Selling a intriguing shipreck manuscript of a US MILITARY SHIP FROM CIVIL WAR, POSSIBLE TREASURE!

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bjcvieira

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I was staggered by some of the responses here. I have no interest in a treasure hunt off the African coast and it's difficult to comment sensibly on your particular document with the low level of detail you provided... but I wouldn't put much faith in anyone who claims to "specialize in civil war" but doesn't have a valid answer why a civil war ship could be found in Africa. There's one excellent reason, but it has nothing to do with treasure.

Various sloops-of-war, frigates and other US warships of the Union served in the “Africa Squadron” in the lead-up to the Civil War. The USS Marion operated on the African coast between 1853-1855 and 1858-1860; USS Vincennes between 1857-60; USS Jacinto between 1859-1860; USS Portsmouth between 1859-61; USS Mystic between 1860-1861; USS Mohican between 1860-1861; USS Sumpter between 1860-1861. The squadron’s flagship was USS Constellation from 1859-1861.

The main purpose of the squadron was to disrupt the illegal trade of slaves from Africa into America by capturing slaver vessels along the coast of West Africa operated by or on behalf of merchants in the Southern states and profiteers in New York. Several of the African ports used for illegal embarkation of slaves were under Portuguese control. Although slavery was still legal in America at the time, US involvement in the Atlantic slave trade by importation had been banned by Congress on 2nd March 1807 (effective 1st January 1808).

A number of the Africa Squadron vessels remained on station along the West African coast during the first few months of the Civil War but were progressively recalled to America to assist in the war effort in general and the blockade of Southern ports in particular. The blockade was crippling to the economy and war effort of the Southern states and so the Confederacy retaliated by sending ‘Commerce Raider’ ships to Africa in order to capture merchant ships and their cargoes destined for the Union. Notably, among others, the CSS Alabama operating in tandem with CSS Tuscaloosa until about September of 1863. The Confederacy hoped to draw the Union into deploying more ships to Africa to protect merchant shipping and weaken the blockade. Astute management of resources and a mammoth shipbuilding program enabled the Union to actually steadily strengthen the blockade, although they did send a few additional ships to Africa to hunt down and destroy the few remaining Confederate raiders and privateers.
Hello,

Its normal that the level of detail i provide is not much, i am protecting the future investor/buyer of the manuscript.

Its not a Africa Squadron vessel, its a vessel made posterior to that, a few years later, so your information is interesting but i had already research it and not consider it.

But thanks!
 
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bjcvieira

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I'm interested. Do you own the "document" or does another party? If you own it, when and how did you acquire the document?
Hello,

If you are interested in it, we should talk private, i do own the document, i am a private colector, i collect old rare books and manuscripts. I know what i have in my hands, i have confirmed from the paper to the seal, signatures, the persons etc.... this document was "ignored" for so many years because it was writen in portuguese and nobody realized the interest for american civil war history.
 
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Tnmountains

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Well I see that I was the one that did that reference.
So in #4 I stated that he wrote fiction on his historical knowledge.

So you think otherwise?

I really don't believe that the Dirk Pitt, or Rudy were actual real people.
Clive Cussler is a brilliant author that builds a novel around historical research. Period.
How is that wrong?
Oh come on I thought they were real.You are not wrong. He did find many historical wrecks though.
🤣
 

Magoopeter

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Hello,

Its normal that the level of detail i provide is not much, i am protecting the future investor/buyer of the manuscript.

Its not a Africa Squadron vessel, its a vessel made posterior to that, a few years later, so your information is interesting but i had already research it and not consider it.

But thanks

Hello,

Its normal that the level of detail i provide is not much, i am protecting the future investor/buyer of the manuscript.

Its not a Africa Squadron vessel, its a vessel made posterior to that, a few years later, so your information is interesting but i had already research it and not consider it.

But thanks!

Hello,

Its normal that the level of detail i provide is not much, i am protecting the future investor/buyer of the manuscript.

Its not a Africa Squadron vessel, its a vessel made posterior to that, a few years later, so your information is interesting but i had already research it and not consider it.

But thanks!
There is nothing unusual in the fact An American ship sunk of Africa, the British sunk many of them of the African coast.

There was trade to the Americas before America was ever a country and it never stopped the flags of the ships may have changed, trade, privateering and War at sea continued so did the practice of ships of war escorting merchant fleets were there was a risk from other nations taking them as prizes or sinking them to harm trade or commerce of the United Sates.

