✅ SOLVED Trying to Learn More About an Old Engraved Tusk

[MineEyes92]

Back in August, a friend of mine texted me these photos of a tusk he claims has been in his family for over 100 years. The story he gave me is that his grandfather, who served in the Navy during WW2, got it somewhere in Asia while on or observing military maneuvers. I did some research into my friend's grandfather, and it turns out this man did in fact graduate from the Naval Academy in 1921, which seems to fit the "100 years in the family" part of the story if we assume that's around the time he got the tusk. Other than this, we know nothing about this thing. My friend had hoped I could find out more information, particularly what the meaning of this little makers mark might be, but I've had little success. I have reached out to a couple of large museums, but so far I have not heard back with anything conclusive. I was hoping someone here could steer me in the right direction. Do you guys see this as being a genuine antique or some kind of knockoff intended for tourists? I should add that I asked my friend what he thought the tusk was made of, and he assured me it was ivory, but I don't know what his basis for knowing this is. I would also appreciate any suggestions for places to contact as well. I apologize if these photos aren't sufficient for making an assessment. I think the placemats on the table give some sense of scale, but I can't say for certain how big it is. Feel free to let me know if you'd like additional pics, and I'll gladly reach out to my friend and have him send me more. Thank you everybody.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[Back-of-the-boat]

I'm pretty sure the characters (letters) are Chinese and of course the monkeys are, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

 

[MineEyes92]

I'm pretty sure the characters (letters) are Chinese and of course the monkeys are, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

The monkeys and the symbolism they represent attracted my attention almost immediately too. Do you think those markings could indicate a manufacturer's identity?

 

[callmez]

I'm not very experienced with this sort of thing, exactly, but the carving is very fine, highly detailed. The theme certainly seems like something that would appeal to a young soldier with a few extra dollars to spend.
Could you get a photograph of the "cross grain" where the tusk was cut? That will help tell us what sort of ivory it might be. (It is likely some type of ivory, workers this skilled usually don't work in poor raw materials.)

 

[MineEyes92]

I'm not very experienced with this sort of thing, exactly, but the carving is very fine, highly detailed. The theme certainly seems like something that would appeal to a young soldier with a few extra dollars to spend.
Could you get a photograph of the "cross grain" where the tusk was cut? That will help tell us what sort of ivory it might be. (It is likely some type of ivory, workers this skilled usually don't work in poor raw materials.)

I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean get a close-up of the tusk so you can see the grain of the surface of the tusk in more detail?

 

[callmez]

I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean get a close-up of the tusk so you can see the grain of the surface of the tusk in more detail?

Of the end grain - like you were looking at the rings of a tree stump. Different varieties of ivory look different in cross section. A good clear closeup of the surface could help too, but the cross sectional view can tell you a LOT.

 

[MineEyes92]

Of the end grain - like you were looking at the rings of a tree stump. Different varieties of ivory look different in cross section. A good clear closeup of the surface could help too, but the cross sectional view can tell you a LOT.

Got it. I'll reach out to get a photo of the "tusk stump" as soon as I can. Thanks for the help.

 

[Yang Hao]

It appears to say 周富 zhou fu if I were to guess. However, the 周 is not in its usual 小篆 (small seal script). The 富 is definitely showing properly in its small seal script form. If it is "zhou fu" it's most likely the name of the artist. Zhou would be the family name.

 

[MineEyes92]

It appears to say 周富 zhou fu if I were to guess. However, the 周 is not in its usual 小篆 (small seal script). The 富 is definitely showing properly in its small seal script form. If it is "zhou fu" it's most likely the name of the artist. Zhou would be the family name.

Thanks so much for this! Maybe this is me showing my ignorance in terms of Chinese script, but could the symbols look unusual because they're upsidedown or sideways? I'm not sure what the correct orientation of the tusk ought to be to read that makers mark correctly.

