The Sombrero Mine

[ancientones]

Hello again LDM hunters and Thank You for the interest in my material. This is a continuation of my thread 'Is the Lost Dutchman Mine the Sombrero Mine?'.

'Above the junction of a West flowing canyon/wash(Tortilla) and a North flowing canyon/wash(Peters) you will find clues to the mine'.
This is a pic of a rock pinnacle just East of this Junction of Tortilla Wash and Peters Canyon. This has been 'chipped' on top to form the shape of a Heart and would
be seen from a good distance as you enter the mining 'site' from the East. This was to advise the Mexican miners they had arrived at their destination.
The Peralta Stone maps show a trail coming in from the West. This is a pic of this junction, the 'chipped' Heart is to the right
The red dashes are this trail coming in from the West, into Peters, across this hilltop, and then into Tortilla Wash heading South.

This is a pic of the 'stone' trail marker.

This is a 'current' 2023 google close up of this hilltop.

Next is a google pic of the same hilltop, this is dated 2007.
For any 'Spanish/Mexican' treasure hunter I cannot emphasize enough the benefits Google Earth can provide. They made 'maps' out of the terrain,
and they were very good at this. Depending on the 'terrain' I would think these could be found at many of their sites around Az, Mexico, etc.-'depending on the terrain'..
The Mexican miners would have 'scouts' that would go to the 'mountain tops'. With 'eye glasses' they would scan the hill sides and hill tops for these 'symbols/signs' to show them the way. The 'sign/symbol' site would be cleared of rock, brush and at their time would have been clear to see. Over time these will disappear, however, if you 'change' your Google 'time' zones you can find them. I find 2007 is best for me. I believe the mountain to the 'South' of this junction is 'Geronimo Head, looking at the sky'. You can see this from the 'West', such as on the road to Payson. The 'knob' on the top South end of this mountain top is the 'Sombrero' hill identified in the maps to name this mine, which is across the 'gulch'(Peters) to the East. From this mountain top looking North they would see the below.
X This is the 'trail' symbol and would be placed along the trail. See this symbol and a 'trail' is there.
- ) Separated Arrow This advised to 'continue this way but pay attention to the next symbol'.
Circle with a Dot in the center This is the mine symbol. The 'line' is providing the direction.
These are almost 200 years old yet can still be seen and advise where the trail is and the direction to go to the mine.

This is a google from the top of the 'chipped' Heart rock, looking South at the South side of Tortilla Wash. The Peralta Stone Map trail entering Tortilla is below on the right. There is a triangle shaped area 'cleared of brush' , the arrow is pointing to this. There is a 'X' trail symbol in this cleared area(next pic). This is not the trail to the Sombrero mine, this trail is in the bottom of the wash and exits past this spot.

This is a sketch map dated 1846, my apologies this is upside down, it will match up better for the following pic.
I have marked Tortilla Wash, Peters Canyon and the Sombrero-which is not listed on this map.

This is a google pic of this sketch map location. Other than the Sombrero mine these tack marks are just an estimate location based on the trails/signs, but I have no doubt they are there. There is a Heart inlay stone dated 1847 reflecting 10 mines 'within the Heart'. They left in 1847 and as far as I know only came back to the Sombrero due to so rich. There is a 3? mile broken ridge that runs in a 'line', the Sombrero mine is on the right(inside the red square). There is a 'black' vein in this broken ridgeline, pics of what this same rock looks like up close I have posted previously. If you zoom down, you can see a red dirt vein(Iron) on top running parallel with this broken ridge. The Mexican miners had 'current' maps and were updating them, dug out mines would not be on these current maps, and they are about to get booted out.

When the Mexican miners come into this site from the South, they entered from the 'East' end dropping down off
the broken ridge down close to Tortilla Wash and would 'head West'. This trail is between the 2 'left' yellow tacks. 'East' of the Sombrero mine, across the Mountain and below the 2 mine tacks, this is a pic of the 'West' slope of this mountain, Tortilla Wash is on the bottom right.

