"The Lue Map and the Nazi Connection -2. Continuation of the topic."

OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
168
94
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #141
Yeah, the guy I mentioned had a similar experience - found the Ahaz structure, got inspired, then ran hard with it until, immersed in circular arguments, he gave up. I searched for that old 90s website yesterday (standalone for "LUE research", as I recall) but had no results. As you know, all search engines today are impotent shadows of what they used to provide before they became primarily propaganda tools and sales pitches.
Therefore, the value of libraries and their archives will never lose its significance.
 

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,386
8,110
Primary Interest:
Other
I'm currently reading this


which claims, based on OSS & CIA docs, that Heinrich lived until 1983 and was coveted by USINT for his unparalleled knowledge of Soviet Intelligence. It includes transcripts from his CIA job interviews. I admit that even in the same light that Nazi's were recruited by the British & Americans to fight Communism, I'm surprised that someone so integral to the Holocaust was employed by the CIA. But... the stakes (Communism vs Western Civ) were never higher and the ends justified the means (so they say..)

This book does have a foreword and accolades by a number of authority figures, including Prof. Frank Thayer of NMU and several military & civilian intelligence officials
Many Americans openly supported the Nazi regime prior to our entry into WWII. After the war, we courted and collected many of their top scientists for our own uses - those that allegedly didn't relocate to Antarctica anyway.

Thayer was a strange duck. He lived in Silver City back in the 70s. I remember his collection of Nazi memorabilia and the Southwest horror novels he wrote, some tied to little-known treasure legends in the area.
 
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
168
94
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #144
An aircraft co-worker of mine who had recently been elevated to a dispatcher was given me and another member working orders based on his knowledge. I explained to him that it wasn’t going to happen because I had more knowledge and a better explanation of what was the right thing to do! I said I’m going to have to override you on this one, with a smile on my face. He was lost in words, surprised and smiling because I was right! The other co-worker was laughing saying I was right and That I was going to override him! We both were laughing at him and he was smiling because he is a good sport of a friend! The point is that I’m going to override this thread and start another one that will have a better understanding of the German Nazi Lue cipher treasure map?
Ramiro Valdez, my friend, where have you gone? I miss your energy and determination. I hope that everything is fine with him, the last message was 15. 06. 22. and after that he did not appear in the profile (I'm worried about him).
 
Last edited:

Jenks89

Newbie
Aug 25, 2022
1
2
I've always heard The Lue was deciphered with the dollar bill seal? Did a little search today I realized the first Colorado state seal had a couple similarities..I'm just now diving into this so this may just be a coincidence.
 

Ryano

Hero Member
Feb 16, 2014
689
1,128
Charlotte, NC
Primary Interest:
Cache Hunting
Many Americans openly supported the Nazi regime prior to our entry into WWII. After the war, we courted and collected many of their top scientists for our own uses - those that allegedly didn't relocate to Antarctica anyway.

Thayer was a strange duck. He lived in Silver City back in the 70s. I remember his collection of Nazi memorabilia and the Southwest horror novels he wrote, some tied to little-known treasure legends in the area.

Sdcfia, thanks for your notes on Thayer. I thought his name had a ring of familiarity. It's only fairly recently I've discovered an interest in the Southwest US region, so I must have seen his name in the horror/sci-fi genre of which I was an avid consumer for many years.

When the author of that Schellenburg book I linked to earnestly explained that Zyklon B was merely an effective delousing agent not meant to poison, I figured i was reading Nazi apologia. It did go into detail about the Gehlen spies but I did not bother attempting to validate veracity, all I was looking for was evidence of a gold plot, or really any WW2 financial scheme Involving German espionage (I found none).

Sergei - are you going to continue with explaining your solution ? Thanks
 
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
168
94
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #147
Sdcfia, thanks for your notes on Thayer. I thought his name had a ring of familiarity. It's only fairly recently I've discovered an interest in the Southwest US region, so I must have seen his name in the horror/sci-fi genre of which I was an avid consumer for many years.