 

[MineEyes92]

Of the end grain - like you were looking at the rings of a tree stump. Different varieties of ivory look different in cross section. A good clear closeup of the surface could help too, but the cross sectional view can tell you a LOT.

Here are more pictures of the tusk I just got from the owner, including the base. As you can see, it's unfortunately hollow. I'm not sure if you were hoping it would be solid.

 

[Yang Hao]

Thanks so much for this! Maybe this is me showing my ignorance in terms of Chinese script, but could the symbols look unusual because they're upsidedown or sideways? I'm not sure what the correct orientation of the tusk ought to be to read that makers mark correctly.

It's the correct orientation. The script could be how the designer signs his work. Here is an old auction of a Carved Ivory Tusk vase which has similar features to your piece.

A Carved Ivory Tusk Vase Depicting Monkeys.

A Carved Ivory Tusk Vase Depicting Monkeys. - Grays Auctioneers

www.icollector.com

 

[MineEyes92]

It's the correct orientation. The script could be how the designer signs his work. Here is an old auction of a Carved Ivory Tusk vase which has similar features to your piece.

A Carved Ivory Tusk Vase Depicting Monkeys.

A Carved Ivory Tusk Vase Depicting Monkeys. - Grays Auctioneers

www.icollector.com

Holy crap you're right! Those monkeys are in the exact same style. The makers mark looks different though, so does that mean that a different person made this tusk?

 

[MineEyes92]

It's the correct orientation. The script could be how the designer signs his work. Here is an old auction of a Carved Ivory Tusk vase which has similar features to your piece.

A Carved Ivory Tusk Vase Depicting Monkeys.

A Carved Ivory Tusk Vase Depicting Monkeys. - Grays Auctioneers

www.icollector.com

Okay. Now I feel like a complete idiot. I just went and searched, "carved ivory tusk monkeys" and got a bunch of image results for different items which all depict monkeys in that same art style. I can't believe I hadn't stumbled upon this in my earlier searches. I did notice though that several of those results were for items claimed to be Japanese https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/13290647_japanese-carved-ivory-tusk-with-macaque-monkeys

Lot - IVORY TUSK VASE Carved in relief with monkeys and wasps. Signed in seal form. Height 12¼".

www.eldreds.com

Do you think this was just an art style that might have been popular in both China and Japan or maybe the people listing these items were wrong about where they came from?

 

[callmez]

Here are more pictures of the tusk I just got from the owner, including the base. As you can see, it's unfortunately hollow. I'm not sure if you were hoping it would be solid.

I was thinking that it would be solid, cut off short from a longer tusk. That's a pretty small tusk. Was thinking that there's an outside chance it could be walrus, but from what I'm seeing I suspect you've got a small elephant tusk on your hands.

I can't help at all with the marking, glad that Yang Hao came to help! Will be watching to see what y'all come up with.

A warning to all: Elephant ivory became a hot topic several years ago and the Obama administration banned its sale in interstate commerce, by executive order. Enforcement is by USFWS. You do NOT want to sell something like this across a state line, that's a felony. Several states have also banned the sale of ivory, and some even lump fossil mammoth ivory in with the ban. (Sure, let's save the woolly mammoth from extinction!) Possession may even be illegal in some areas. Just want everyone to be aware that this is an issue as this is a fairly recent development.

 

[MineEyes92]

I had thought ivory was illegal to own if it came from an animal that was killed after a certain date. All this stuff about interstate commerce and criminal possession of any kind of ivory in certain areas is news to me. I appreciate this information. I'll have to look into this to be sure my friend isn't in trouble for having it.

I was thinking that it would be solid, cut off short from a longer tusk. That's a pretty small tusk. Was thinking that there's an outside chance it could be walrus, but from what I'm seeing I suspect you've got a small elephant tusk on your hands.

I can't help at all with the marking, glad that Yang Hao came to help! Will be watching to see what y'all come up with.