This is a 2007 pic of this same slope. I have been advised my 'signs/symbols' I see are just 'shadows' so my apologies if unable to 'see'. It appears to me that there is a large section covering several of these 'hills' that had been cleared and symbols placed. The bottom arrow is for a symbol that was 'added' to show the way to the newly found Sombrero. I see the 'X' trail symbol, a 'half circle', and a line. I believe the half circle is the same as the half circle on the Peralta Heart stone for the Sombrero and is implying 'to go around the mountain'-trail the direction of the line. The top arrow is pointing to a 'Heart' shape. Alot of effort was put into this site.

I believe there was a camp in here, and if I go the direction of the 'line' on the hillside symbol, this trail goes up and over the North side of this Mtn. This is a pic from the North looking at the Peters canyon side, and the yellow dashes show this trail. It goes to this mine, and possibly others. It also continues South down Peters Canyon. I believe the miners hauled the ore to the camp to be processed to haul home.

*Be sure to use different 'time zones' on google to look at these.
The terrain in here is restricted so the miners had few places to make/go with a mule. If you can see a trail it had traffic and is important, such as above. Just past the Ledge with the Sombrero mine is a gulch, and a trail going up, coming from the North. The main trail South is in the canyon floor. I can see a trail going up this slope, and one going into the gulch. I do not know if these are prospects or mines, but when I can see a trail going into a dead-end gulch, or into a cliff face or up onto a dead-end ledge, there is a reason.

 

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[skyhawk1251]

ancientones --

I've PM'ed you with other objects of possible interest very near to your "mystery mine." I'm assuming that you've used PM before.

 

[ancientones]

Hello again LDM hunters and Thank You for the interest in my material. This is a continuation of my thread 'Is the Lost Dutchman Mine the Sombrero Mine?'.
View attachment 2065607
'Above the junction of a West flowing canyon/wash(Tortilla) and a North flowing canyon/wash(Peters) you will find clues to the mine'.
This is a pic of a rock pinnacle just East of this Junction of Tortilla Wash and Peters Canyon. This has been 'chipped' on top to form the shape of a Heart and would
be seen from a good distance as you enter the mining 'site' from the East. This was to advise the Mexican miners they had arrived at their destination.
The Peralta Stone maps show a trail coming in from the West. This is a pic of this junction, the 'chipped' Heart is to the right
The red dashes are this trail coming in from the West, into Peters, across this hilltop, and then into Tortilla Wash heading South.
View attachment 2065643
This is a pic of the 'stone' trail marker.
View attachment 2065644
This is a 'current' 2023 google close up of this hilltop.
View attachment 2065697
Next is a google pic of the same hilltop, this is dated 2007.
For any 'Spanish/Mexican' treasure hunter I cannot emphasize enough the benefits Google Earth can provide. They made 'maps' out of the terrain,
and they were very good at this. Depending on the 'terrain' I would think these could be found at many of their sites around Az, Mexico, etc.-'depending on the terrain'..
The Mexican miners would have 'scouts' that would go to the 'mountain tops'. With 'eye glasses' they would scan the hill sides and hill tops for these 'symbols/signs' to show them the way. The 'sign/symbol' site would be cleared of rock, brush and at their time would have been clear to see. Over time these will disappear, however, if you 'change' your Google 'time' zones you can find them. I find 2007 is best for me. I believe the mountain to the 'South' of this junction is 'Geronimo Head, looking at the sky'. You can see this from the 'West', such as on the road to Payson. The 'knob' on the top South end of this mountain top is the 'Sombrero' hill identified in the maps to name this mine, which is across the 'gulch'(Peters) to the East. From this mountain top looking North they would see the below.
X This is the 'trail' symbol and would be placed along the trail. See this symbol and a 'trail' is there.
- ) Separated Arrow This advised to 'continue this way but pay attention to the next symbol'.
Circle with a Dot in the center This is the mine symbol. The 'line' is providing the direction.
These are almost 200 years old yet can still be seen and advise where the trail is and the direction to go to the mine.
View attachment 2065647
This is a google from the top of the 'chipped' Heart rock, looking South at the South side of Tortilla Wash. The Peralta Stone Map trail entering Tortilla is below on the right. There is a triangle shaped area 'cleared of brush' , the arrow is pointing to this. There is a 'X' trail symbol in this cleared area(next pic). This is not the trail to the Sombrero mine, this trail is in the bottom of the wash and exits past this spot.
View attachment 2065861
View attachment 2065880
This is a sketch map dated 1846, my apologies this is upside down, it will match up better for the following pic.
I have marked Tortilla Wash, Peters Canyon and the Sombrero-which is not listed on this map.
View attachment 2065984
This is a google pic of this sketch map location. Other than the Sombrero mine these tack marks are just an estimate location based on the trails/signs, but I have no doubt they are there. There is a Heart inlay stone dated 1847 reflecting 10 mines 'within the Heart'. They left in 1847 and as far as I know only came back to the Sombrero due to so rich. There is a 3? mile broken ridge that runs in a 'line', the Sombrero mine is on the right(inside the red square). There is a 'black' vein in this broken ridgeline, pics of what this same rock looks like up close I have posted previously. If you zoom down, you can see a red dirt vein(Iron) on top running parallel with this broken ridge. The Mexican miners had 'current' maps and were updating them, dug out mines would not be on these current maps, and they are about to get booted out.
View attachment 2065985

