Senner's Gold topic...

[Dozer2244]

Anyone who knows anything about something will tell you all the people who use Google earth to explore the Supes are an Interesting breed.
Back in 2013 very beginning of July is when I first heard of AL Senner.We were searching for Kenneth Clark at first water.I was the last person to see him alive on the trail.Thats what made me run into Tom.
He asked me if I was a Dutch hunter and I said not really.Thats when he looked up to the mountain and told me In great detail the AL Senners story.
I verified his grave and went up from west Boulder which is the route they took up horses.
If anyone is interested in going let me know.But until you explore the Supes on foot you really have not a clue about anything.

 

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[markmar]

Kraig,

I know that is the generally accepted version of what happened, but that is not the story that Tom told some of us several years ago.

Tom said a lady from (IIRC) The Globe Historical Society called him one day and said that they just received a donation of a chest. In that chest was a diary that she believed Tom might find interesting. THAT is where Tom said the diary came from. I know its not as romantic or interesting as finding it behind the floor molding in an old home in Prescott., but there you go. The only other person that I remember was there when we were talking about it was Bob Corbin. The only possible way for the generally accepted story to have happened would have been for the chest to have been found in the house, and then given to the Globe Historical Society, but either way Tom was not the one that found it.

Three people beat that story to death for about ten years were Tom Kollenborn, Bob Corbin, and Ron Feldman. I had always believed that if THOSE THREE (LOL) spent ten years on a story that only involves only a small area, then it was either BS or they found it and kept it quiet, which to me made sense because they wouldn't have a book published on the subject if they were still looking for it. After Tom passed, I was speaking to Bob Corbin the evening of his Memorial at LDSP (Lost Dutchman State Park), and I specifically asked him about it. Bob told me in no uncertain terms that none of them had found it, and it is still on Flatiron somewhere.

Regarding how he got the horse up to Flatiron; the back way across Massacre Grounds is the way to take a horse to the top. I did hear a great theory that Potbelly Jim had. He thinks it is possible that the rich float ore that Silverlock & Malm found at Massacre Grounds was actually a stash of some of Senner's Gold. Since the entire story about the cavalry sergeant (don't remember his name) found a skeleton under a bush that was dressed and had a small poke tucked under his belt containing hand cobbled rich ore was complete BS, I give Jim's Idea a lot of weight. There is a crap-ton more evidence of The Senner Story than anything to do with a Mexican Massacre there.

Don't get me wrong. I found the family of Pedro Peralta (lone massacre survivor). The family didn't know anything about the massacre (they were all from Pedro's Wife's side of the family, so they didn't know a ton about the Peralta Side). They said that for some reason, Pedro suddenly left Sonora, and moved to the area around Cabo San Lucas at the Southern Tip of Baja Mexico, where he met and married their Great Grandmother. He would never even travel to Sonora as he thought there was some kind of family curse (wouldn't explain). Any relatives that wanted to visit had to go to Baja.

Mike

Mike
IMHO, the Silverlock-Malm, William Edwards ( the sergeant ) and Senner, are three different stories with three different locations.
I believe Tom Kollenborn had enough clues to made him go to the west summit of the Superstition Mt.

There are some accounts which say there was a massacre, so what Silverlock and Malm have found at the Massacre Grounds could been a part from a pack mule loaded with gold ore, which has fell or was threw to the ground.

The Edwards story was real. He was an Army scout and traced the massacre signs to the Mexican camp in Marsh Valley. The only " lie " in his story is he changed little the location where he found the arrastras and he didn't mention he found a mine. When later he met with his Army friend who together have seen the first signs of a massacre at the Massacre Grounds, he told him what has found and his friend said he has found the same things when he traced alone at another date. So, they decided to stake a claim, together with another Army officer, but his friend got killed by an Apache at Fort McDowell. Why to stake a claim if there wouldn't be a mine? The mine was in the " possession " of Edwards and his descendants, until the secret was passed to the camp friends and to this day is known only to very few people.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Mike
IMHO, the Silverlock-Malm, William Edwards ( the sergeant ) and Senner, are three different stories with three different locations.
I believe Tom Kollenborn had enough clues to made him go to the west summit of the Superstition Mt.

There are some accounts which say there was a massacre, so what Silverlock and Malm have found at the Massacre Grounds could been a part from a pack mule loaded with gold ore, which has fell or was threw to the ground.