Be carful to that this is not a sociable letter, many of those are complete fiction such is the case of the Merchant Royall said to be the richest ship ever sank, how ever it is a work of fiction.
 

barney

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Not to be Debby Downer, but ignoring the veracity of this document, I am not sure why anyone would want to spend any money on this due to the fact you are supposedly talking about a USN ship. I would think that would be a non-starter for any serious treasure hunter in and of itself.
 

GoDeep

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it includes the signatures of the US sailors, of the USA representative in that country (with leftover of legal stamp) and local authorities signatures, this document is 100% legit and proves without any doubt that this ship sunk, no indication of the cargo is ever mentioned.

Cool, to begin, i need a picture of the signature page with legal stamp described above to help me authenticate before committing to come examine and purchase it (remember, i'm in the USA, and going to have pay significant funds just to travel to examine and possibly purchase it). You can post it here or private message me with it.

The signature page won't give away the contents of the manuscript, so it shouldn't be a problem if you just want to post it here. I'm sure many potential buyers would appreciate it too.

Thank you.
 

marconi beach

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Not to be Debby Downer, but ignoring the veracity of this document, I am not sure why anyone would want to spend any money on this due to the fact you are supposedly talking about a USN ship. I would think that would be a non-starter for any serious treasure hunter in and of itself.
I have to second Barney's caveat about a US Navy ship. If this is true I assure you they will do whatever they can to halt salvage of a Navy vessel.


Marconibeach
 

eyemustdigtreasure

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Serious investigators contact in PM, this is a unique oportunity the information i am posting is 100% confirmed all the document was reviewed, from the paper to the signatures, to the persons envolved.
Hi,
What is that red thing?
A wax Seal....?
Thnx
 
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bjcvieira

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There is nothing unusual in the fact An American ship sunk of Africa, the British sunk many of them of the African coast.

There was trade to the Americas before America was ever a country and it never stopped the flags of the ships may have changed, trade, privateering and War at sea continued so did the practice of ships of war escorting merchant fleets were there was a risk from other nations taking them as prizes or sinking them to harm trade or commerce of the United Sates.

Be carful to that this is not a sociable letter, many of those are complete fiction such is the case of the Merchant Royall said to be the richest ship ever sank, how ever it is a work of fiction.
It unusual because its a war vessel and because the navy archives are wrong about its final destination.
 
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bjcvieira

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Cool, to begin, i need a picture of the signature page with legal stamp described above to help me authenticate before committing to come examine and purchase it (remember, i'm in the USA, and going to have pay significant funds just to travel to examine and possibly purchase it). You can post it here or private message me with it.

The signature page won't give away the contents of the manuscript, so it shouldn't be a problem if you just want to post it here. I'm sure many potential buyers would appreciate it too.

Thank you.
Dear Sir,

I think you did not understand something, i am not interesting in somebody that will "authenticate" the document, the document is already authenticated by professionals, the paper, the ink the historical figures... etc.. all i said here is 100% warranted, you have my word on that, somebody with the means to conduct a investigation/treasure hunt on this issue will not have problems to fund a trip to portugal to see the document, you can bring a manuscript specialist too.

To show you the signatures page is to reveal at least the name of the ship, because the signatures can be compared with usa navy archives, that is something that will decrease the value of the document immediately.

The description of the document is made, i can do a remote call and answer any of your questions, but to reveal any other thing is out of question, i do not even know if you have the finantial capacity to buy it.

By the way, i have posted a picture (bad quality) of the USA consul seal the document has.

regards,
Bruno Vieira
 

MiddenMonster

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Its normal that the level of detail i provide is not much, i am protecting the future investor/buyer of the manuscript.

I agree, but you can provide a fair amount of detail without giving away the store. It should be relatively easy to either scan the document or take a picture of it, them redact the key parts with black bars to cover up the information. Just leave enough detail so people looking at it can at least make an observation as to its authenticity, i.e masthead, signatures, etc. I think the big problem, as others have pointed out is that if this is a Navy ship, anything on it is government property. People have had to forfeit cannon from the War of 1812 because the cannon were stamped as belonging to the government. Makes it a tough sell to get people to shell out money for a document that leads to defeat, even if it is real.
 