When the author of that Schellenburg book I linked to earnestly explained that Zyklon B was merely an effective delousing agent not meant to poison, I figured i was reading Nazi apologia. It did go into detail about the Gehlen spies but I did not bother attempting to validate veracity, all I was looking for was evidence of a gold plot, or really any WW2 financial scheme Involving German espionage (I found none).

Sergei - are you going to continue with explaining your solution ? Thanks
Greetings my friend Ryano and thank you. Yes, of course, let's continue. You have done a great job learning the material. With your help, I hope everyone has already understood that the symbol of the sun and steps is the Sundial. But until you, or someone else, tells me the correct time on the clock, there is no point in continuing.
 

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,386
8,110
Primary Interest:
Other
Greetings my friend Ryano and thank you. Yes, of course, let's continue. You have done a great job learning the material. With your help, I hope everyone has already understood that the symbol of the sun and steps is the Sundial. But until you, or someone else, tells me the correct time on the clock, there is no point in continuing.
OK, S3, since you're seemingly fishing for clues, I'll help with the cartoon "map" - following the apparent path you're on, based on your hints.

If you assume the sun's position directly above the staircase (a vertical sunray) is meant to symbolically indicate a local approximate time in Giza, Egypt, then, as you indicated, call it roughly 9am. This correlates to midnight in the Mountain Standard time zone, which I assume is one of the reasons a few folks assume the "treasure location" is in New Mexico or Colorado (along with Miller's hype).

Why Giza? The symbology is apparent. Longitude is a time measurement and the Great Pyramid was 0 degrees longitude in ancient times when navigators were able to determine precise positions based on precise time observations. Why is midnight important? Because the observations were of precise star positions in the ecliptic taken at exactly midnight. A daytime sunshot at exactly noon was timed with precise sand and/or water clocks to establish the 12 hour offset - exactly midnight for a nightime star observation.

What stars? The navigators of course had source information from the database collected and collated at Giza. With an ephemeris, a navigator's precise time offset (longitude) was then able to be determined. (By the way, the central American data collected at numerous observatories also helped as the "new world" was exploited)

OK, back to the "map". You need to pick some specific stars to be observed, with their declinations, let's say both in Egypt at midnight and in the Mountain time zone at midnight. You'll need a proper ephemeris or computer program to then determine the time offset between the two. Maybe an astronomer can help. If you can do all this, then you have your longitude. Maybe that's what the intersection parabolas represent - two star paths. Theoretically any two stars from any two locations should work as long as the time of observations are the same. But for the sake of maintaining the Egyptian theme, let's go with a Giza midnight observation - sounds cooler.

Latitude? That's easy - a simple Polaris angle above the horizon. That angle information is also presumably given on the "map" - one of the many angles portrayed thereon. So now you have latitude and longitude, which in modern times are just a simple set of coordinates. This is why I suspect the "LUE Map" is a joke or a hoax - a complicated circular argument with countless potential solutions designed to confuse avid searchers. Coordinates can be coded in ways only known to those who "need to know". In the modern age, you don't need a "map" for that.
 
Last edited:

Ryano

Hero Member
Feb 16, 2014
689
1,128
Charlotte, NC
Primary Interest:
Cache Hunting
OK, S3, since you're seemingly fishing for clues, I'll help with the cartoon "map" - following the apparent path you're on, based on your hints.

If you assume the sun's position directly above the staircase (a vertical sunray) is meant to symbolically indicate a local approximate time in Giza, Egypt, then, as you indicated, call it roughly 9am. This correlates to midnight in the Mountain Standard time zone, which I assume is one of the reasons a few folks assume the "treasure location" is in New Mexico or Colorado (along with Miller's hype).

