✅ SOLVED What kind of bugle is this?

[creskol]

Any idea as to the age of it?

 

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[djackson7348]

Looks like a Flugelhorn. I Don't know anything about the age though.

 

[Red-Coat]

Very interesting.

Strictly speaking, a bugle has no mechanical pitch control (no valves or slides), with the tonality range purely dependent on the skill of the player’s embouchure/lipping.

I would call it a cornet and it appears to have a single rotary valve, although I’ve never seen one where the valve is operated by that curious extension lever yours seems to have. Presumably for ease of playing. Some might call it a “(rotary) valved bugle” and there’s not much difference between cornets and flugelhorns apart from the bore. Rotary valve cornets are still made today, although it’s not a common instrument:



I couldn’t put a date to it, nor find a comparative example but it could be from around 1830 onwards. Are there any marks on it at all… maker, model, patent number or whatever?

 

[creskol]

Very interesting.

Strictly speaking, a bugle has no mechanical pitch control (no valves or slides), with the tonality range purely dependent on the skill of the player’s embouchure/lipping.

I would call it a cornet and it appears to have a single rotary valve, although I’ve never seen one where the valve is operated by that curious extension lever yours seems to have. Presumably for ease of playing. Some might call it a “(rotary) valved bugle” and there’s not much difference between cornets and flugelhorns apart from the bore. Rotary valve cornets are still made today, although it’s not a common instrument:

View attachment 2046986

I couldn’t put a date to it, nor find a comparative example but it could be from around 1830 onwards. Are there any marks on it at all… maker, model, patent number or whatever?

Thanks Red-Coat! The markings are pretty well worn away, but here is what I see.

 

[Red-Coat]

Thanks Red-Coat! The markings are pretty well worn away, but here is what I see. View attachment 2046988 View attachment 2046989

Thanks for the additional pics Creskol but I can't make out the lettering on the bell. On the valve, I see Do and R something (possibly Re) followed by a k or h and perhaps other letters.

In French, Italian and Spanish musical notation, 'Do' would be what we call 'C' and 'Re' (Ré in French) would be 'D'. In German, both would be as for English. Don't know what the k or h is, but it's not for 'sharp' or 'flat' in any of those languages. So, that gives some possible countries of origin but that's about all I could say.

 

[tamrock]

Pretty neat and potentially valuable I'm thinking. Hopefully it can be narrowed down on who made it and when it was made and also why it was made. I heard the high-school band playing in the distance last evening. It's great to still hear the pounding of the drums and horns in the air. I played the trumpet and in the marching band the Sousaphone. Bom, Bom, Bom. Mom was a music major and teacher, so we all tried are hand at something. I chose the swing band for the trumpet and had this dudes autograph on the back of a magazine, but lost it. We were picking my dad up at the airport back when you waited for passengers getting off at the tarmac and he said to wait because AL Hirt was on board. He came right up to me and signed that magazine I quickly found before he signed anyone else's request.

 

[devldog]

Nice looking bugle. The letters CSM, it makes you wonder if this could stand for Confederate States Marines....but you would think that it would be abbreviated as CSMC for the Confederate States Marines Corps. Just a thought. Good luck on the ID.

 

[devldog]

Pretty neat and potentially valuable I'm thinking. Hopefully it can be narrowed down on who made it and when it was made and also why it was made. I heard the high-school band playing in the distance last evening. It's great to still hear the pounding of the drums and horns in the air. I played the trumpet and in the marching band the Sousaphone. Bom, Bom, Bom. Mom was a music major and teacher, so we all tried are hand at something. I chose the swing band for the trumpet and had this dudes autograph on the back of a magazine, but lost it. We were picking my dad up at the airport back when you waited for passengers getting off at the tarmac and he said to wait because AL Hirt was on board. He came right up to me and signed that magazine I quietly found before he signed anyone else's request.

tamrock, Thanks for posting this. It brings back a lot of memories. Our Dad listened to Al Hirt and Herb Albert and the Tijuona Brass a lot in the 1960's. I can still hear the album's playing on the old floor console stereo system. That is cool that you got Al Hirt's autograph.

 

[Red-Coat]

Nice looking bugle. The letters CSM, it makes you wonder if this could stand for Confederate States Marines....but you would think that it would be abbreviated as CSMC for the Confederate States Marines Corps. Just a thought. Good luck on the ID.

It looks more like 'C5X' to me. It could be 'CSX' but the top limb of the middle letter is more angular than the bottom, so I think probably a '5'.

I would guess this to be a model number for the cornet. Cornets are usually made in the key of B flat, which would be consistent with the markings on the rotary valve to alter that pitch.

 

[Gare]

What about a French horn ?

 

[Red-Coat]

What about a French horn ?

The tubing is completely the wrong shape for that.

 

[Gare]

This is a modern model I was just making a suggeston

 

[creskol]

View attachment 2047016
This is a modern model I was just making a suggeston

Did they do away with the single rotary valve and replace it with the 3 finger valves as shown in your photo?

 

[devldog]

What about a French horn ?

The only tune it could play would be "Retreat"!

 

[Gare]

I am not sure i had just seen this model on the web but I think i am mistaken

 

[Red-Coat]

The picture shows a French horn, which your instrument is not. A French horn could have rotary or piston valves depending on the preference of the player and the type of music performed.

Valves (as opposed to slides) began to be introduced on brass instruments in the first part of the 19th century. Both rotary valves and piston valves do the same thing (using different principles) by increasing the available scale of notes for the player.

Piston valves produce a cleaner movement between notes which helps when playing quick passages of music. But they also have a larger travel when depressed such that you can easily “half-valve” the piston, which lends itself to jazz or blues music. They're more versatile in general and so more popular.

Rotary valves give a smoother transition between notes with a more mellow sound, which makes them better suited to lyrical passages in classical music and for orchestral concert musicians.

As I said, rotary valve cornets are still made but have fallen out of favour. These days, rotary valves are more widely used for other instruments more suited to concert playing than the cornet but have remained popular for brass bands… especially in continental Europe.

 

[fyrffytr1]

Does the valve stay in whatever position it is placed? I think it is more for changing the pitch, like a ring slide does on some brass instruments.

 

[fyrffytr1]

I think I found it or something very close. It is called a duplex bugle.
Here's a link: http://www.middlehornleader.com/Evolution of the Bugle -- Section 2.htm

Look about a third of the way down the page. I think someone may have added the stem to make it easier to change the pitch.

 

[Gare]

I think I found it or something very close. It is called a duplex bugle.
Here's a link: http://www.middlehornleader.com/Evolution of the Bugle -- Section 2.htm

Look about a third of the way down the page. I think someone may have added the stem to make it easier to change the pitch.

I think Fyrtytrl is on the right track

 

[creskol]

I think I found it or something very close. It is called a duplex bugle.
Here's a link: http://www.middlehornleader.com/Evolution of the Bugle -- Section 2.htm

Look about a third of the way down the page. I think someone may have added the stem to make it easier to change the pitch.

Thanks Fyrffytrl .. This is wonderful! I appreciate your efforts!