Spanish Treasure Hunters

[VOC]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-treasure-ships-b1645088.html

 

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[Crow]

Gidday amigo thanks for the post. Spain has a short memory. Thier actions of a Spanish navy salvage vessel does not have total access to Caribbean. Because they might be actually breaking the terms of the American Spanish treaty agreement in terms of surrender signed in Paris in 1899 after the 1898 Spanish American war?

Spain gave up posesion of thier last colonial possessions which include all assets on land and within the sea born boundaries of such territories. Thus a Spanish warship as the salvage ship is technically a navy vessel will still have ask permission to search any territory it ceeded in 1899. Any violation of claiming such wrecks within the sea born boundaries of such countries as per agreement would be breaking the 1899 Paris treaty.

Crow

 

[Darren in NC]

[FONT=&quot]Uses exact methods, crews and archaeologists to find and recover wrecks. But states, "The BAM-IS will help Spain safeguard its lost heritage from commercial treasure hunters."

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Dr. Leon (gov't archie) is currently investigating the whereabouts of the wreck of the San Jose, which sank off the coast of Panama laden with gold, silver and other precious metals."

Why? I thought it wasn't about treasure hunting. Hypocrites! Small difference between gov't sponsored privateers and pirates.




[/FONT]

 

[Denniss]

It will be interesting to see where those cultural treasures eventually end up

 

[Salvor6]

Colombia already knows the location of the San Jose and they claim it as THEIR cultural heritage since Spain stole the treasures from Colombia using slave labor.

 

[Mackaydon]

Hello Crow,
That said, could the 'Galga' and' Juno' decision still be reversed?
Don.....

 

[Crow]

Gidday Mackaydon

In regards to the Galga' and' Juno no, Because those shipwrecks are on American Territory and are not covered by 1899 treaty.

Under terms of surrender As the 1899 treaty in Paris covers only the then 1898 pre war Spanish territories of Cuba. Puerto Rico, Philippines and Marinas.

The Treaty of Paris provided for the independence of Cuba from Spain, but the Congress ensured indirect US control by the Platt Amendment and the Teller Agreement. Spain relinquished all claims of "sovereignty" over and title to Cuba. Upon Spain's departure.


The treaty also specified that Spain would cede Puerto Rico and the other islands under Spanish sovereignty in the West indies as well as the island of Guam in the Mariana Islands to the US.


The treaty also specified that Spain would cede the Philippine Islands, including the islands within a specified line, to the US, and that the United States would pay to Spain the sum of twenty million dollars. Specifics of the cession of the Philippines were later clarified by the 1900 by treaty of Washington.

In regards to other ex South American countries? Treaties signed In 1834 the Regnant Queen Isabella II of Spain decided that times had changed, that a more modern approach was needed, and started consulting other members of her government. On December 16, 1836 the Congress of Spain issued a decree authorizing the Spanish Government to renounce its territorial and sovereign claims over its domains in continental Americas.

Each ex Spanish colony had their own separate agreements.That process did not finish until 1904.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Colombia already knows the location of the San Jose and they claim it as THEIR cultural heritage since Spain stole the treasures from Colombia using slave labor.

Gidday Salvor6

'Sea Search Armada' (SSA) make some fundamental errors in their negotiations with Colombian government. They ended up shooting themselves in the foot. Now the Colombian government has found the location themselves 'Sea Search Armada' (SSA) is no longer in position to profit from the deal.

And Spain? No doubt they will wait for Columbia to go to expense salvaging the shipwreck then challenge the Colombian government for cultural patrimony. Failing that they will stall in the courts using the international underwater protection treaty of shipwrecked military vessel war graves.

Where theres treasure amigos evil and greed is never far away.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here is an interesting article on international maritime salvage law. It highlights the complexities that are ill defined and ambiguous

Crow

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1771&context=mjil

 

[Mackaydon]

Crow,
Many thanks for your learned response.
Don......

 

[Vox veritas]

In July 2003, Sea Hunt signed an agreement with the Spanish Ministry of Culture to recover "Juno" and "Galga". In this agreement, Spain recognized a prize of 50% of both shipwrecks. I personally managed this agreement. In 2012, as a representative of SEA Hunt, I officially requested confirmation of what was agreed in 2003, but I did not receive an official response.

 

[Capt.Betances]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-treasure-ships-b1645088.html

¿Que haces por aqui Claudio? Dile a tu amigo de Madrid que cumpla lo que me prometio por haberles ayudado con investigar a Odyssey.

 

[Vox veritas]

¿Que haces por aqui Claudio? Dile a tu amigo de Madrid que cumpla lo que me prometio por haberles ayudado con investigar a Odyssey.

What friend? What Odyssey? What do you speak?

 

[FISHEYE]

They havent even built the ship yet,spain will have to deal with UNESCO too.Spanish Navy To Build New Rescue Ship for Submarines, Planes & Shipwrecks

 

[ARC]

On a side note... And I think some of you may find it interesting... just for the heck of it.

I have heard a very interesting story through an anonymous source that the Mercedes fight was actually started as a backroom deal over a painting that was owned by a powerful family that they wanted returned.

Validity ?... none.

Just what I have heard on the winds.

 

[Salvor6]

I heard the same thing.

 

[agflit]

The court battle surrounding a Spanish frigate dating to the 1700s
that fought sea battles in the Caribbean, was filled with Andean silver
and gold, and sunk off the coast of Gibraltar became even more outrageous in late 2010. WikiLeaks released diplomatic cables written in “the
careful language of international diplomacy” between the U.S. Ambassador to Spain and the Spanish Cultural Minister.57 Odyssey Marine
claimed that the ambassador offered to assist Spain in recouping the
Mercedes treasure in exchange for help returning an 1897 Pissarro painting to a California family.58 The painting, valued up to $20 million, was
allegedly seized in Germany by Nazis and is now located in a Madrid
museum.59 In response to this disclosure, Kathy Castor, the House Representative for Florida’s Eleventh District, penned a letter to Secretary of
State Hillary Clinton in support of Odyssey Marine’s case, and
requested an investigation into the allegations.60 No further investigation
into the matter has been publicized.

 

[agflit]

Duplicate post

 

[PDY25]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-us-spain-treasure-art

Here is more info on the painting and the backroom deal for those interested

 

[xaos]

I have heard a very interesting story through an anonymous source that the Mercedes fight was actually started as a backroom deal over a painting that was owned by a powerful family that they wanted returned.

As PDY noted...

the "deal" was attempted after the find and the fight, not before it.