When the Mexican miners come into this site from the South, they entered from the 'East' end dropping down off
the broken ridge down close to Tortilla Wash and would 'head West'. This trail is between the 2 'left' yellow tacks. 'East' of the Sombrero mine, across the Mountain and below the 2 mine tacks, this is a pic of the 'West' slope of this mountain, Tortilla Wash is on the bottom right.
View attachment 2066051
This is a 2007 pic of this same slope. I have been advised my 'signs/symbols' I see are just 'shadows' so my apologies if unable to 'see'. It appears to me that there is a large section covering several of these 'hills' that had been cleared and symbols placed. The bottom arrow is for a symbol that was 'added' to show the way to the newly found Sombrero. I see the 'X' trail symbol, a 'half circle', and a line. I believe the half circle is the same as the half circle on the Peralta Heart stone for the Sombrero and is implying 'to go around the mountain'-trail the direction of the line. The top arrow is pointing to a 'Heart' shape. Alot of effort was put into this site.
View attachment 2066059

For clues concerning the LDM, I would look at the clue description from any of the sources that visited the site.
Other than the Mexican miners material(detailed maps on paper, stone and signs on hillsides), the clues for this mine are 'verbal'. Told over the years by those that knew of the mine, MANY of these clues were true and spot on. There are clues such as 'Dog Ears' I did not look for, I am not sure of the 'source' and 'location'. Geronimo Head is one of these clues. This pic shows the site, mine on the right, Geronimo Head on the left, and the Sombrero Butte/Hill above the mine. The butte/hill is on the North end of Malapais Mtn. The clue advises 'as seen from the "West", which 'could' place the butte/hill as 'part' of the South end of Geronimo Head. If the clue advised of a gulch 'East' and across the gulch from the mine, the verbal clue would fit-the 'teller' included this part of the Malapais Mtn. Other than the gulch location, the Dutchman advised you could see Weavers Needle 'due' South of the mine. Draw a line from Weavers Needle 'due' North. This clue would not fit the 'description' I've seen, but not to say when 'retold' over the years parts may have changed.

2007 google of the Sombrero butte/hill. This was a high mtn. top and could be seen for miles and a perfect place to put 'signs'.

'Thank You' to a viewer who saw a circle of rocks and a rock in the center. This is a mine symbol and the trail running by this symbol will lead to a mine. 'When a mine was cleaned out, they removed the mine signs on the hillsides, and updated their maps. If the mine was too deep(lack of oxygen) or other obstacle, but still had value, the mine was kept.
If you are on Sombrero butte/hill, the North end of the Malapais Mtn. looking East, down below across Peters canyon
is the Sombrero mine. Just upstream(South), on the same side of the canyon(East) as the mine. there is this hill.
This pic is a google 2017 date.

This is a 2007 google of the same hill . I can see 'several' trails going into a crevice with the same type of rock as at the Sombrero mine-this is not a 'thru' trail. I also see a 'strange, circle shape' in the brush where 1 set of trails come up out of the canyon.

If you go thru the different time zones on google, this is what I see in the 2015 year. As the hill shape is ideal for a 'Heart', I see Heart shapes(treasure). That 'brushy' area is brush forming a circle with a dot in the center(mine). Their are 4 'dots' over it, and 1 'dot' on the right side. This is advising 5 mines to go to from this 'Heart', it is a billboard with lots of info. Time has 'changed' the brush and not knowing all the symbols and their meanings.
Above this mine symbol 'appears' to be other symbols, including an 'arrow' pointing up towards this crevice. Above this arrow is another mine symbol, this one has 'lines' pointing out. Follow the line(trail) directions.

