where there really any pirates?

[konnon6]

I've asked for years, were there really any pirates?If so where's the proof?I herd the town of Montery was threatened. But were they pirates?Were they spanish bandits? Say from mexico? Does anybody
have anything? leads of somekind?

 

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[DCMatt]

I did a Yahoo search and took this from a website:

_______________________________________________________________________
According to the experts, we can only lay claim to one true buccaneer. The California coast was never a hotbed of piracy. Pirates preferred to prowl the Atlantic and Caribbean coasts, following the merchant ships’ routes. Monterey holds the dubious distinction of being the only city in California to have been sacked by a pirate. It happened in 1818, during the Spanish-American wars of independence. Privateers from South America attacked Alta California, which was under Spanish control. French sea captain Hipólyte Bouchard led the attack and plundered Monterey. It was the only time California was conquered by an enemy—and a pirate.

Bouchard started out a privateer in the service of Argentina. In The Burning of Monterey, Peter Uhrowczik’s book about the 1818 attack, Uhrowczik describes Bouchard as tall and dark with piercing black eyes, and calls him “the most colorful privateer at the service of the rebels from Buenos Aires.” Uhrowczik quotes a Chilean historian, Barros Arana, who says Bouchard was “fearless to the point of recklessness, arrogant and excitable, rough in manners, without culture and hard in his feelings.”

I’m starting to swoon.

Uhrowczik, a writer who lives in Los Gatos, began researching Bouchard after overhearing an Argentine tourist asking about Bouchard in a Monterey bookstore. “You mean the pirate raid?” said the clerk.

“No, not a pirate—he was a patriot.”

“Well, he was a pirate to us.”

Uhrowczik says this conversation piqued his interest. He wanted to learn more about Bouchard, pirate or patriot.

“How come someone coming from that far away would attack Monterey?” he says.

Uhrowczik has since learned that Bouchard didn’t find the goods worth looting he had expected to find in Asian waters. So, after enduring a pirate attack on his own ship, with 40 of his men dying from scurvy, and following a horrible storm off Manila, Bouchard stopped off in Hawaii to recoup. There, he met an Englishman who told him about Monterey, and its suspected Spanish riches.


~ ~ ~
Piracy and its legal cousin, privateering, were not that uncommon from the Middle Ages through the end of the 19th century.

Uhrowczik writes that beginning in the 16th century, the governments of England, France, Holland and later the US used privateering to increase their naval power.

Privateers commanded privately owned vessels, armed at the owner’s expense with a government license—in the form of a letter of marque—to attack enemy ships. During the early 19th century, it was a legal and much admired profession. It was so successful in England, Uhrowczik writes, that England had trouble attracting crews to its regular navy.

Francis Drake was the most famous privateer, commissioned in 1577 by Queen Elizabeth I. And before he and his crew became the terror of the Atlantic Ocean and Caribbean Sea from 1716 through 1718, Blackbeard the dreaded pirate was Edward Teach the British privateer.

Privateering was a dangerous job, but with the potential to make lots of money, depending on how many enemy ships a privateer seized.

Bouchard, says Uhrowczik, was “an ideal privateer.”

“He was very effective in the Spanish-American wars of independence,” Uhrowczik says. “His job was to seize and attack Spanish property and assets, and he did that fairly well. I’m not sure he was very lucky, however.”

Bouchard didn’t find the Spanish riches in Monterey that he was counting on.

And his letter of marque expired shortly before he raided Monterey. So technically, Bouchard was no longer a privateer. He was a pirate.


~ ~ ~
Bouchard planned to attack Monterey at night. Even though it was the capital of Alta California, Monterey was a sleepy town, with about 400 citizens who lived within the walls of the Royal Presidio, near Lake El Estero. It also had a fort, El Castillo de Monterey, and a warehouse by the beach.

Rancho del Rey (present day city of Salinas) provided meat and horses for the soldiers and their families. In Carmel, the Mission San Carlos de Borromeo headquartered Alta California’s mission system. It also housed the community’s wealth.

