THE RETURN OF THE GIANTSERPENT

[Oroblanco]

Kanabite wrote

well that did it . looks like i killed the discussion. i guess one should not make such grand claims

HOLA amigo Kanabite!
You're kidding right? I think most of our friends have been pretty busy, which is why most all of the threads have been more quiet than usual. As for myself, I count it lucky if I can get online each night, often enough can't do it. Had quite a setback with our house-building project yesterday so time has gotten to be a real bugaboo for me.

All my excuses aside, I was waiting out of respect to see what else you have to say, and what our more learned and experienced members would respond before I start firing a bunch of questions at you. I think I have allowed our friends enough time, perhaps they are also waiting to see what else you want to add? Oh well - here goes, please don't take this as some kind of personal attack, if it sounds as if I am skeptical you know that it is good to keep a skeptical but open mind.

Kanabite wrote

i am of the opinion that inside the lobes of this codice are place names
written in ideograms and of eight assumed spots , i think i know where four of them are located.

I am going to address your first statement first - that seems a very logical conclusion, as all Aztec writing is heiroglyphic in nature, which is ideograms put into "shorthand" form. I am not able to read Aztec, but think that your idea is likely correct, but that there are at least two possible meanings for the ideograms. One would be a place name, but another would be a family or tribal division name, sort of like the 12 tribes of Israel but in this case the tribes who joined together to become the Aztecs. Are you able to read them, and if so, what do they mean?

The second part of your statement, that you may know where four of them are located - will be tough to prove, for first we would need to establish that the codice showing the cave IS a set of ideograms which are place names, then have some kinds of evidence to show that these places can be identified with those specific ideograms. I will not ask you the specific locations, but would like to know if any or all of these places are within the USA? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

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[kanabite]

HI ORO ,
you are fine I have not taken any offence to what you have said . trust me i have had to defend my position before about this claim even from the beginning . i have been accused of pareidolia on an extreme scale , and i guess if all i did was wander around looking for the image of the virgin Mary in bird poop that would be accurate ,but i have had to implement checks and balances into the search for these things .


I am going to address your first statement first - that seems a very logical conclusion, as all Aztec writing is heiroglyphic in nature, which is ideograms put into "shorthand" form. I am not able to read Aztec, but think that your idea is likely correct, but that there are at least two possible meanings for the ideograms. One would be a place name, but another would be a family or tribal division name, sort of like the 12 tribes of Israel but in this case the tribes who joined together to become the Aztecs. Are you able to read them, and if so, what do they mean?


well as far as i can gather from researching this, ideograms translate to "picture thought " and they might be three fold , like i said i am of the opinion that inside the lobes are place names . a good example are the characters of the heads with a symbol behind it . there are many translated place names with in the codex Mendoza that seem to fit this idea . and you might be correct that perhaps the native name for the places might also be the name each of the tribes associated them selves with . i guess i left a little part out of the brief overview that might help explain why i think in this bizarre fashion. i believe that the places are marked within the landscape .and this marker is almost a duplicate to the way each glyph was drawn. although i am not sure exactly how much of each place was natural before ,i do think that the markers in each spot were changed on some degree each to mimic the pattern with in the lobes .or the symbols in the lobes were drawn to mimic the markers .(something like that anyway). as far as being able to read them , the ideograms were drawn in a manner that one would not necessarily have to know the exact word in the native tongue to read them .in fact coming up with the native word has become most difficult , because i do not have a translation for each of these glyphs , but i do have about 600 similar characters from the codex Mendoza to help get an idea of how they work.i realize that if i happen to be right about this , it was a great undertaking to change a mountain or ledge in some way to give a recognizable pattern to the native observer , but please keep in mind that they did not think like we do . to them the mountains and the earth was a great part of their religion . their gods lived and were with in every thing around them , and they went to great extremes to worship such things in very bizarre ways .