I rarely see 'tailings', the miners would try and conceal this.
There are 'white arrows' I placed at the top and bottom, this is on 2011 date. For the 'top 2 arrows',, the top one appears to be a 'monument' and the 'round' stone 'just stands out'. This round rock is on the top of what appears to be a 'Heart shape', formed by the canyon, then 'manicured' by them to 'show' this shape .
For the 3 lower arrows, zoom in to look at these. There are 'white' rocks placed on the edges of these 'black' rocks so the miners looking up into the crevice will see these markers.

I want to Thank Everyone for viewing my material. The Sombrero Mine was a rich gold mine a few Mexican miners took the risk to come back to mine. The evidence tells me this was a Mexican mining site, rich with mines, and they were finding more. After they left(1847), these mines are as they left them, other than the rich Sombrero. It is hard for me to believe Jacob Waltz found a 'different' rich mine, especially if in a 'geological' area not known for this, and the thousands that have searched for it and not produced evidence of a rich gold vein like he described and produced. The Mexican miners had a large-scale mining operation that had to fold. The treasures they came here to mine are still here. Now 'Wilderness', the 'challenge' is to 'verify' this evidence, and if the mines are of 'value',
and if so, can anything be done? The red streaks(Iron) on top of this 3 mile ridge/mountain leads me to believe this whole mtn. has value, we only see what is on the broken exposed edges.
I hope I have provided insight and help for those interested in the Lost Dutchman Mine, there is so much more than just this one mine.
Again, Thank You for viewing my material and reading my story.
ancientones

 

[ancientones]

For clues concerning the LDM, I would look at the clue description from any of the sources that visited the site.
Other than the Mexican miners material(detailed maps on paper, stone and signs on hillsides), the clues for this mine are 'verbal'. Told over the years by those that knew of the mine, MANY of these clues were true and spot on. There are clues such as 'Dog Ears' I did not look for, I am not sure of the 'source' and 'location'. Geronimo Head is one of these clues. This pic shows the site, mine on the right, Geronimo Head on the left, and the Sombrero Butte/Hill above the mine. The butte/hill is on the North end of Malapais Mtn. The clue advises 'as seen from the "West", which 'could' place the butte/hill as 'part' of the South end of Geronimo Head. If the clue advised of a gulch 'East' and across the gulch from the mine, the verbal clue would fit-the 'teller' included this part of the Malapais Mtn. Other than the gulch location, the Dutchman advised you could see Weavers Needle 'due' South of the mine. Draw a line from Weavers Needle 'due' North. This clue would not fit the 'description' I've seen, but not to say when 'retold' over the years parts may have changed.
View attachment 2066180
2007 google of the Sombrero butte/hill. This was a high mtn. top and could be seen for miles and a perfect place to put 'signs'.
View attachment 2066181
'Thank You' to a viewer who saw a circle of rocks and a rock in the center. This is a mine symbol and the trail running by this symbol will lead to a mine. 'When a mine was cleaned out, they removed the mine signs on the hillsides, and updated their maps. If the mine was too deep(lack of oxygen) or other obstacle, but still had value, the mine was kept.
If you are on Sombrero butte/hill, the North end of the Malapais Mtn. looking East, down below across Peters canyon
is the Sombrero mine. Just upstream(South), on the same side of the canyon(East) as the mine. there is this hill.
This pic is a google 2017 date.
View attachment 2066264
This is a 2007 google of the same hill . I can see 'several' trails going into a crevice with the same type of rock as at the Sombrero mine-this is not a 'thru' trail. I also see a 'strange, circle shape' in the brush where 1 set of trails come up out of the canyon.
View attachment 2066265
If you go thru the different time zones on google, this is what I see in the 2015 year. As the hill shape is ideal for a 'Heart', I see Heart shapes(treasure). That 'brushy' area is brush forming a circle with a dot in the center(mine). Their are 4 'dots' over it, and 1 'dot' on the right side. This is advising 5 mines to go to from this 'Heart', it is a billboard with lots of info. Time has 'changed' the brush and not knowing all the symbols and their meanings.
Above this mine symbol 'appears' to be other symbols, including an 'arrow' pointing up towards this crevice. Above this arrow is another mine symbol, this one has 'lines' pointing out. Follow the line(trail) directions.
View attachment 2066271
I rarely see 'tailings', the miners would try and conceal this.
There are 'white arrows' I placed at the top and bottom, this is on 2011 date. For the 'top 2 arrows',, the top one appears to be a 'monument' and the 'round' stone 'just stands out'. This round rock is on the top of what appears to be a 'Heart shape', formed by the canyon, then 'manicured' by them to 'show' this shape .
For the 3 lower arrows, zoom in to look at these. There are 'white' rocks placed on the edges of these 'black' rocks so the miners looking up into the crevice will see these markers.
View attachment 2066274

