The Pearl Ship

Tom_in_CA

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... There's actually a lot of credibility to this old legend. ...
I would be a kill-joy skeptic and say that the "credibility" that you speak about, is merely the remote possibility of the ability. Ie.: to weave enough "what if's", and speculate "possibilities" and then your brain psychologically bolsters them because, .... gee .... it's *possible*.

So for example, in this case, you string together various salacious "what if's"

1) you note that mariner logs often do not survive today, of ancient voyages. Ok, sure. Granted. BUT THIS CAN BE SAID OF ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD , of historic times. Yet as you know, does NOT necessarily bode "treasure".

2) "unpredictable tidal bores and storms". Ok, sure. BUT THIS CAN BE SAID OF ANY OCEAN and history of the world. Yet does not necessarily bolter any particular individual treasure legend .... *just* because "storms occur". See ?

3) Lost ships and failed exploration attempts. Ok, sure. But welcome to the history of the east and west coast during European contact periods of those eras.

Heck, when storms erode the beach where I'm at (Monterey Bay) it's not unusual to see old ship ribbing sticking up out of the sand. From past boats and ships that were driven ashore during storms. But they're just ho -hum trawlers, fishing vessels, pleasure boats, etc.... That are no more than late 1800s in age, and have nothing at all to do with wealth or treasure etc.......

4) Have you been out to the Salton sea area ? I've spent a lot of time out there. Re. : Any speculation of "this was once underwater in the 1500s. And even after we toss in a few high tides, and storm bores to bolster the assertion, Yet when you look around at even the lowest elevation spots, you can never in a million years envision any ability of a ship (full of pearls no less) to just "happen chance" be able to get that far inland. You would have to have a very wild imagination, when looking at the lay of the land (and topographic maps) today.

Thus very "far" from credible.

The psychology that drives us to call these things "credible", is the same allure that, for example, makes so many people wax romantic about Oak Island : The faithful just toss out amazing speculations of motives, and amazing technological feats of *could have happened * (if you brought 100 slaves with you to dig, blah blah blah). And then presto, as long as you can find some far-fetched way something *could* have happened, then we all put skeptical critical analysis aside.

And the reason we do this, is that the lure of treasure is so strong, that no one wants to be "left out". Thus we brush aside inconsistencies, and brush aside more-plausible explanations. So too is it with the Pearl ship. Once the campfire legend is born, it's impossible to put to rest. No matter HOW implausible the story is, someone else can come along and conjecture the "perfect storm" and "nefarious sinister motives", etc....
 

gollum

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Looks like somebody's not reading the links I posted! LOL

Hey Buddy,

The chart below shows the historical highs and lows of the ancient lake from 700 AD to the present. It is stated in the above quote by Marinacci that the great Norse expeditionary period was from 900 to 1100 AD. Notice on the chart, except for a short precipitous 50 year drop between 900-950 AD that the lake, during the Viking expeditionary period, was at it's highest levels, meaning the lake's reach was at the maximum in length and width, pushing deep into all of the canyons around its periphery.
longship06.jpg


Now, while you may think that forty feet isn't that deep. Try jumping off a four story building then check back in! HAHAHA One of my duty stations in the US Navy was the USS Carl Vinson (CVAN-70). This ship was almost 1100 feet long, weighed 93,000 TONS, and had a crew of approx 6000. I remember leaving Norfolk, and entering and leaving Guantanamo Bay Cuba. I remember our 37 FOOT DRAFT almost being an issue. So, if an 1100 foot long, 93000 ton ship can travel in 40 feet of depth, then I'll bet you dollars to donuts a 60 or 70 foot lapstrake constructed wooden longboat could make it as well. LOL

Hey Pegleg,

How ya been? Hope you and yours are all fat and happy!

Take Care - Mike
 

gollum

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........separate post regarding Viking Longboat:

An acquaintance of several years is named Margot Wholey. I have mentioned her before, but for those (TLDR Folks). Margot has been documenting Seri Indian History and Culture for the last twenty or so years. She braves the new influx of Cartel Activity every year to get Tribal Elders to tell the stories on video. The entire Seri Tribe has adopted her and protect her from harm.

