Welsh Dragon button id please ?

[ott]

Hello,
Please could anyone identify my recent detecting find.
The wording from what I can make out reads - ANORCH **YGOL
M.V.L

My first thoughts were maybe a Volunteer militia
The button measures approx. 18mm

 

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[duggap]

Is there anything on the back?

 

[Lenrac2]

Gorgeous button!

 

[islamoradamark]

nice find

 

[invent4hir]

Agree, nice button! Per an on-line translator YGOL translates to school. Not sure about the rest. Someone on TNet will likely ID.

 

[Red-Coat]

Very interesting. That’s one I haven’t seen before. It’s certainly a Welsh dragon and with a legend in Welsh. I have some family connections to Wales although the language is not one of my strong points but the possible translation depends hugely on whether there are any intended spaces in the letters, and particularly whether the space between ANORCH/YGOL is simply an interruption from the outstretched wing.

My feeling is that it’s an unintended space and it then potentially translates as “Irresistible” (in the sense of a dominant force rather than in the sense of seductively attractive) or more loosely as “Invincible”.

That would make more sense to me because I have a feeling in my water that ‘MVL’ might be related to ‘Monmouth(shire) Loyal Volunteers’, which would put the button sometime in the very early 1800s. I know that there were two yeomanry troops formed at Chepstow and Monmouth in 1798 and there are then mentions of various ‘Monmouth Volunteers’ shortly afterward (but they’re all poorly documented):

Monmouth Volunteers, established 22nd August 1803 under the command of Thomas Molyneux
Monmouthshire Yeomanry, established 22nd August 1803 under the command of Richard Lewis
Monmouthshire Volunteers, established 8th September 1803 under the command of Charles Morgan
Monmouth Volunteers, established 24th November 1803
Loyal Monmouthshire Volunteer Cavalry, c1809(?)

If it does relate to the above then it’s a pretty obscure button and a very nice scarce find. I’ve asked the Monmouth museum services if they can confirm or refute any of that and will let you know if they come up trumps.

 

[invent4hir]

Woo-hoo Red-Coat, will bookmark this thread as I'm eager to hear what the museum says

 

[Retired Sarge]

Woo-hoo Red-Coat, will bookmark this thread as I'm eager to hear what the museum says

Ditto, count me in too......

 

[JamieD]

Hi,

I think the mystery letter may be an F. Anorchfygol looks to be the motto of the Montgomeryshire Yeomanry and there is a medal here with the motto and a Welsh Dragon:

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/past-catalogues/lot.php?auction_id=455&lot_uid=295801

So it seems fair to assume a Montgomeryshire link.

There was a short lived Montgomeryshire Volunteer Legion raised in 1803 and the national army museum has a button from the described as being circa 1803 (no picture unfortunately). The initials would fit and I suspect this might be what you have.

https://collection.nam.ac.uk/invent...&ot[]=4&ot[]=31&otVA=1&ot[]=25&ot[]=33&flag=1

Jamie

 

[JamieD]

Looks to be further confirmation here as well as a suggestion that yours may be the officer’s version as it carries the motto:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42347

 

[Red-Coat]

Hi,

I think the mystery letter may be an F. Anorchfygol looks to be the motto of the Montgomeryshire Yeomanry and there is a medal here with the motto and a Welsh Dragon:

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/past-catalogues/lot.php?auction_id=455&lot_uid=295801

So it seems fair to assume a Montgomeryshire link.

There was a short lived Montgomeryshire Volunteer Legion raised in 1803 and the national army museum has a button from the described as being circa 1803 (no picture unfortunately). The initials would fit and I suspect this might be what you have.

https://collection.nam.ac.uk/invent...&ot[]=4&ot[]=31&otVA=1&ot[]=25&ot[]=33&flag=1

Jamie

Bingo! Well done for finding that. “ANORCHFYGOL” with the “F” in it still broadly translates as “Invincible” (literally “not overcome”).