I want to Thank Everyone for viewing my material. The Sombrero Mine was a rich gold mine a few Mexican miners took the risk to come back to mine. The evidence tells me this was a Mexican mining site, rich with mines, and they were finding more. After they left(1847), these mines are as they left them, other than the rich Sombrero. It is hard for me to believe Jacob Waltz found a 'different' rich mine, especially if in a 'geological' area not known for this, and the thousands that have searched for it and not produced evidence of a rich gold vein like he described and produced. The Mexican miners had a large-scale mining operation that had to fold. The treasures they came here to mine are still here. Now 'Wilderness', the 'challenge' is to 'verify' this evidence, and if the mines are of 'value',
and if so, can anything be done? The red streaks(Iron) on top of this 3 mile ridge/mountain leads me to believe this whole mtn. has value, we only see what is on the broken exposed edges.
I hope I have provided insight and help for those interested in the Lost Dutchman Mine, there is so much more than just this one mine.
Again, Thank You for viewing my material and reading my story.
ancientones

To show the 5 mile circle distance for this site and a few degrees for Magnetic North-he used a compass.

 

[markmar]

IMHO, the Sombrero mine was not named after a different landmark than the Sombrero peak aka Weaver's Needle. It was the closest mine found by the Peraltas in regards to that landmark. Also was not a tunnel but a funnel shaped pit and terraced like stairs at its mouth.
Just for the history and your info, in this aerial image you can see the mine in the yellow circle.

 

[Ramiro valdez]

Markmar, the only thing that resembles the funnel entrance to the dark hidden canyon which very well hides the goldmine is your yellow circle? If you would have, and I mean everybody, used the compass initially with the coordinates on the stone map that Peralta found and gave to Jacob Waltz who then gave it to Julian! Then you would have found the surrounding area to the goldmine! And you would have not spend all this time takings photos of areas that do not house the goldmine? Trying to add the use of a compass to an area that is not the area because you never used it first is ludicrous!

 

[markmar]

Markmar, the only thing that resembles the funnel entrance to the dark hidden canyon which very well hides the goldmine is your yellow circle? If you would have, and I mean everybody, used the compass initially with the coordinates on the stone map that Peralta found and gave to Jacob Waltz who then gave it to Julian! Then you would have found the surrounding area to the goldmine! And you would have not spend all this time takings photos of areas that do not house the goldmine? Trying to add the use of a compass to an area that is not the area because you never used it first is ludicrous!

I don't understand what are you talking about. My aerial image was for the Peralta's Sombrero mine which is depicted only on one map " Cuenta de oro del Rio Salado del norte ". The LDM and the stone maps, have nothing to do with this mine.

 

[ancientones]

I don't understand what are you talking about. My aerial image was for the Peralta's Sombrero mine which is depicted only on one map " Cuenta de oro del Rio Salado del norte ". The LDM and the stone maps, have nothing to do with this mine.

The Mexican Miners named several mountain tops Sombrero, as a reference. This mine has a 'Sombrero' across Peters Canyon West, on the top North end of Malapais Mesa, as reflected in their sketch map. The updated Peralta Heart inlay stone reflects this mine, on the East side of a zigzag canyon-Peters. The 'Top' Peralta stone map reflects
the junction of Tortilla and Peters and the 'curve' to show a trail coming in from the West. A Mexican clue for 'this' mine advises: "There is a West flowing wash(Tortilla) and a North flowing canyon(Peters). Above the junction is the way to the mine". Tom Kollenborn? followed and mapped this trail but had it entering into Tortilla wash from the
North and it enters Tortilla on the East heading South up Tortilla. There is a 'trail' marker on this hilltop, the brush 'cleared' so their trail/mine symbols could be seen from the hilltops. My pics at the mine site are for the viewer to decide 'if they fit' what the clue teller was trying to describe.