Bouchard seemed to have a solid plan: sail into the Bay, covered in dense fog, unload the crew—a motley group of men whom Bouchard had picked up between the Philippines and Hawaii—and raid the town.

But even pirates have bad days, and the plan didn’t pan out. Bouchard didn’t vanquish the city at night. No one knows why he didn’t, says museum historian Tim Thomas. “They were probably too damn tired,” Thomas speculates.

Instead, the pirate arrived on a warm, sunny November afternoon in 1818.

“A beautiful day, probably like today,” Thomas says. “It was flat as hell out there so they couldn’t sail,” Thomas says. “A longboat towed the ships in, and anchored about where the end of the Monterey [Fisherman’s] Wharf is, pretty close in to the shore.”

We’re sitting in Thomas’ office in the Maritime Museum. Outside, it’s warm and bright. Sea lions bark and gulls scream. There’s no fog—not even a cloud—and the Bay is glass. Nice day for a tourist, bad day for a pirate. Bouchard could gain no element of surprise.

On Nov. 20, 1818, guards at the lookout at Point Pinos spotted Bouchard’s two vessels, The Santa Rosa and La Argentina. The next day, The Santa Rosa opened fire at El Castillo—the only battle on the Pacific Coast between a shore battery and enemy ships. The Spaniards on shore won the battle, and rejected Bouchard’s demand for surrender.

Both sides disagree about what happened next.

According to the governor, Don Pablo Vicente de Solá, the last Spanish governor of Alta California, “troops remained vigilant all night under a heavy rain,” writes Uhrowczik. “In contrast, Bouchard wrote, the enemy was celebrating at the fort with a dancing party.”

The next morning, Nov. 22, Bouchard’s 200 men landed at Lovers Point. Half-naked Hawaiians with spears led the charge, and by 10am, occupied the fort.

The Spaniards fled to Rancho del Rey. The town drunk, a settler named Molina, was the only resident who remained behind.

“Bouchard found there wasn’t much here to take,” Thomas says.

The crew began looting houses, but didn’t find much money or valuables. They shot some farm animals, and stole ham, water, butter, blankets and whatever Spanish fashion and furniture they could find.

Pirate or privateer, Bouchard was a good Catholic and he refused to pillage the Mission in Carmel—or any other missions he came upon in California.

Before leaving, the pirates set fire to the presidio houses. They were built of adobe, so all that burned was the beams.

“They took on water, some pigs, they found out adobe doesn’t burn,” Thomas says. “Then they left. And they took the town drunk with them.”

Bouchard later released Molina in Santa Barbara. Molina was, Uhrowczik writes, a local celebrity at this point. But that didn’t stop Solá from sentencing him to 100 lashes and six years in the chain gang.

Bouchard, on the other hand, remains a hero in Argentina to this day.

Perhaps Molina would have had better luck as a pirate.

 

[konnon6]

Thank you DC MATT
I thought as much,but I did here of some spainish who would loot ships of there cargo but never herd of there history.

 

[Isayhello2u]

go down to baja california and you will find many pirate stories

Most of the early pirates on the west coast seemed to have been dutch
and they mainly stayed in the baja california region trying to catch the Manilla galleon
fleet as it returned from china. They were called the Pichilingue
a good book is Peter Gerhard's Pirates on the West Coast of New Spain 1575-1742

 

[Tom_in_CA]

For about 150 yrs, even before the founding of the first mission in 1769 (San Diego), there was the Manilla galleon traffic going on along the west coast. The galleons, on their return trip across the Pacific, would hit the coast about the latitude of San Francisco/Sonoma area, and then head south back to Mexico. There were 1 to 2 of these trips per year, but no permanent settlements in CA (supposedly) during this time.

Yes, those galleons were susceptible to piracy, which is one of the reasons (among others) that the Spanish crown wanted to get alta CA harbors going, as a safe haven for their returning galleons.