Why Giza? The symbology is apparent. Longitude is a time measurement and the Great Pyramid was 0 degrees longitude in ancient times when navigators were able to determine precise positions based on precise time observations. Why is midnight important? Because the observations were of precise star positions in the ecliptic taken at exactly midnight. A daytime sunshot at exactly noon was timed with precise sand and/or water clocks to establish the 12 hour offset - exactly midnight for a nightime star observation.

What stars? The navigators of course had source information from the database collected and collated at Giza. With an ephemeris, a navigator's precise time offset (longitude) was then able to be determined. (By the way, the central American data collected at numerous observatories also helped as the "new world" was exploited)

OK, back to the "map". You need to pick some specific stars to be observed, with their declinations, let's say both in Egypt at midnight and in the Mountain time zone at midnight. You'll need a proper ephemeris or computer program to then determine the time offset between the two. Maybe an astronomer can help. If you can do all this, then you have your longitude. Maybe that's what the intersection parabolas represent - two star paths. Theoretically any two stars from any two locations should work as long as the time of observations are the same. But for the sake of maintaining the Egyptian theme, let's go with a Giza midnight observation - sounds cooler.

Latitude? That's easy - a simple Polaris angle above the horizon. That angle information is also presumably given on the "map" - one of the many angles portrayed thereon. So now you have latitude and longitude, which in modern times are just a simple set of coordinates. This is why I suspect the "LUE Map" is a joke or a hoax - a complicated circular argument with countless potential solutions designed to confuse avid searchers. Coordinates can be coded in ways only known to those who "need to know". In the modern age, you don't need a "map" for that.
I always feel we get a bit closer to the truth when you're in the conversation.

Btw, interesting you mention the observatories in the Central Americas. KVM himself offered a LUE clue in that Nat Geo article written by an astronomer who noticed the Bighorn & Moose Mountain medicine wheels were mapped to solar and extrasolar alignments. Are you saying that the European conquerors co-opted observation data from the Mayans et al to improve their navigation and charting ?
 
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
168
94
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #150
OK, S3, since you're seemingly fishing for clues, I'll help with the cartoon "map" - following the apparent path you're on, based on your hints.

If you assume the sun's position directly above the staircase (a vertical sunray) is meant to symbolically indicate a local approximate time in Giza, Egypt, then, as you indicated, call it roughly 9am. This correlates to midnight in the Mountain Standard time zone, which I assume is one of the reasons a few folks assume the "treasure location" is in New Mexico or Colorado (along with Miller's hype).

Why Giza? The symbology is apparent. Longitude is a time measurement and the Great Pyramid was 0 degrees longitude in ancient times when navigators were able to determine precise positions based on precise time observations. Why is midnight important? Because the observations were of precise star positions in the ecliptic taken at exactly midnight. A daytime sunshot at exactly noon was timed with precise sand and/or water clocks to establish the 12 hour offset - exactly midnight for a nightime star observation.

What stars? The navigators of course had source information from the database collected and collated at Giza. With an ephemeris, a navigator's precise time offset (longitude) was then able to be determined. (By the way, the central American data collected at numerous observatories also helped as the "new world" was exploited)

OK, back to the "map". You need to pick some specific stars to be observed, with their declinations, let's say both in Egypt at midnight and in the Mountain time zone at midnight. You'll need a proper ephemeris or computer program to then determine the time offset between the two. Maybe an astronomer can help. If you can do all this, then you have your longitude. Maybe that's what the intersection parabolas represent - two star paths. Theoretically any two stars from any two locations should work as long as the time of observations are the same. But for the sake of maintaining the Egyptian theme, let's go with a Giza midnight observation - sounds cooler.