 

[markmar]

The Mexican Miners named several mountain tops Sombrero, as a reference. This mine has a 'Sombrero' across Peters Canyon West, on the top North end of Malapais Mesa, as reflected in their sketch map. The updated Peralta Heart inlay stone reflects this mine, on the East side of a zigzag canyon-Peters. The 'Top' Peralta stone map reflects
the junction of Tortilla and Peters and the 'curve' to show a trail coming in from the West. A Mexican clue for 'this' mine advises: "There is a West flowing wash(Tortilla) and a North flowing canyon(Peters). Above the junction is the way to the mine". Tom Kollenborn? followed and mapped this trail but had it entering into Tortilla wash from the
North and it enters Tortilla on the East heading South up Tortilla. There is a 'trail' marker on this hilltop, the brush 'cleared' so their trail/mine symbols could be seen from the hilltops. My pics at the mine site are for the viewer to decide 'if they fit' what the clue teller was trying to describe.

IMHO, the Mexican miners were using for their maps as Sombrero, only Weavers Needle.
Also, I don't understand why all who claimed to have found a mine in the Superstitions, instead to take a sample of its ore, just give away the spot in regards to do the job somebody else. You were there, so?
IMO, you found nothing. Prove me wrong.

PS
The truth is, if someone of all who claimed to have found a mine in the Superstitions, would find a mine or a gold vein, would go silent. How I know? Logic human habit on Earth.

 

[ancientones]

IMHO, the Mexican miners were using for their maps as Sombrero, only Weavers Needle.
Also, I don't understand why all who claimed to have found a mine in the Superstitions, instead to take a sample of its ore, just give away the spot in regards to do the job somebody else. You were there, so?
IMO, you found nothing. Prove me wrong.

PS
The truth is, if someone of all who claimed to have found a mine in the Superstitions, would find a mine or a gold vein, would go silent. How I know? Logic human habit on Earth.

If you look at the 1846 Mexican sketch map, this reflects 6 mines with 1 showing a Sombrero and
a mine on the 'West' side of the wash. This is a common symbol. I call this the Sombrero Mine based om the sketch map that led me here. I am sure the Mexican miners had a name for this mine-I have no interest in the name.
As for the mine, I could have taken samples out. These could have been tested and confirmed, and the net
result would be the same as 100 pics of all the clues. What good is gold brought out to provide proof for the location it was taken from and was it in accordance with the FS regulations? Human nature is many are interested in the gold and will do anything to obtain it, regardless of the Laws.

 

[GreenBranch]

If you look at the 1846 Mexican sketch map, this reflects 6 mines with 1 showing a Sombrero and
a mine on the 'West' side of the wash. This is a common symbol. I call this the Sombrero Mine based om the sketch map that led me here. I am sure the Mexican miners had a name for this mine-I have no interest in the name.
As for the mine, I could have taken samples out. These could have been tested and confirmed, and the net
result would be the same as 100 pics of all the clues. What good is gold brought out to provide proof for the location it was taken from and was it in accordance with the FS regulations? Human nature is many are interested in the gold and will do anything to obtain it, regardless of the Laws.

Ancientones, talk about a cliffhanger!

I'm brand-spanking new here so I apologize in advance if I'm asking a stupid question, but WHAT IS THE NEXT STEP?? Is someone supposed to hike to the mine and look for more evidence? Is that what you're planning now that warmer drier weather is coming? My goodness, I've been hiking my whole life (though only once in the sups) and would jump at the chance to visit this mine. Just say the word and I'm there.

And regarding this quote from Markmar: The truth is, if someone of all who claimed to have found a mine in the Superstitions, would find a mine or a gold vein, would go silent. How I know? Logic human habit on Earth.

I have to say not everyone thinks as you do. Maybe that is your habit but not all humans are like you and especially not me. I have NO desire to get rich by finding gold. The thrill is in the chase, not in the kill.