The Seri/Comca'ac have many very interesting stories; one of which regards our old friend Father Eusebio Francisco Kino SJ. The given story is that Kino caught a bad fever. He made it back to his Mission at Dolores, where he lay down on his horse blanket and died in a couple of days. The Seri have a different version:

When Kino and his Jesuits tried to convert the Seri, they refused. So Kino allowed the Seri to have bounties placed on their scalps by the locals, since the Seri were "warlike". Since Kino authorized them to be murdered, they returned the favor and poisoned him, whereupon he died at Dolores.

Another Seri History Lesson regards a large boat full of Red Haired Tall White People that landed on Tiburon Island in ancient times. Since Tiburon is the sacred birthplace of the Seri, they made war on the newcomers. This lasted almost a year, after which they made peace and traded goods with the Red Heads until one day they packed up and headed North never to be seen again. Interesting, huh?

Several years ago, Margot started "The Comcaac Project" to document the tribe's history and culture. At one time, there were fewer than 80 full blooded Seris because they were hunted by the Spanish/Mexicans. Now, there are about 500. Here is a link:

The Comcaac Project

The books are expensive, but she has been doing all this out of her own pocket for many years now. Any support you can give to the project I am certain would be greatly appreciated (and NO, I am not a member of the project, nor do I profit in any way (other than Karma LOL) from sales or donations to the Project.

I just noticed that Margot released a book last year called "Geoglyphs of Tiburon Island". I just messaged her to see if something was included in the books which she shared with me that I have kept secret for many years. When I hear back, I will know more that I can share.

Best - Mike
 

pegleglooker

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I've been reading old books about the Spanish exploration of the west coast. There was a lot of activity in the gulf of California. Lots of unpredictable tidal bores and storms. There were many failed attempts to explore the Colorado, and several lost ships. The problem seems to be that many captains kept their findings secret, so as not to attract other explorers who may claim the land for themselves. There's actually a lot of credibility to this old legend. That's why I can't seem to put it to rest. Keep up the good work, Pegleg!
The other thing with Spanish records, is that they weren't the most honest or trusting people.. They lied on their records to the king, that's why ships like the Atocha sank, they were too overloaded. And sometimes they lied to the person they reported to, like Cortez etc...

But the big issue with the Colorado is all the shifting sand in the river. There are places in the river where you can jump out of your boat and the water is only waist deep... So the larger ships like the galleons could not make it up river... Even the steamships of the 1800's talk about coming down river in 2-3 days, but upriver took 2-3 weeks...

To my knowledge there is not a waterway deep enough for a galleon to get to the Salton Sea, even with a tidal bore....That bore would have to travel roughly 100 miles to get them to where Lake Cahuilla was... It's about 74 miles as the crow flies from Isla Montague to the border... Personally, I think Cavendish's lost Content in Laguna Salada is the most viable yarn.....

Enjoy
 
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pegleglooker

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........separate post regarding Viking Longboat:

An acquaintance of several years is named Margot Wholey. I have mentioned her before, but for those (TLDR Folks). Margot has been documenting Seri Indian History and Culture for the last twenty or so years. She braves the new influx of Cartel Activity every year to get Tribal Elders to tell the stories on video. The entire Seri Tribe has adopted her and protect her from harm.

The Seri/Comca'ac have many very interesting stories; one of which regards our old friend Father Eusebio Francisco Kino SJ. The given story is that Kino caught a bad fever. He made it back to his Mission at Dolores, where he lay down on his horse blanket and died in a couple of days. The Seri have a different version:

When Kino and his Jesuits tried to convert the Seri, they refused. So Kino allowed the Seri to have bounties placed on their scalps by the locals, since the Seri were "warlike". Since Kino authorized them to be murdered, they returned the favor and poisoned him, whereupon he died at Dolores.

Another Seri History Lesson regards a large boat full of Red Haired Tall White People that landed on Tiburon Island in ancient times. Since Tiburon is the sacred birthplace of the Seri, they made war on the newcomers. This lasted almost a year, after which they made peace and traded goods with the Red Heads until one day they packed up and headed North never to be seen again. Interesting, huh?