Latitude? That's easy - a simple Polaris angle above the horizon. That angle information is also presumably given on the "map" - one of the many angles portrayed thereon. So now you have latitude and longitude, which in modern times are just a simple set of coordinates. This is why I suspect the "LUE Map" is a joke or a hoax - a complicated circular argument with countless potential solutions designed to confuse avid searchers. Coordinates can be coded in ways only known to those who "need to know". In the modern age, you don't need a "map" for that.
And it's all? Your analysis is "far-fetched", made on only one understandable symbol of the Sundial. That is, in your opinion, it turns out that only two elements of the map are enough and you find out the coordinate point and the remaining elements do not play a role?
You, dear sdcfia, are confused, I do not catch your tips, but on the contrary, I give them to you! Oh my God, how much patience you need to have to wait until you, dear reader, were finally able to put two and two together. I have already, it would seem, provided you (chewed) with a simple visual answer. It would seem enough just to name the hour, but no, you still manage to get lost in the three pines. In your opinion, it turns out that a certain "joker" specially created this puzzle with "countless" solutions? Why did he need it? After all, he did not thereby gain authority (because he did not advertise his name), he did not even try to distract from something grandiose. So what do you think? Answers like yours, (I'll give you your first argument -"Concerning FDR's Gold Act of 1933 - this began the period during which so many US gold coins were allegedly melted down into bullion form and cached in numerous locations to avoid their confiscation by the government. This action may have been a coordinated effort by the former KGC organization, presumably a group with a long-term outlook on history and economics. carvings and other clue patterns, designed to mislead curious searchers away from the true cache sites. hoax perpetrated by Charles Dean Miller, as some of his alleged associates have claimed over the years.)". Can't stand criticism. You have already named the fourth (9-00), incorrect figure, out of fourteen (mean solar time). If you randomly select the time, by elimination, you will not be able to find a solution.
 
Last edited:

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,386
8,110
Primary Interest:
Other
I always feel we get a bit closer to the truth when you're in the conversation.

Btw, interesting you mention the observatories in the Central Americas. KVM himself offered a LUE clue in that Nat Geo article written by an astronomer who noticed the Bighorn & Moose Mountain medicine wheels were mapped to solar and extrasolar alignments. Are you saying that the European conquerors co-opted observation data from the Mayans et al to improve their navigation and charting ?
Yes, that's certainly an option, but with a twist. IMO, the 15th century European exploiters likely already knew the data existed - this assuming that the powers that be at that time were well-informed about true history prior to sponsoring the voyages. It's my working model that the "bearded white gods" who taught so much to the earlier Meso-Americans supervised the temple/observatory constructions and trained the natives in celestial navigation and documentation of the data. This is predicated on my belief that "Ancient Man" held advanced technical knowledge that Modern Man denies for political reasons. In any event, knowledge is power and precise navigation skills is top-drawer stuff.
 

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,386
8,110
Primary Interest:
Other
And it's all? Your analysis is "far-fetched", made on only one understandable symbol of the Sundial. That is, in your opinion, it turns out that only two elements of the map are enough and you find out the coordinate point and the remaining elements do not play a role?
You, dear sdcfia, are confused, I do not catch your tips, but on the contrary, I give them to you! Oh my God, how much patience you need to have to wait until you, dear reader, were finally able to put two and two together. I have already, it would seem, provided you (chewed) with a simple visual answer. It would seem enough just to name the hour, but no, you still manage to get lost in the three pines. In your opinion, it turns out that a certain "joker" specially created this puzzle with "countless" solutions? Why did he need it? After all, he did not thereby gain authority (because he did not advertise his name), he did not even try to distract from something grandiose. So what do you think? Answers like yours, (I'll give you your first argument -"Concerning FDR's Gold Act of 1933 - this began the period during which so many US gold coins were allegedly melted down into bullion form and cached in numerous locations to avoid their confiscation by the government. This action may have been a coordinated effort by the former KGC organization, presumably a group with a long-term outlook on history and economics. carvings and other clue patterns, designed to mislead curious searchers away from the true cache sites. hoax perpetrated by Charles Dean Miller, as some of his alleged associates have claimed over the years.)". Can't stand criticism. You have already named the fourth (9-00), incorrect figure, out of fourteen (mean solar time). If you randomly select the time, by elimination, you will not be able to find a solution.
Most disinformative treasure tales are at least based on known human beings who were documented being active in a known venue. The tales told are normally designed to misdirect. Why else would the story be shared? The "LUE" has lacked known actors and a known setting from its inception, seemingly created out of nothing.