But all of this has almost no bearing on the possibility of treasures for us hobbyists. The reason is, the west coast is absolutely nothing like the history and geographical features, that you read about in the gulf of Mexico region. Eg.: Mel Fisher stuff, treasure beaches where coins wash up, etc.... Our off-shore deeps plunge right off quickly, as opposed to Florida, where off-shores are shallow, and ships could accidentally wreck, etc...

But the biggest factor is that the shipping history along the CA coast was nothing at all, to begin with, like the treasures you read about @ South American, heading back to Europe (ala Mel Fisher, Bob Marx, etc...). The Manilla galleon traffic was mostly manufacured goods, like porcelins, spices, etc... Yes, there was silver heading TOWARDS Manilla, for payment, but the return trip, where they came by the coast of CA, was purchased goods. Even to the extent there was still some gold and silver on those ships, you would need a submarine to reach them, IF you could even locate one to begin with. That stuff won't be coming on the beaches, like you read about in the shallow Carribean beach stuff. Our only beach finds will be picnicker and swimmer losses.

There was one beached galleon found, back in the 1950s or 60s, on a remote stretch of Baja, CA. A beachgoer noticed lots of pieces of china, at low tide, after a storm, etc.. Word spread and soon people were helping themselves to souvineers too. A study was done, and it became apparent that this was a galleon that had beached in the 1600s. Much digging, study, was done, and the ONLY goods to be found was china wear, iron scrap, ribs of a ship under the sand, etc... Sure, this was only 1 of many galleons, but it does bear out the history of the typical cargo. Sorry to be a kill-joy

 

[cptbil]

RESEARCH!
Answers a WHOLE lot of questions!

 

[konnon6]

I do remember a wreck off anacapa Island that yelded some gold from the San francisco mint till it became a national park.Never herd more about it now?

 

[Urban Prospector]

Theres about 5 million in Aztec gold sitting on the seabed South of Oceanside.The Trinidad captained by Francisco de Ulloa went down there.He was commissioned by Cortez to search Alta California for the fabulous Seven Cities of Cibola.He was carrying the gold so as to relieve Cortez's men the burden of transporting it on foot.Some gold coins have washed up on beathes south of Oceanside in the past.Not really a Pirate story as it was scurvy that weakend the crew till only three were left.They abandoned the Trinidad and went south in a long boat to meet up with Cortez.A diary detailing the the ill fated history of the Ulloa journey was written by one Pablo Salvador Hernandez.Happy Hunting Mateys

 

[Isayhello2u]

oliver cromwell buccaneer of the 17th century
the guy who had the hurricane force winds named for him down in baja
(el cordanaso) does anyone know if he was ever captured?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=Isayhello2u
oliver cromwell buccaneer of the 17th century
the guy who had the hurricane force winds named for him down in baja
(el cordanaso) does anyone know if he was ever captured?
*************
HIO: I have posted on him elsewhere, both in here and in History Hunters.. No, he was never captured, but his ship was broken up in a one of century hurricane with the loss of all hands. I know exactly where his ship remains are and his hide out in Sinaloa. He took La Paz and sacked it.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[TreasureTales]

Many of the English "explorers" like Drake and Cook were actually British privateers who were after Spanish booty ("booty" in this case meaning loot, not butts). It is known that Drake had to sail The Golden Hind into a protected California bay in order to fix his ship. It is rumored that while the ship lay anchored in what is believed to be Drake's Bay (duh, hence the name) that he stashed a bunch of pirated Spanish silver on the coast while repairs were made. Then, due to the ship not being all that seaworthy, he had to leave the booty for a later trip - which he never made.

There was one researcher who claimed that Drake's Bay was not the actual site of the ship repairs. He claimed the real site was up on the Mendocino Coast. Scholars did not buy his theory, so Drake's Bay remains the most likely (or at least the most accepted) site. If a person visits Point Reyes National Seashore on the Marin County Coast, s/he will see chalky cliffs that could have reminded Drake of the White Cliffs of Dover, and just north of there is Drake's Bay. Seems very plausible that Drake did make repairs at the inlet later named for him because of its similarity in weather and topography to portions of England. Drake's Bay is not much of a bay, if truth be told. It is an inlet where Drake's Estuary enters the Pacific. Fresh water is handy and there were oak trees nearby for making ship repairs. The native Coastal Miwok were not aggressive, so Drake's Bay would have been a good place to stop for awhile.