The second part of your statement, that you may know where four of them are located - will be tough to prove, for first we would need to establish that the codice showing the cave IS a set of ideograms which are place names, then have some kinds of evidence to show that these places can be identified with those specific ideograms. I will not ask you the specific locations, but would like to know if any or all of these places are within the USA? Thank you in advance,




as time allows oro i might post some pics to help explain this , but it does tend to draw a little to much attention to what i am up to. please forgive me this weekend as i am trying to get my trailer up on the hill , for the archery elk and deer hunts . its become a ritual i guess over the years , and i am running behind this year . in answer to your question , of the four spots that i feel have been found . they sit within an area SO FAR that is located in the southwest united states . one of them i am not going to be able to post pics of ,because it is not mine . but the other three i will have to load up , with their ideogram counterpart. there are only seven lobes , but the eighth one the Aztec version of 'curl mountain" sits at the top of the codice . and i think i loaded that one back at the beginning of this topic.

 

[kanabite]

ooops i forgot to say something , what ever this codice is or is not ,i am not sure ,it might be that it should have been titled the JOURNEY from the caves of origin. instead of chicomoztoc or what ever you can come up with between being translated from the Aztec to the Spanish and then to English , but of the four spots that i believe have been identified from using it . the area covers four different western states . i suspect that the other four that i have not seen are laid out in a similar fashion between these states and Mexico , but i only have so much time to look .from what i can gather these other three places that i have had the privilege of taking pictures of all have ties to Darrell's mountain , both in antiquity , and even today by the way each one of them have been subject to special restrictive land management regulations. this thing is a mess Oro , i almost wished the bowman was here , i wanted to ask him about that poem he wrote and then deleted , something about "stander of the now". forgive me now i really got to go for a while , still have a ton of things to do.

 

[Oroblanco]

Kanabite wrote

<snip>....for the archery elk and deer hunts...<snip>

Good luck on your hunts amigo! We were not lucky enough to draw elk OR deer tags again but maybe will get a pronghorn tag. It kind of stinks not to have an elk tag, we have located two herds with very big bulls but there is always next year.

Your finding of identical (or near identical) ideograms on other codices is certainly encouraging, and the idea that the place names may well also identify the clans that made up the founding tribes is also both logical and with precedents. I look forward to hearing more!

I too miss our mutual amigo Blindbowman, despite our difficulties in communications he definitely would think "outside the box" and often that pays off, as you are demonstrating. I think that he may return to drop in on us some time in the future, you know these treasure legends have a way of getting into your blood and sticking with you for life.
Good luck and good hunting amigo!
your friend in 'Dakota Territory',
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[kanabite]

hi oro , you got an email address you could PM me ? i'm not hunting yet ,but the trailer is on the mountain . working this week . so i'm not home yet . i'll send you a picture . i kind of thought you were the only one interesred . i might have posted one of them here before .

saw 11 elk , three of them bulls . not real big ,but not bad for the open side . lots of deer , one nice buck . not a whopper ,but maybe 180 ,,, 4 point , real nice front forks , pretty velvet and heavy . it made me smile .

this topic is not about me , it 's about that book my friend wrote . i use to think i knew stuff .
wow did i have a long ways to go ....

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigo,

Kanabite wrote

hi oro , you got an email address you could PM me ? i'm not hunting yet ,but the trailer is on the mountain . working this week . so i'm not home yet . i'll send you a picture . i kind of thought you were the only one interesred . i might have posted one of them here before .

saw 11 elk , three of them bulls . not real big ,but not bad for the open side . lots of deer , one nice buck . not a whopper ,but maybe 180 ,,, 4 point , real nice front forks , pretty velvet and heavy . it made me smile .

Here is my email amigo - I don't keep it private; <it is easier for friends to find me this way>

[email protected]

I believe that several of our friends here are also avid hunters, and would find it interesting. If you would prefer not to discuss it in this thread we could start a new thread? It sounds like you are in a VERY good area, and you know only too well those really big bulls (and big bucks) tend to be the toughest to catch sight of, they get very wily and sometimes go to fully nocturnal in habits so they also tend to survive hunting seasons. Unless some really good or really lucky hunter knows how to find their hiding spots!