You're the one fishing for help with the "LUE map", S3, not me. My Post #148 was only to provide food for thought for anyone who is interested in ancient navigational techniques. I will say one thing though: based on speculation you provided (red arrow "hour" in Post #122), I was surprised that a person might find himself in the US Mountain Time Zone. Since I don't believe in coincidences, it may indicate that Miller was quite a clever hoaxer.
 
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
168
94
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #153
Most disinformative treasure tales are at least based on known human beings who were documented being active in a known venue. The tales told are normally designed to misdirect. Why else would the story be shared? The "LUE" has lacked known actors and a known setting from its inception, seemingly created out of nothing.

You're the one fishing for help with the "LUE map", S3, not me. My Post #148 was only to provide food for thought for anyone who is interested in ancient navigational techniques. I will say one thing though: based on speculation you provided (red arrow "hour" in Post #122), I was surprised that a person might find himself in the US Mountain Time Zone. Since I don't believe in coincidences, it may indicate that Miller was quite a clever hoaxer.
Dear sdcfia, in fact I am glad that you are my critic, you are very helpful in the discussion. I repeat, I do not need hints, because the topic has no riddles for me. Your reasoning on the topic is logical, why should anyone suggest the direction of the search, if not for the purpose of diverting from the "real" direction. But here I have to ask you, why should I, in addition "to divert decryption in a false direction"? After all, for more than 80 years the topic has been "led" towards nonsense and did not need additional "disinformation". Explanations of the type - just to raise the topic again and stir up interest, do not stand up to criticism, since the topic has long been "beaten" and everyone is already fed up with the order. For what would just PR? But who am I that I would need PR? Or, for example, I would receive a fee for this if I published on a paid basis, but no. And by the way, the hour indicated on the map is not associated with any time zone, just a frozen picture of a clock with an insole at a specific hour. Only the number of the hour matters.
 
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
168
94
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #154
Opening the veil of secrecy (showing the direction in the correct decryption), I do not risk anything, since the complete decryption is really very difficult and needs the keys to this decryption. And as I said in the first thread of this thread, - "To decipher the map, you need to be or become "Otto" himself, the creator of the map. My first task is to show everyone that the "cartoon map" is actually a real document, and that she seems to have only one option to decipher, i.e. make everyone take her seriously.That's why, I will continue to make clues.
 

sdcfia

Silver Member
Sep 28, 2014
3,386
8,110
Primary Interest:
Other
Opening the veil of secrecy (showing the direction in the correct decryption), I do not risk anything, since the complete decryption is really very difficult and needs the keys to this decryption. And as I said in the first thread of this thread, - "To decipher the map, you need to be or become "Otto" himself, the creator of the map. My first task is to show everyone that the "cartoon map" is actually a real document, and that she seems to have only one option to decipher, i.e. make everyone take her seriously.That's why, I will continue to make clues.
RWLUE cooked up the "LUE-Nazi" idea back in the 90s. Poof, right out of his fertile imagination. Tayopa treasure hunter Don Jose (Joseph Curry, deceased) added submarines to the allegations some years ago, wedding the Nazi-LUE conspiracy to the "17 Tons of Mexican Gold" ruse. You hopped on the Nazi bandwagon back in 2020 and so far have added a complex German cast of characters and their unverifiable connection to Miller's old tale. Now it's the "map". If you've "solved" it, good for you and congratulations. Two years of trying to drum up a big response on TNet doesn't seem to be garnering a lot of feedback. Yeah, we (me, anyway) check in now and then to see if you've added any meat to the meal. Until that happens (going on two years), interest seems to wane. We like your spirit (well, I do anyway), but since this is your gig, maybe you ought to write a book revealing the treasure location, or better still, just go recover the loot. Either way, good luck.
 