GoDeep

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the document is already authenticated by professionals, the paper, the ink the historical figures... etc.. all i said here is 100%

Excellent to hear that you have had it authenticated by professionals!

Can you please post up or message me their findings and their authentication certificate?

Also, the wax seal means little as we have no way to verify what it came off of. Is that the document under the wax seal in the picture you posted?
 
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bjcvieira

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I agree, but you can provide a fair amount of detail without giving away the store. It should be relatively easy to either scan the document or take a picture of it, them redact the key parts with black bars to cover up the information. Just leave enough detail so people looking at it can at least make an observation as to its authenticity, i.e masthead, signatures, etc. I think the big problem, as others have pointed out is that if this is a Navy ship, anything on it is government property. People have had to forfeit cannon from the War of 1812 because the cannon were stamped as belonging to the government. Makes it a tough sell to get people to shell out money for a document that leads to defeat, even if it is real.
True and i decide to provide, i understand that is dificult to "believe" without any more solid prooft. About the treasure it may have, that is not my concern, i only intend to sell the manuscript, how the buyer will use and for what is not my concern.
 
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bjcvieira

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Excellent to hear that you have had it authenticated by professionals!

Can you please post up or message me their findings and their authentication certificate?

Also, the wax seal means little as we have no way to verify what it came off of. Is that the document under the wax seal in the picture you posted?
The authentication certificate is available to see with the document as it reveals information about the document and information about the a person who saw it. About the findings take in consideration that the authentication is most about the paper, the ink, the style etc... not about the "contents", nobody can certify the Text contents! but The signatures were indeed compared to navy archives. The expert concluded this is a 19th century document, it was made with watermark paper (made in Lisbon for oficialized documents), the ink, the letter and speel type and all consistent with the 19th century, the contents refer to a shipreck of a usa navy ship at a portuguese territory in africa, its a oficial declaration of shipreck.

I decided i have litle to loose by giving some signatures and the document main front so i will post it, even if you find the name o the vessel it will be in the navy archives as dismantle so....
 
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bjcvieira

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The authentication certificate is available to see with the document as it reveals information about the document and information about the a person who saw it. About the findings take in consideration that the authentication is most about the paper, the ink, the style etc... not about the "contents", nobody can certify the Text contents! but The signatures were indeed compared to navy archives. The expert concluded this is a 19th century document, it was made with watermark paper (made in Lisbon for oficialized documents), the ink, the letter and speel type and all consistent with the 19th century, the contents refer to a shipreck of a usa navy ship at a portuguese territory in africa, its a oficial declaration of shipreck.

I decided i have litle to loose by giving some signatures and the document main front so i will post it, even if you find the name o the vessel it will be in the navy archives as dismantle so....
This is the front document, it has the date and then in portuguese i will try to translate "Declaration of shipreck of the american "brigadier" NAME...."
 

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bjcvieira

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This is the front document, it has the date and then in portuguese i will try to translate "Declaration of shipreck of the american "brigadier" NAME...."
These are signatures at the end of the document, the document explains what happens, where, how and and when, then there is a declaration/swear of "true" and several signatures below, from the crew of the vessel (see picture), local authorites and some other persons that i think are from other local vessels that saw the shipreck and helped the americans, there also somebody that is a oficial american authority at the remote location, 2 seals, 1 i already posted the other is very damaged. Thats the maximum i can do to satisfy everyones curiosity without revealing the core things.
 

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MiddenMonster

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True and i decide to provide, i understand that is dificult to "believe" without any more solid prooft. About the treasure it may have, that is not my concern, i only intend to sell the manuscript, how the buyer will use and for what is not my concern.

No argument there; as the original poster and seller you are in total control of what we see. And to your credit, posting those pictures should provide some help to anyone who is interested. Without doing that, it would have been like me posting something along the lines of, "I have a car for sale. It's a Dodge. Who's interested". But by far the biggest hurdle you face is getting someone to pay for information to a potential treasure that in all likelihood, they won't be allowed to keep. Even if the cargo is just steel silverware, it's the property of the United States government until they say otherwise. And if it's something valuable, it's pretty much certain they won't say otherwise. So in that sense, your buyer market is limited to people who have historical/glory/publicity motives. The people hoping to score something monetarily valuable are going to get scooped by the Feds should they find anything.
 

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