 

[markmar]

GreenBranch

The truth is, the chase gives the satisfaction for the kill. The chase without reason it's like a walk without destination.
Now, how someone will handle the kill, is a personal decision.

 

[GreenBranch]

GreenBranch

The truth is, the chase gives the satisfaction for the kill. The chase without reason it's like a walk without destination.
Now, how someone will handle the kill, is a personal decision.

True. I used to go deer hunting with a camera. That way I had the thrill of the chase, I got the "kill" and the deer lived. Win Win Win.

 

[skyhawk1251]

GreenBranch --

PM me for details of a mine you might want to visit. It could be a good practice run in your search for the LDM, or it could be more than that . . .

 

[ancientones]

True. I used to go deer hunting with a camera. That way I had the thrill of the chase, I got the "kill" and the deer lived. Win Win Win.

GreenBranch,
Welcome and Thanks for your post. I cannot attest to others for this mine, only my thoughts.
You are correct on the 'hunt'. In looking for this mine, my eyes have been opened to the Spanish/Mexican signs/symbols I see on Google Earth. These were their road signs. Not only 1 mine in here and finding them is the thrill.
This is Wilderness and mining prohibited. To know what you 'can' do you would need to read 'and' understand the Wilderness Act concerning Prospecting. I have been advised 20 to 40 lbs. of tailings, and IF it contains enough gold to be compared to known samples. I have been advised to pick ore out, but have also been advised this would violate the Act. This 'would' be verified by others one day so they would know what was done. Regardless, so you obtain ore.
What is the Plan? If you ask any of those advising you to bring ore out to be tested, and it test positive Dutchman ore,
ask 'what is the next step, the plan'? If they cannot answer, they are after the gold. To provide this ore will put me in a dangerous position, I would need to know 'what next' before I provide it-again, just me. Ideally, there should be a plan to involve those that have an interest in the mine, Lost Dutchman Museum?, Lost Dutchman Group? They would have the contacts with the Forest Service and what to do. NO plan I have found, no group, and no interest when I speak to the Museum. Is this a Famous Legendary Gold Mine with a history or just another gold mine?
If you think of going out, this is Wilderness and cannot advise enough to become familiar with all the dangers.
Do you need the directions or saw on my threads?

 

[GreenBranch]

If you think of going out, this is Wilderness and cannot advise enough to become familiar with all the dangers.
Do you need the directions or saw on my threads?

Thanks for the good advice Ancientones. Let me take a closer look at your posts and see if I can figure out how to get there. Adventure awaits!

 

[sailaway]

​

Greeting and Salutations,​

Marius (ie) markmar lives in eastern Europe and Never plans to visit the Superstitions Wilderness from his own confessions, so beware of his demands on samples. Number one there are laws both state and federal that could be violated by taking of sample materials. That said be sure you keep within the laws, I myself have had my pack inspected while hiking in the Sups. You are not allowed to have but a very small scoop, size is in the regulations and smaller than the common ones sold at most mining retailers. Then on top of that state laws prevent you from breaking of any rocks to get samples. You are allowed to only carry out one pant pocket of loose sample, then on top of that you are not allowed to do ANY mining activities. The area your examining was searched by Bark himself and also where Ruth lost his life. Bark had a gold mine there till it played out and was abandoned.​

My advice is take a camera , lots of water, enjoy a hike and have fun, do not worry about any negative commits.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

​

Greeting and Salutations,​

Marius (ie) markmar lives in eastern Europe and Never plans to visit the Superstitions Wilderness from his own confessions, so beware of his demands on samples. Number one there are laws both state and federal that could be violated by taking of sample materials. That said be sure you keep within the laws, I myself have had my pack inspected while hiking in the Sups. You are not allowed to have but a very small scoop, size is in the regulations and smaller than the common ones sold at most mining retailers. Then on top of that state laws prevent you from breaking of any rocks to get samples. You are allowed to only carry out one pant pocket of loose sample, then on top of that you are not allowed to do ANY mining activities. The area your examining was searched by Bark himself and also where Ruth lost his life. Bark had a gold mine there till it played out and was abandoned.​

My advice is take a camera , lots of water, enjoy a hike and have fun, do not worry about any negative commits.