Ryano

Hero Member
Feb 16, 2014
689
1,128
Charlotte, NC
Primary Interest:
Cache Hunting
To echo Sdcfia, if you could prove the existence of a Nazi plot that hid a load of gold stateside, complete with spy intrigue and treasure map . whether it's long been recovered or not, you would have a history-making story. The so-called "Nazi gold train" story appears to have lost steam again but with all the doom and gloom in the Press now is a good time as any to make your reveal to the world.
 
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
168
94
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #157
Hello, so today I was at my desk, and started day dreaming about hidden treasures, and started climbing down the rabbit hole of lost treasures in the US, and came across "The Lue Treasure Map." At first glance , I can see how this map could drive people insane, however after thinking about it for a little bit, I think I may have solved the map, and also can point out both its keys. The map clearly shows the exact location of what ever it is pointing to. Finding what that location is was not too difficult, and I believe I've narrowed it down to an interesting location. Oddly enough, the map does not indicate any such reference as to having relations to coordinates in the four corners area of the United States. With that being said, and after discovering the location, I can easily say it is extremely improbable to extract any artifacts from this location, however not impossible.
Late reply to comment #44.
Dear Lue Kangal, You are indeed quite astute, and seem to have come too close to deciphering. You are probably correct in guessing the burial place. It is unfortunate that I am somewhat incorrect ie. foggy, answered you. I'm late (my fault, I didn't pay close attention to the comment) and I want to note that Lue Kangal turned out to be the smartest in this discussion! Here is a real pretender for you, for leadership at the end of the search.
 
Last edited:
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
168
94
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #158
Dear Lue Kangal, I am ready to chat with you in private messages.
 

Randy Bradford

Sr. Member
Jun 27, 2004
433
751
RWLUE cooked up the "LUE-Nazi" idea back in the 90s. Poof, right out of his fertile imagination. Tayopa treasure hunter Don Jose (Joseph Curry, deceased) added submarines to the allegations some years ago, wedding the Nazi-LUE conspiracy to the "17 Tons of Mexican Gold" ruse. You hopped on the Nazi bandwagon back in 2020 and so far have added a complex German cast of characters and their unverifiable connection to Miller's old tale. Now it's the "map". If you've "solved" it, good for you and congratulations. Two years of trying to drum up a big response on TNet doesn't seem to be garnering a lot of feedback. Yeah, we (me, anyway) check in now and then to see if you've added any meat to the meal. Until that happens (going on two years), interest seems to wane. We like your spirit (well, I do anyway), but since this is your gig, maybe you ought to write a book revealing the treasure location, or better still, just go recover the loot. Either way, good luck.
THIS...so much this.

Honestly, you hit the nail on the head here and I'm glad I'm not the only one that fully recognizes that the Nazi connection is a complete fabrication to the LUE story, which frankly doesn't need anything else muddying the waters.
 
OP
Sergei 3

Sergei 3

Full Member
Sep 19, 2020
168
94
Thailand
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #160
THIS...so much this.

Honestly, you hit the nail on the head here and I'm glad I'm not the only one that fully recognizes that the Nazi connection is a complete fabrication to the LUE story, which frankly doesn't need anything else muddying the waters.
The topic seems to be of interest to you, but you do not agree with the interpretation. Well, I'm not asking anyone to take my word for it! Recognition and belief is not knowledge. Why am I saying this? Yes, all millet, I know, because I deciphered the document. You thereby assert that there is no connection between the card (not Luya, by the way, but Lu) with the Nazis. Justify then your position, using a detailed analysis. But since you are not capable, since you have not found anything on the Internet, it is conclusive to assert that my message is false, does not mean that it is not true. I was ready to continue my hints on this topic, but no one has named the exact time on the map (and this is the starting point for decoding), and for this I pause. .
 
Last edited:

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top