 

[Skipper]

Theres about 5 million in Aztec gold sitting on the seabed South of Oceanside.The Trinidad captained by Francisco de Ulloa went down there.He was commissioned by Cortez to search Alta California for the fabulous Seven Cities of Cibola.He was carrying the gold so as to relieve Cortez's men the burden of transporting it on foot.Some gold coins have washed up on beathes south of Oceanside in the past.Not really a Pirate story as it was scurvy that weakend the crew till only three were left.They abandoned the Trinidad and went south in a long boat to meet up with Cortez.A diary detailing the the ill fated history of the Ulloa journey was written by one Pablo Salvador Hernandez.Happy Hunting Mateys

I just stumbled upon this thread and it has peeked my interest for something to do this Winter....
How far South from Oceanside? What beach have the coins been found on?? Diver's beach? Isn't Tressles around there? or is that Domes? Duh Thanks for your input.

PM the answer if you want?

 

[Urban Prospector]

It's stated that they carried about half the gold up the Rio San Luis Rey. That's all they had the manpower to take off the ship. They travelled three days up river and buried it in a cave.Skeletal remains wearing Spanish armor with their skulls crushed by stone axes were found in the area west north west of what is now Oceanside harbor. That is and was a natural harbor and the San Luis Rey river runs into the sea there. The ship carrying the remainder of the gold was abandoned and drifted south unmanned were it sank.
The area is south of Camp Pendleton.

 

[Skipper]

Thanks for the information...Next high surf storm, if we have a storm this winter, I'm gonna give it a look see...

Thank you,

Skipper

 

[Skipper]

Francisco De Ulloa
Died 1540. It is not known when he came to Mexico nor if he accompanied Hernan Cortés in his first expedition to California. Authorities are divided upon these questions. Díaz del Castillo relates that during the absence of Cortés, his wife, Doña Juana de Zuñiga (Juñeja), sent letters to him by Ulloa, begging him to return. Ulloa, in charge of two ships loaded with provisions, reached Cortés when he was sorely straitened, and he returned to Mexico in 1537. Ulloa soon followed. Eager for new discoveries, Cortés undertook an expedition at his own expense in 1538, dispatching a fleet of three boats under the command of Francisco de Ulloa. According to Clavigero, Ulloa sailed along the coasts of the California peninsula until he was obliged by the scarcity of provisions to return to New Spains, where, in 1540, according to Díaz del Castillo , he was stabbed by a soldier and killed. Other historians relate, however, that of the three boats which sailed from the port of Acapulco the "S. Tomás" was soon lost; the "S. Agueda" was obliged to seek port in Manzanillo to repair damages, was afterwards driven by a tempest to the shores of Culiacan, where it joined the "Trinidad," returning shortly with the discontented members of the expedition, and the ship "Trinidad," under command of Ulloa, was lost, no trace having been found of her.

I found this in a Catholic Encyclopedia on-line.;

Does this have something to do with "The Lost Ship" of the Salton Sea? Or is there the Trinidad, on the Ocean floor south of Oceanside..

My research is sketchy at best...more time is definitely needed.

Where may I find the story about the coins found on the beach?

Thanks

 

[Mackaydon]

Urban:

I believe that story of the Trinidad was debunked years ago; including the same story as presented by a local 'authority'--also many years ago--but its allure, like so many other legends, keeps being passed down and around as 'fact'.

I can also tell you the story of another guy whose name occasionally appears on TNet, who once, during a marine arch. class I was attending in Long Beach many years ago, presented the class with his story of having bored three feet into the sand at Oceanside and brought out core samples of what he claimed was from the Trinidad's hull. He only needed a few thousand dollars to complete his examination. Give me a break!!