A warning to all: Elephant ivory became a hot topic several years ago and the Obama administration banned its sale in interstate commerce, by executive order. Enforcement is by USFWS. You do NOT want to sell something like this across a state line, that's a felony. Several states have also banned the sale of ivory, and some even lump fossil mammoth ivory in with the ban. (Sure, let's save the woolly mammoth from extinction!) Possession may even be illegal in some areas. Just want everyone to be aware that this is an issue as this is a fairly recent development.

 

[Emil W]

I had thought ivory was illegal to own if it came from an animal that was killed after a certain date. All this stuff about interstate commerce and criminal possession of any kind of ivory in certain areas is news to me. I appreciate this information. I'll have to look into this to be sure my friend isn't in trouble for having it.

Here's the federal law for ivory within the US...

https://www.fws.gov/guidance/sites/guidance/files/documents/What%20Can%20I%20Do%20With%20My%20Ivory.pdf

I haven't read it.

I've worked extensively with local NJ auctions over the decades. At one time we had a government official give a talk to an auctioneer's group about how it works in NJ.

Here's what I consider the most important takeaway from that talk -- If you're positive the ivory is antique you still need to have paperwork proving its provenance, including seller, date, and location of purchase, and that document has to be available to inspect on demand when the piece is displayed for sale. You can't say you have the paperwork but it's home, or the dog ate it, it must be kept within easy access to the item at all times. They're not even likely to let you run to the car to get it--they really don't like wasting time.

They take this very seriously if they're called into an auction house because someone reported items for sale without paperwork. About five years ago the fine was $10,000 for every individual piece in your possession without paperwork. No idea if that number has changed. But if you're talking about an ivory chess set that's $10,000 per piece.

I don't know if the same applies to other states.

Your tusk is definitely ivory and certainly has age to it. Ivory takes on a rich patina over time. It can also crack from shrinkage if it dries out--keep it out of the sun. I have little doubt it's old enough to be legally sold, but likely not without paperwork unless your state is different.

 

[MineEyes92]

Thank you for the information. I let my friend know about this stuff in case he ever wants to sell it. Definitely don't want him getting in trouble, but it seems like from what you're saying he should be okay as long as he keeps it and passes it down as an heirloom.

Here's the federal law for ivory within the US...

https://www.fws.gov/guidance/sites/guidance/files/documents/What%20Can%20I%20Do%20With%20My%20Ivory.pdf

I haven't read it.

I've worked extensively with local NJ auctions over the decades. At one time we had a government official give a talk to an auctioneer's group about how it works in NJ.

Here's what I consider the most important takeaway from that talk -- If you're positive the ivory is antique you still need to have paperwork proving its provenance, including seller, date, and location of purchase, and that document has to be available to inspect on demand when the piece is displayed for sale. You can't say you have the paperwork but it's home, or the dog ate it, it must be kept within easy access to the item at all times. They're not even likely to let you run to the car to get it--they really don't like wasting time.

They take this very seriously if they're called into an auction house because someone reported items for sale without paperwork. About five years ago the fine was $10,000 for every individual piece in your possession without paperwork. No idea if that number has changed. But if you're talking about an ivory chess set that's $10,000 per piece.

I don't know if the same applies to other states.

Your tusk is definitely ivory and certainly has age to it. Ivory takes on a rich patina over time. It can also crack from shrinkage if it dries out--keep it out of the sun. I have little doubt it's old enough to be legally sold, but likely not without paperwork unless your state is different.

 

[callmez]

Excellent post by Emil W.

Here's a link to summaries of the state regulations: https://kniferights.org/state-ivory-ban-summary/

...meant to include that the first time.

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

Instead of it being Ivory it may just be some type of cattle horn with it being hollow. IDK just a thought.

 

[MineEyes92]

I just wanted to thank everybody for your help. You've all given my friend and I good information on this piece, and I wanted to give a special shout-out to Yang Hao for translating the makers mark. It's because of you that we can attribute a person's name to this beautiful antique, and I thank you very much for this. If anybody else has more insight they would like to share, it is always welcome. Thanks again, everybody. Glad to be part of this community.