Kanabite also wrote

this topic is not about me , it 's about that book my friend wrote . i use to think i knew stuff .
wow did i have a long ways to go ....

Hey buddy I know JUST how you feel! It seems like the more we learn, the more we find there is so much more and we have barely scratched the surface. Heck I just learned yet another little "clue" in the Lost Dutchman saga, which could be a red herring but is odd - and I thought I had all the pieces to that mess!

Good luck in your hunt amigo, I hope you get a shot at "the" bull and buck of a lifetime!
your friend in 'Dakota Territory'
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[pegleglooker]

MAN !!!!! This is REALLY GREAT!!!!! bump bump bumpity bump.....

PLL

 

[HappyTrails55]

bump, bump, bumpity bump, hee,hee....at the end of the day, it's time for Beer:30 (sometimes before, hee,hee), the Politicians are affraid of the Environmentalists and their both in the Deep Pockets of the Special Interest Lobbyist Groups, every year at this time California Wild Fires Erupt throughout this State and the Forestry Service that wants ALL OF THE LAND for their own AND kicks out the Rightful AMERICAN PEOPLE, tell us about the wonderful concept they have to manage it with the environmentalists and every FIRE that destroys not only Public Property, VAST FOREST LANDS of Birds, Animals, Fish, DARKENS THE SKIES OVER THE ENTIRE STATE, VAST AIR POLLUTION.....that No Private Enterprise could even begin to compete with in Pollution Standards. The BLM is Managing OUR PROPERTY and they in-turn are Completely Reckless and are as CORRUPT & CRIMINAL as the Above Parties...Mixed in with all of this, you got those Folks out there that are in Cahoots with all of the Above that we call "ARCHAELOGISTS" and the Assigned History Scholars, Associated Studies, Select Studies of Antropology, Petroglphology, etc..., hey! they MAKE LAWS TO KEEP US IN THE DARK....WHILE THEY ABSCOUND WITH OUR DOLLARS!...NOW they want to Manage OUR HEALTH CARE!!!!!!!!!! I just walked outside this morning and LOOKED UP INTO THE DARKEN SKY WITH ASHES FROM THE FIRES FALLING DOWN !!! See, it doesn't really matter if I smoke cigarettes or not, the POLLUTION FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND STATE IS ENOUGH!!! THIS IS HOW THEY MANAGE HEALTH CARE!!!!!...Time for a Beer and it's only 7:a.m........hee,hee..........Darrell

 

[kanabite]

Hey I know that guy !!!
nice mountain in the background !!!!!
must be a very special place

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[kanabite]

oooops i got to go , i'm suppose to be on my mountain . hi Oro , i got your email , so glad you liked the pictures . one more for now and then I will have to continue this from camp ...



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[kanabite]

OK just one more , but then i really got to go .

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[cactusjumper]

kanabite,

I have recommended this book before, I believe to bowman. If you would like professional opinions on how to read Mapa de Cuauhtinchan No. 2, I would suggest that you find a copy of the following book:

"Cave, City, and Eagle’s Nest"
___________________________________________________________

[Cave, City, and Eagle’s Nest: An Interpretive Journey through the Mapa de Cuauhtinchan No. 2
The Mapa de Cuauhtinchan No. 2 is a ‘masterpiece of cultural history and religious memory’ that was created by native Mesoamerican artists just two decades after the Spanish Conquest of México. Through over 700 images and symbols painted on the large amatl bark paper, the map tells of the migration and settlement of the Aztec’s Chichimec ancestors through ritual ordeals, awesome landscapes, and a monumental city.
Davíd Carrasco, in collaboration with Scott Sessions, edited a volume entitled ‘An Interpretive Journey through the Mapa de Cuauhtinchan No. 2’ which examines the cultural, historical and artistic importance this map, one of México’s true national treasures. The book contains 15 essays written from a variety of scholarly approaches that entered into dialogue with each other during the project.