If you want to find some real treasure on the west coast, first research the gold rush passenger steamer trade and note the wrecks along the shores of Baja.

Another suggestion is to contact (maybe join) the California Wreck Divers Association http://www.cawreckdivers.org/ (No, I'm not a member today.) One or more of their members has been quite successful in this area of gold rush steamers.
Don.......

 

[Urban Prospector]

I wasn't there I can't say it's fact. That said, I can say I've read passages of one Pablo Salvador Hernandez's diary said to be one of three survivors of the Trinidad. Story is after waiting for the return of his Captain for weeks the 3 remaining hands returned in a long boat as they couldn't handle the Trinidad with only a crew of 3.
I've read other reports that it was Santa Barbara not San Luis Rey that the ship sank at.An old book I have copy right 1927 confirms (seems to) the SLR/Oceanside location.There was (allegedly) a mass grave found in Oceanside in 1937 "The skulls all showed signs of scurvy and Spanish armor was found in the Graves" as I remember it. I've tried to find that article ( I read a xerox) but the Spanish civil war also happened in '37 so graves/ mass graves along with Spanish as keywords are just lessons in frustration for me and the internet. I can find food in the middle of nowhere and cook it too as well as dig all day and carry close to my own weight. But I type with 2 fingers and want to beat up the 'puter for not cooperating.A researcher I ain't.
Many say I talk too much and give away secrets. Ya so. If something I post helps or opens some dumb luck lead, right on, more power to ya. If it's totally BS that some one tricked me with at some point in my past, oops. Like they say about love I feel about treasure, Better to have searched and failed then to never have searched at all. Luck be yours...Urb.

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey Guys,
I came across a story about a man named JJ Markey who worked at the San Luis Rey Mission back in the 50's and found what he believed was Ulloa's remains. He hired a couple researchers to dig in the Spanish Archives and found That after Ulloa landed ( around Oceanside ) most of the men died from scurvy. Ulloa's skull and I think 6 others were found in a cave east of the San Luis Rey Mission. The other skulls were not European, which leads credibility to what some say that when he left he took several " working girls " with him. According to the story, 2 members of his crew rowed something like 1000 miles south before they were rescued. Markey also found a quite a few coins some years later with information from the researchers. I hate to be vague on this I just can't remember where I read it. It was a GREAT story though. If anyone knows the site address or has heard anything else on this I sure would love to hear more...

PLL

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Very few mariner's logs of the Mexico to Manilla galleon traffic survive. But of those that do, there are records of them stopping in the channel islands area, while on the way back to Mexico. Or, if not landing, at least trading with indians who came out in canoes, upon sighting them. The indians in the canoes of one recorded incident "implored the captain to come ashore at his village to trade. The captain declined. So the indian upped the antie and promised 2 virgin indian women for each sailor, if they would only come ashore there to trade. The captain again declined" True story! Although humorous, it does show that the indians by this time (long before the mission period of CA) had become accustomed to passing ships (2 or 3 per year on the Manilla traffic).

There are also accounts of ships in the pearl trade of Baja CA, coming further north to see if their were pearls this far north (alta CA), but they returned with news that it was barren, and no pearls further north. So this shows that there were, aside from the more colorfully recorded explorations, various other passing ships before the permanent toe-holds of the missions. But I would not classify these as "pirates" necessarily, nor did they have the same cargoes as the Mel Fisher type stuff. When the ships came back from Manilla, they had spices, china, silk, etc... Not gold and silver. To the extent there were ships with precious metals, and to the extent they might have sunk off of CA, it's not going to be like the stuff you read about washing up on Florida beaches. Our off-shore topography is not like the shallows of the gulf of Mexico, where storms drove ships right on to the beach. I bet anything that sunk here, would need scuba, if not a dive sub, to even reach them. The CA coastal shelf (depths, lengths, types of storms, etc...) is not as condusive to beached shipwrecks, as the gulf of Mexico.

So when you add it all up, the history, the type shipping, and the type of coast, the beach hunter here is going to be looking for picknicker losses after storms, not Spanish shipwreck stuff.