Great advice sailway.
Everyone should know and obey the laws when on their search in the Superstitions.
Everyone must decide for themselves how far they might go when on their private search.

The LDM, Peralta and other sites are not just sitting out there in the open. A certain amount of investigation is required when standing on what you believe to be important ground.

I dont know where the LDM is so every mans guess is as good as mine.

Markmar may live far off but he has legs in the Superstitions and knows more than he let's on here. If he wanted samples he would get them. Like many of us, holding some information close to the vest is always the best trail to ride.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I'll make this easier for everyone.

Number one there are laws both state and federal that could be violated by taking of sample materials.​

There are no State or Federal laws to prevent the taking of sample materials. In fact the Wilderness Act itself specifically allows prospecting for valuable minerals. Section d (2) of Wilderness Uses:

(2) Nothing in this Act shall prevent within national forest wilderness areas any activity, including
prospecting, for the purpose of gathering information about mineral or other resources, if such activity is carried
on in a manner compatible with the preservation of the wilderness environment.

You are not allowed to have but a very small scoop, size is in the regulations and smaller than the common ones sold at most mining retailers.​

There are no (zero) laws or regulations limiting scoop sizes in or out of the wilderness.

Then on top of that state laws prevent you from breaking of any rocks to get samples. You are allowed to only carry out one pant pocket of loose sample, then on top of that you are not allowed to do ANY mining activities.​

There are no (zero) Arizona State laws prohibiting breaking rocks. There is no limit of taking samples of "one pants pocket" or any other measurement.

You are correct you can not mine in designated wilderness. Prospecting and taking mineral samples is not mining.

My advice is take a camera , lots of water, enjoy a hike and have fun, do not worry about any negative commits.

Good advice. I would add don't take your hike in the heat of summer.

 

[ancientones]

I am not a prospector so being at the site I am at a disadvantage. I can see the tailings pile for a mine and pick ax
on the rose quartz. If you saw my picture of what I believe is the mine entrance, 'I am hesitant to move the dirt to be able to enter the mine'-not sure on this law. My goal would be pictures of the back of the mine. It seems there were 2 mines so a sample would need to come from the correct mine for the sample on file.
For previous miners out here other than Mexican, I cannot attest. Per the 1846 map, 6 mines South of Tortilla, they
then moved to Peters. The 'heart inlay' stone reflects 10 mines in 1847, inside the heart. The Dutchman advised of 8 mines on the mountainside. The symbols I see are the Mexican miners time, 175 years ago. They were finding mines, marking them and mining them, and they had to drop everything, walk away, and try and beat the Apache massacre.
View attachment 2073602 This is a pic of one of these hearts(treasure symbol). Inside the heart will be a mine symbol(circle with dot in center).. This mine symbol shows '15 minutes to 5', again, if you can see it. The 'hands' are pointing to mines. On google, in some cases, you can see the actual 'trail' going to the rock outcrop. The mines are within a couple hundred feet or so from the mine symbol.
When Jacob said 'there is enough gold here to make 20 men millionaires', he was not talking about 1 mine. If other white men have been in here mining, I have not seen it.
View attachment 2073603

This is where LaBarge turns and heads NW. I will show my estimation on his sketch map and his directions but
I have not verified this in the field. This is based off of GE and what I see.
There is a trail going straight N from LaBarge, and goes up a ridge. There is another trail to the left of this trail, a
rock pillar at this junction. There is a saddle on this long ridge, and at the end of the ridge 4 Peaks line up(N) and Weavers is South. Around the saddle area the trail goes down to enter the canyon to continue to the camp.
There are 'Mexican sign' on the hillside and a trail, this would match the sketch map if arrow is Peters. So mines on the 'West' side of Peters as well. I believe the straight and squiggly line and dot with arrow are pointing to the 'side' canyon East and its layout and mine-one of a few in this side canyon.
If his clue was 'It lies within a 5 mi circle of WN, Volcanic Peak, rock sticking up', his other clues will fit.
There is a 'large gold deposit' that runs 3 mi. along a ridge 'pushed up' exposing this on the Western
edges. The people finding and mining them(1846, 1847) had to leave, but they made sign/maps so future trips would know where to go-these were not 'tapped out'-they have value to come back to.
Is this the LDM? Which one?