🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Some Kind of short sword?

[Hbot37]

I found this in the yard of a house built in 1795. The builder fought as a loyalist in the revolutionary war. In later years, residents also fought for the confederacy. I found this shoved vertically into the ground in the side yard. It’s very short, and rusted into the scabbard. I know nothing about swords and can’t find anything online.

 

[Hbot37]

Lightning grounding rods are made of iron or steel bars with a copper sheath. Any wood frame house built in 1795 would have at least one and usually several lightning rods and ground points.

Today the copper sheath on the iron is just a thick copper electroplate but prior to 1900 the copper sheath was a sheet of copper wrapped around an iron rod.

Often when the rod was pounded into the ground a rock or other obstruction would cause the copper sheath to bend.

Your picture resembles other lightning ground rods I've seen. All we have is a picture to go by. You see a child's sword, I see a ground rod. Without more information all we have is what we see.

None of it is copper.

 

[Hbot37]

Just the tip

 

[1637]

maybe used to pick a pot off a fire and other thing looks like a small tubing bender

 

[Clay Diggins]

None of it is copper.

What is the outside composed of?

 

[Hbot37]

What is the outside composed of?

Iron

 

[Clay Diggins]

Iron

Good information.

Is it austenitic iron? Does a magnet stick to it?

 

[Hbot37]

Good information.

Is it austenitic iron? Does a magnet stick to it?

Yes

 

[hollARDog]

Ida yanked it out by now🤘

 

[Hbot37]

Ida yanked it out by now🤘

I would if I could. Gonna run it through some electrolysis here in the next couple of days to try to loosen it up a little

 

[Mud Hut]

Lightning grounding rods are made of iron or steel bars with a copper sheath. Any wood frame house built in 1795 would have at least one and usually several lightning rods and ground points.

Today the copper sheath on the iron is just a thick copper electroplate but prior to 1900 the copper sheath was a sheet of copper wrapped around an iron rod.

Often when the rod was pounded into the ground a rock or other obstruction would cause the copper sheath to bend.

Your picture resembles other lightning ground rods I've seen. All we have is a picture to go by. You see a child's sword, I see a ground rod. Without more information all we have is what we see.

Maybe it is a child's sword that was used as a ground rod, or vice versa.

 

[hollARDog]

I was thinking souvenir sword🤘

 

[Retired Sarge]

I don't see the provisions for the Suspension Rings on the "Scabbard" for attachment to the sword hanger straps. The tip looks like a ball, I don't know of any swords with a Ball Finial at the end, doesn't mean they don't exsist. I know they have Drags, and Chapes, Crests, etc on the tip of the scabbard depending on the style.

I know there are bayonet scabbards that have a Ball Finial. But there are not many bayonets that are curved. I went through my collection of rifles and bayonets and I have only one curved like a sword. The Chassepot/Yataghan style sword bayonet, there could be others. It has a 22 1/2 inch blade and a total length of 27 1/2 inches from the pommel to the tip.

 

[Hbot37]

I don't see the provisions for the Suspension Rings on the "Scabbard" for attachment to the sword hanger straps. The tip looks like a ball, I don't know of any swords with a Ball Finial at the end, doesn't mean they don't exsist. I know they have Drags, and Chapes, Crests, etc on the tip of the scabbard depending on the style.

I know there are bayonet scabbards that have a Ball Finial. But there are not many bayonets that are curved. I went through my collection of rifles and bayonets and I have only one curved like a sword. The Chassepot/Yataghan style sword bayonet, there could be others. It has a 22 1/2 inch blade and a total length of 27 1/2 inches from the pommel to the tip.

View attachment 2053934 View attachment 2053933

Thanks for the info, I think right now I am leaning towards it being some kind of childs play sword? I am hoping with some electrolysis I can pull the blade out and maybe get an ID on what it is. I'm starting to think it may not even be a blade in there and could be something else entirely, but we'll see.

 

[callmez]

Looking at the opening and the lengthwise seam of the "sheath" (?) in photo #3 of post #19. That is an iron/steel "sheath" and not a leather sheath with raised, stitched seam? Does it look like the cross section of the "blade" might be triangular?

 

[Hbot37]

Looking at the opening and the lengthwise seam of the "sheath" (?) in photo #3 of post #19. That is an iron/steel "sheath" and not a leather sheath with raised, stitched seam? Does it look like the cross section of the "blade" might be triangular?

You are correct, it is an iron or steel scabbard. I am not sure about the shape of the blade yet. I will have a better idea when I pull it out of the electrolysis tank tonight and can post some pics of it looking a bit cleaner.

 

[Hbot37]

Got it out of the electrolysis tank and took some pics with most of the rust off. I still can’t pull it out so if anyone has any ideas then let me know. There’s a hole in the tip, which is the only new development. Nothing on the tang. I’m gonna stick with “child’s play sword” unless anyone has a better idea.

 

[hollARDog]

Nice work so far🤘

 

[callmez]

Got it out of the electrolysis tank and took some pics with most of the rust off. I still can’t pull it out so if anyone has any ideas then let me know. There’s a hole in the tip, which is the only new development. Nothing on the tang. I’m gonna stick with “child’s play sword” unless anyone has a better idea.

The hole at the tip is interesting. My sense is that the correct identification has not yet been suggested.

 

[Hbot37]

The hole at the tip is interesting. My sense is that the correct identification has not yet been suggested.

I don't think it has either, starting to doubt I'll figure it out.