These volunteer regiments were raised all over the Britain and Ireland in the early 1800s in the wake of sabre-rattling from France and the threat of invasion. Mostly they’re very poorly documented, but there’s a great summary for Montgomeryshire in “Collections Historical & Archaeological Relating to Montgomeryshire and its Borders” published in 1880. It’s too long to reproduce here, but you can read it in full the pdf file linked below as “Rise and Progress of the Volunteers in Montgomeryshire” by Charles Watkins Williams-Wynn, M.P.

https://ia802605.us.archive.org/2/items/collectionshist10unkngoog/collectionshist10unkngoog.pdf

Some extracts from the narrative:

In the early days of this century, in May 1801, an immense force was collected at Boulogne for the avowed object of the invasion and subjugation of Great Britain… Such was the effect produced on this side the Channel… that in July of that year extreme measures were taken by our own Government to call out the military forces of every description… In March 1802 came the welcome news of a cessation of hostilities, and, shortly after, of the signature of a treaty of peace at Amiens on the 25th of that month. All the militia and fencible regiments were ordered to be disbanded, and an assurance was offered by Government “that the reduction of the regular forces would speedily take place”. But these bright prospects were destined to be soon clouded over. The bounds of the treaty of Amiens were strained by Bonaparte to the uttermost, during the succeeding year; and it became evident to the most pacific intelligence, that they would not long hold out. The armament destined for a descent upon this country had never been removed from its position, and the fleet which was to cover its operations had not yet been destroyed by Nelson at Trafalgar.

The year 1803 opened with prospects as lowering and dismal, so far as they affected the interests of Great Britain, as had ever before threatened her very existence. The hostile intentions of Bonaparte were day by-day more clearly manifested… In March 1803, a message was brought to both Houses of Parliament, stating that in view of the extraordinary military preparations of France, it was expedient to adopt additional precautions for the security of the empire; and asking Parliament “to enable" His Majesty to take such measures as might be required, to support the honour of the Crown and the essential interests of the people….

The most strenuous efforts were at once made to pIace the country in a state of effective defence, the supplementary militia were called out, and ordered to be embodied on the 24th May, 40,000 to be enrolled for England, and 10,000 for Ireland. These numbers were to be raised by ballot, and the whole male population, not already enrolled in any volunteer regiment, between eighteen and forty-five, were declared liable to serve… The census of 1801 gave the adult male population of Montgomeryshire as 23,000. To assume that one half of these were within the limits of age prescribed by the Act as rendering men liable to service, and were also qualified in other respects to serve in the ranks, would be to take an exceedingly high estimate. Yet we find that, besides the regular militia force of the county, numbering 475 men, and the local militia, which may be estimated at 350 more, no less than 1,680 men out of the remaining inhabitants came forward as volunteers, when called upon to supplement the existing force. Of these, three troops, of forty men each, were cavalry, equal to 120; and twenty companies of seventy-eight rank and file, infantry; total, 1680.

In February 1804, the first-class effectives in Montgomeryshire, are returned as 3,426; the second class as 643; third class, 759; fourth class, 3,546; total, 8,374. Regular militia, 475; local militia, 350; volunteers, 1867; total 11,066, or within 500 of the very high estimate above indicated.

There’s also a piece of correspondence referenced which records that:

In July of this year [1808] several men belonging to the Legion expressed their wish to be transferred to the Local Militia. A correspondence took place on the subject, between Lieut. Col. Williams Wynn and the Earl of Powys, the Lord-Lieut., and their wish was acceded to; and on September 16th, the whole of the Volunteer Infantry of the Legion were transferred to the Local Militia. Upon their disbandment, they presented to their Colonel a set of silver dishes and covers, on the largest of which, a hot-water venison dish, is inscribed, "The Infantry of the Volunteer Legion to their Colonel, C. W. Williams Wynn, 1809", surmounted by the Red Dragon, the badge of the Regiment, with its motto, “Anorchfygol”.

 

[Red-Coat]

PS: the terms “Volunteers”, “Militia” (as “Locals”) and “Volunteer Militia” have different connotations in these times and later.

The differences relate to whether the personnel were conscripted (usually determined by ballot within eligible age-groups) or had truly volunteered their services; and whether they were formally recognised as a supplementary annex to the “regular” military. In the latter case, they would usually be entitled to the same pay as regulars, more suitably trained and equipped, and could be required to serve outside their home region if necessary. There are then further differences in terms of locally-raised militia that might be under the independent command of local landed gentry and differences in the nature of any conscription (such as being able to buy yourself out of service if you had the money to do so).

 

[ott]

This information is very much appreciated Thank you !
Interesting button and nice to show you all, On first seeing it after many years in the ground I thought it was an unmarked button until giving it a wipe over and the sun light shining on it to show the design.
THANKS AGAIN

 

[CRUSADER]

Nice Montgomeryshire Volunteer Legion button!
These are pretty rare & to the right person or Museum, they would love that example - CONGRATS