Participating Harvard faculty: Davíd Carrasco, Neil L. Rudenstine Professor for the Study of Latin America at the Divinity School and at the Faculty of Arts and Sciences
Collaborators: Scott Sessions, Princeton University; Mariana Straulino
Collaborating Institutions: Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology]
http://www.drclas.harvard.edu/mexico/faculty/projects/carrasco
____________________________________________________________

You will understand why it is, likely, the best interpretation after you read it and the qualifications of those who participated in the report. It is worth the effort and cost, if you are interested in the subject.

Very nice pictures!
________________

Roy,

If you make it to the Dutch Hunter's Rendezvous, I will bring my copy of the above book, and loan it to you for the weekend. Do you have a copy of "Collapse" by Jared Diamond? If not, I would be happy to send you the extra copy I have.......N/C

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

Roy,

If you make it to the Dutch Hunter's Rendezvous, I will bring my copy of the above book, and loan it to you for the weekend. Do you have a copy of "Collapse" by Jared Diamond? If not, I would be happy to send you the extra copy I have.......

I hope to meet you (and some others) at the Rendezvous, and would appreciate the read! I may well take you up on Collapse, let me check our local libraries (Edgemont and Newcastle, get to them fairly often) so might be able to borrow a copy at no expense to anyone.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I actually have three copies of the book. One is signed....."Best Wishes", and looks like it was signed by a Dr., which is standard for Diamond. The other two are like new, and if you email me an address, I will send it to you Monday. Not much cost will be involved, and you can add it to your library.

I hope you and Beth do make it down for the Rendezvous and know you will both enjoy it.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

OK buddy I am sending you the address via PM in a moment - thank you in avance, and I will reimburse you.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[HappyTrails55]

By ROYAL DECREE OF THE GODS...hee,ee

 

[HappyTrails55]

This last Picture of the GRAND CANYON was taken sometime in the 1890's or more or less 20 Years BEFORE the NPS or the NATIONAL PARK SERVICE was Created. Many More Pictures of this Exist on up to Present Day. I have many that SHOW GREAT DETAIL*. When our General Legislative Elections come along in the future, just remember these things and the people we put in Office to Represent us and to forge the LAWS of Our Country. There are many of these Legislators, Congressman and CongressWomen, SENATORS and Alike and even Our Presidential Representative that ALL have taken the OATH of OFFICE to PROTECT & SERVE OUR CONSTITUTION. It's TREASONIST TO BREAK THAT OATH, yet we are faced with them trying to Destroy many of the Amendments of the Constitution. I am a PRO-AMERICAN, AMERICAN, like Many or All of You. The American Outdoors is EVERYTHING TO ME. I am NOT READY FOR ANARCHY. I'm just a 'Prospector' that loves rocks, hunting, fishing, exploring, hiking, camping, campfires.....and these here people in Congress want to take all of that away from me...and more than that, FROM YOU...YOUR AMERICAN HERITAGE. Darrell

 

[DesertRat]

Darrell I know how you feel about the politics. Whenever our govt. suits seem fit to find an area profitable...BAM...instant park, wilderness area, extension of military operations...the list goes on.

But the Mountain remains a mystery for them.

 

[kanabite]

o man ,nice pictures!!!!!!!!
sorry for not getting back to this until today , had a little accident on a 4 wheeler .
i think i hate those things , don't really see the need to ride one of them again .

any way , em . Darrell , ya what you are saying about what has been going on for a little over 100 years with the powers that be ,i have seen with my own eyes . even lived through
the BLM breaking every rule in the book about a treasure . and it is not right . and they did not just do these things to me , they did it to every one of us . the motto seems to be steal the treasure , blow up, cover up the evidence that there ever was one , and then lock it up , so no one ever knows . tyranny , or treason , either one says it all.

 

[kanabite]

and CJ thank you for the suggestion , i will have to study it a little more than just google books . i think i have read something about this book you recommended being used as a reference before . seems the author of another book or search for these things , placed the curl top mountain in a northern province of Mexico . i think i like my picture better for the place . but it would not be the first time scholars did not agree with little ole me . but thank you for the suggestion . every once in a while something clicks .