The Edwards story was real. He was an Army scout and traced the massacre signs to the Mexican camp in Marsh Valley. The only " lie " in his story is he changed little the location where he found the arrastras and he didn't mention he found a mine. When later he met with his Army friend who together have seen the first signs of a massacre at the Massacre Grounds, he told him what has found and his friend said he has found the same things when he traced alone at another date. So, they decided to stake a claim, together with another Army officer, but his friend got killed by an Apache at Fort McDowell. Why to stake a claim if there wouldn't be a mine? The mine was in the " possession " of Edwards and his descendants, until the secret was passed to the camp friends and to this day is known only to very few people.

Markmar

If there's anything you might be able to add, to what's already known regarding the Senner's gold story - I would be honored to hear the details. Coffee's out
-Spartanoc

 

[markmar]

Markmar

If there's anything you might be able to add, to what's already known regarding the Senner's gold story - I would be honored to hear the details. Coffee's out
-Spartanoc

I have nothing to add in regards to Senner's gold story.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Anyone who knows anything about something will tell you all the people who use Google earth to explore the Supes are an Interesting breed.
Back in 2013 very beginning of July is when I first heard of AL Senner.We were searching for Kenneth Clark at first water.I was the last person to see him alive on the trail.Thats what made me run into Tom.
He asked me if I was a Dutch hunter and I said not really.Thats when he looked up to the mountain and told me In great detail the AL Senners story.
I verified his grave and went up from west Boulder which is the route they took up horses.
If anyone is interested in going let me know.But until you explore the Supes on foot you really have not a clue about anything.

Dozer224

Did you ever get a chance to go out?

-SpartanOC

 

[Garry]

The source for the story of Senner’s Gold resides almost totally with Tom Kollenborn. In trying to research the characters, timeframe etc. there may be a Tom Kollenborn related document that I have never seen and I’m hoping for some help.

I was reading an old thread (2009) on the old Feldman site.

The poster was buscar who started the thread and this is an excerpt from his first post.

It is assumed that the reader has read Thomas Kollenborn’s booklet, Al Senner’s Lost Gold of Superstition Mountain and/or Helen Corbin’s book, “Senner’s Gold”

Buscar’s mention of Tom Kollenborn’s booklet is intriguing. I’m aware of Tom’s version of Senner’s Gold in his chronicles (2001) and his (2008) version in his book “Superstition Mountain In The Footsteps Of the Dutchman”. but it sounds like this may be something different and it may have been created in the time fame of Helen’s book, “Senner’s Gold” (1993).

I checked Doug Stewart’s site, and he lists a Tom Kollenborn pamphlet "Legends and Lore, Facts and Fiction of the Superstition Mountains." First Addition, 1995. It is only 12 pages and the contents are not referenced.

I’m wondering if it could have been a Superstition Mountain Historical Society pamphlet publication, I know there were several and they covered a lot of the LDM stories.

Greg, I suspect if anyone is familiar with this booklet, it would be you. Do you think buscar is referring to the Doug Stewart pamphlet and if so, does that pamphlet contain some reference to the Senner story? OR is buscar’s reference something entirely different?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Garry

 

[Idahodutch]

The source for the story of Senner’s Gold resides almost totally with Tom Kollenborn. In trying to research the characters, timeframe etc. there may be a Tom Kollenborn related document that I have never seen and I’m hoping for some help.

I was reading an old thread (2009) on the old Feldman site.

The poster was buscar who started the thread and this is an excerpt from his first post.

It is assumed that the reader has read Thomas Kollenborn’s booklet, Al Senner’s Lost Gold of Superstition Mountain and/or Helen Corbin’s book, “Senner’s Gold”

Buscar’s mention of Tom Kollenborn’s booklet is intriguing. I’m aware of Tom’s version of Senner’s Gold in his chronicles (2001) and his (2008) version in his book “Superstition Mountain In The Footsteps Of the Dutchman”. but it sounds like this may be something different and it may have been created in the time fame of Helen’s book, “Senner’s Gold” (1993).

I checked Doug Stewart’s site, and he lists a Tom Kollenborn pamphlet "Legends and Lore, Facts and Fiction of the Superstition Mountains." First Addition, 1995. It is only 12 pages and the contents are not referenced.

I’m wondering if it could have been a Superstition Mountain Historical Society pamphlet publication, I know there were several and they covered a lot of the LDM stories.

Greg, I suspect if anyone is familiar with this booklet, it would be you. Do you think buscar is referring to the Doug Stewart pamphlet and if so, does that pamphlet contain some reference to the Senner story? OR is buscar’s reference something entirely different?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Garry

Garry,
I know of the story, but have not gotten to know it intimately.
However, I do recall that supposedly, Al’s body,as well as his horse, were found, and that Al was identified because of the injury to his arm?

Would there be a sheriff’s report about Al’s body being found?

Sincerely,
Idahodutch