14-8912142958-story.html

Looks like it might of been an investment scam

https://www.sec.gov/litigation/aljdec/1993/id19930526ejk.pdf

 

[Taboga]

Add to previous post

Although the linked court case is regarding artifacts from Tortugas and no mention of New Smyrna Beach. Same time period and charactors Seahawk Deep Ocean Technology Inc. and Bob Marx

Investor inticement statement from Orlando Sentinel
"That ship could yield more treasure than Mel Fisher's famous Nuestra Senora de Atocha, which produced about $250 million, the company says."

 

[WRECKING]

Looks like it might of been an investment scam

https://www.sec.gov/litigation/aljdec/1993/id19930526ejk.pdf

Interesting read. .... The business of selling dreams.

Now, who was that famous guy that one always hears about? "I HAVE A DREAM"?

Going back in history, one can find many famous people who were selling dreams. Christoph Columbus sold his dream. He obtained the financing he needed. He was more or less successful and became a hero.

Raleigh also sold his dream for financing his expedition for finding the Eldorado. He actually came to within a few miles of the immense gold deposits of Venezuela, but he was not successful in finding his dream.
His reward?
They cut his head off.

Morale of the story? If you sell a dream, you better be successful!!!!

 

[WRECKING]

A lot of speculation about the North-South location, but nobody seems to speculate about the 13.5 miles from the shore.

Why?

Because 13.5 miles is outside the 12 mile limit? Wishful thinking?

What is the coast like? Can you see the coast or the beach from that distance? Under what whether conditions? From what elevation? Remember, the Earth is not flat.

 

[enrada]

Having fought an Admiralty suit against Robert Marx with fraudulent artifacts and negative dealings with John Morris from Seahawk, I would write the Orlando Sentinel article off as total BS or scam. Have you ever read one of Robert Marx's investment portfolios? One of Marx's investors was Oceaneering International which obviously would like to find a wreck in deep water. There are two types of shipwreck projects, stock market invested and private funded projects like mine.

 

[FISHEYE]

There are about 9 wrecks in the new smyrna beach area.4 of them are near the beach.

 

[Jolly Mon]

Silly?...http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/314167-white-sport-coat-pink-crustacean-treasure.html

 

[ivan salis]

none other than DURO listed the name of a 1641 vessel named PERSA ....

 

[EPWright]

at around 30 degrees there is indeed a item that can hazard a smallish 6 gun patache in a fierce storm say 30 foot trough -- 10 foot depth of vessel = 40 foot total water depth find when it wrecked at find the "missing vessels" I have a friend that found a olive jar neck that had the DR neck marking that was exactly like he one found by bert webber in the 70's --I even sent mr webber a photo of it to ask him --he said its a 100 % match to the ones he found on the conception off of DR years ago..

Ivan Salis, what is the draft of said

Average galleon had an average draft of 15-20 feet with the largest and loaded being as much around 30.

When talking about the draft of a vessel so many things factor in... even down to the type of water it is floating in.

For example... two identical boats in size and weight sit at different heights in different types of water... like fresh VS salt. etc.

A ship with a 30 draught... could easily strike ground in 50 ish feet due to wave height... when ship drops into the trough of the wave it can hit.

ARC,JOLLY MON, JASON IN ENID, what is the draft of the Patache fully loaded. And if it is a fully loaded vessel, how much free-board did it have ?
Does this question help verify the depth of the accident ?
Oh, and how far do you three propose- surmise -estimate a fully loaded Patache with a broken keel without a bilge crew float north ?
Oh, did the rescue ship off load any or all treasures ?

 

[Red_desert]

where is 30 degrees located at? -- what is there about 13 miles offshore in that area that a ship might hit to damage its hull and it hang up on for sometime before floating free off it ? (5 leagues at 2.6 miles per league = 13 miles)---think think think…

A sunken bar or island max 10 feet deep is what I saw on old chart. Maybe shallower back then?

 

[ivan salis]

arc as any Spanish speaker KNOWS LA is simple "the " as in THE PERSA