Several years ago, Margot started "The Comcaac Project" to document the tribe's history and culture. At one time, there were fewer than 80 full blooded Seris because they were hunted by the Spanish/Mexicans. Now, there are about 500. Here is a link:

The Comcaac Project

The books are expensive, but she has been doing all this out of her own pocket for many years now. Any support you can give to the project I am certain would be greatly appreciated (and NO, I am not a member of the project, nor do I profit in any way (other than Karma LOL) from sales or donations to the Project.

I just noticed that Margot released a book last year called "Geoglyphs of Tiburon Island". I just messaged her to see if something was included in the books which she shared with me that I have kept secret for many years. When I hear back, I will know more that I can share.

Best - Mike
I have her book and have spoke to her a couple times, she's good people that's for sure...
........separate post regarding Viking Longboat:

An acquaintance of several years is named Margot Wholey. I have mentioned her before, but for those (TLDR Folks). Margot has been documenting Seri Indian History and Culture for the last twenty or so years. She braves the new influx of Cartel Activity every year to get Tribal Elders to tell the stories on video. The entire Seri Tribe has adopted her and protect her from harm.

The Seri/Comca'ac have many very interesting stories; one of which regards our old friend Father Eusebio Francisco Kino SJ. The given story is that Kino caught a bad fever. He made it back to his Mission at Dolores, where he lay down on his horse blanket and died in a couple of days. The Seri have a different version:

When Kino and his Jesuits tried to convert the Seri, they refused. So Kino allowed the Seri to have bounties placed on their scalps by the locals, since the Seri were "warlike". Since Kino authorized them to be murdered, they returned the favor and poisoned him, whereupon he died at Dolores.

Another Seri History Lesson regards a large boat full of Red Haired Tall White People that landed on Tiburon Island in ancient times. Since Tiburon is the sacred birthplace of the Seri, they made war on the newcomers. This lasted almost a year, after which they made peace and traded goods with the Red Heads until one day they packed up and headed North never to be seen again. Interesting, huh?

Several years ago, Margot started "The Comcaac Project" to document the tribe's history and culture. At one time, there were fewer than 80 full blooded Seris because they were hunted by the Spanish/Mexicans. Now, there are about 500. Here is a link:

The Comcaac Project

The books are expensive, but she has been doing all this out of her own pocket for many years now. Any support you can give to the project I am certain would be greatly appreciated (and NO, I am not a member of the project, nor do I profit in any way (other than Karma LOL) from sales or donations to the Project.

I just noticed that Margot released a book last year called "Geoglyphs of Tiburon Island". I just messaged her to see if something was included in the books which she shared with me that I have kept secret for many years. When I hear back, I will know more that I can share.

Best - Mike
Been good Mike!!! Hope you and yours are doing great as well... We need to talk about a couple of things when you have time. Shoot me a PM with a contact number and I'll give ya a call....

Meanwhile I think the Norse ship was a Knarr and not a Longship.. The Knarr's meet the Carver description, which was 60 feet long and 15-20 feet wide, and it would take a smaller crew... Carver also did not mention a "dragon's head" like a typical Longship and the Knarr's generally do not have these. Plus all it would need is 20 inch's of water to sail...

Stay in touch amigo!!!!
 

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gollum

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HAHAHA Margot wondered why you didn't let her know how you liked the book. She doesn't sell to many people (not a money thing). Since most of the monuments are sacred to the Seri, or play important roles in their history, she doesn't like to advertise locations.

Also, many people have blended two stories into one regarding the Seri. Everyone has heard of the Red Haired Giants on Tiburon Island. This is a mash of their stories of Giants (6'3" up to about 7'5", so not REALLY giants), and a boatload of tall red headed people that landed on Tiburon Island. They stayed for a while, took a couple of Seri Women, and headed North never to be seen again.

Mike
 

pegleglooker

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Margot is good people, I'm just extremely busy right now and I meant to email her back... The satchel that came with the book is hanging off my rearview mirror in my Jeep... And the book is really awesome!!! The photos are incredible!!!!!

Btw, I have a lead I am tracking down right now, supposedly a group of guys found a ship near the Sea.... Not sure if it will pan out but I'll let you know asap!!!

Don't forget to send me a note with your phone number, I have some things that you might be interested in...

PLL
 

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