Two Moons North

[piegrande]

There is something people should be aware of. I worked as a diagnostician (not what they called it, but what it was) in a large, very high tech electronics factory.

When diagnosing anything, there is a concept called differential diagnosis. That means you not only look for evidence that your diagnosis is correct, but also for evidence that your diagnosis is incorrect.

This is one of the big differences between a new kid in the ole' factory and a battle hardened diagnostician.

Medical diagnostic books list for common symptoms and illnesses, the list of things that can be confused for that disease, and tell how to eliminate the other possibilities.

That is part of the reason so many years passed before I began to believe local traditions that the gold is here.

A big negative would be learning that another place also belonged to Morono II, and that they have the same local tradition of the gold being buried there. At this point in my studies, there is no serious and specific alternative candidate for the gold being hidden anywhere. And, the actual discovery of gold here around 100 years ago is a really unique indicator.

 

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[kanabite]

I absolutely believe the legend that they went north for two months. That is exactly the legend the Aztecs would create once Morono II (Moctezuma II, whom I have labeled The Moron based on all the stupid things he did) was dead, and intelligent kinfolk took over.

Hey, everybody, look, we are going north! Pass it on! North! Tell everyone, North!

No way the Aztecs would openly take a billion dollars worth of gold in plain sight anywhere.

However, Kanabite has done exactly what I advocate. He has formulated a theory that the gold went north to unknown places, and is working on that theory. So, though I have the exact opposite theory, I cannot criticize his decision. And, it does keep y'all out of our hair.

When I actually began to take my theory seriously was when I realized the difference between a vague legend, and consistent oral tradition in a specific place, with all supporting evidence being totally consistent with it.
More later

oh please don't think i am claiming to have some kind of corner on the market here, i have no problem at all with you having something buried under that house you have posted about .i don't have time to play today , but will come back to this later. i think the last time i checked there were something like 17 different claims , in different spots , states etc.. all vague legends . and i have no doubt that oral tradition is handy , IMHO it is far from infallible for any kind of solid source reference.

 

[piegrande]

I would sure like to know more about these other places. Whether there is documented evidence of Tenocha ownership, as there is here. Whether they have actually found signifcant gold there as they did here. Things like that. If you encounter any links or reasonably accessible sources on other places, it would be my priority to obtain them ASAP. Unless you also do not wish to disclose them for similar reasons.

I am serious when I say I definitely want to test the negative. I am well aware that serious evidence for other locations similar to that available here would be a big negative. Even if only indicating a divided treasure. After all, dividing the treasure would also be logical from a military viewpoint.

But, "vague legends" are simply not enough to change my mind. This community does not have vague legends.

And, I do not expect anyone to take the local oral tradition here seriously. I have been visiting or living here for over 30 years, and if you are not here, my recital of the oral tradition should rightly have no meaning to those who don't even know where I am.

Nor do the historical sources I am using as supporting evidence, when I decline to identify them, so you can check them out.

I would emotionally like to name names and locations. But, clearly, with no chance to ever check it out, bad attention would be brought on this community with no chance of gain.

 

[piegrande]

I guess what I am trying to say, and doing a bad job of it, is if everyone here knew what I know, and had talked to the locals including the elderly people and read the history materials I have read, they would also tend to believe the treasure might well be here.

However, since they have not done so, then it is totally rational for them to dismiss this as just another vague legend.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[kanabite]

I am serious when I say I definitely want to test the negative. I am well aware that serious evidence for other locations similar to that available here would be a big negative. Even if only indicating a divided treasure.

to bad your not closer to utah for this presentation Randy Bradford is about to give , im sure he could fill you in on different locals that have been claimed to be resting places for this thing . i personally have no problem with the idea that if any of that treasure still exists hidden out there , that it was divided . it seems more logical to me than 2000- to 6000 Mexica wandering up "unnoticed " in some great group, or convoy away from folks who could have tracked them.look at it like this , i am hunter , not only of treasure but also big game , like deer and elk , and i prefer to do it with a bow cause it is a challenge and more fair IMO than shooting them with a high power rifle . its pretty easy when your following big game to track a big herd of whatever animal you are tracking , but pretty easy to lose the tracks of just a few in a small group . id love to share some possible supporting evidence with you , but seems like that kind of stuff has gotten me followed in the past . so i guess we are going to just have to discuss this in the realm of generalities and possible histories instead

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Piegrande: you need some coffee also, I, among others, know exactly what you are referring to.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[piegrande]

Interesting. I typed in some details on local beliefs, and when I hit post quick reply it simply deleted it. Will try again later.

 

[piegrande]

I want to give examples demonstrating local beliefs here about the presence of the treasure.

My wife was born here in 1942, nearer the Centro on property belonging to her father's family. Her mother died in 1946 after being kicked in the stomach by soldiers who were looking for her husband to conscript him, when she refused to tell where he was. She died two weeks later from peritonitis.

At that time, she and two younger siblings were moved to the House of Moctezuma to be cared for by her grandmother. Her grandfather's mother was a Moctezuma, and he inherited the land when his father died in the 30's. (A neighbor told me yesterday that they have a photo of that woman's own mother. it is believable because the grandpa's mother was born in 1866, so her mother could easily have been alive in the 1890's, which is when other families were having photos made)

When she was still a young girl, men used to ask the grandfather for permission to dig under his avocado trees for the treasure. He always let them.

Once someone asked him why he let people make such a mess around his trees. He said, "well, first they aren't going to find anything." (I consider this sort of a Freudian slip, since there is only one way he can be sure they won't find anything under those trees.)

"Next, if I tell them, no, they will eventually kill me and dig anyway. Besides, digging around the roots is good for my trees."

This attitude reflects a wide spread belief in the existence of the treasure here. That all by itself is not serious evidence the treasure is here. I formed my opinion only after discovering considerable and totally consistent supporting evidence, including the ownership of this land by the Tenochas in that era.

Speaking totally from my own observation, around 10 years ago, I forget exactly, we came back from the States and there was a deep hole, coffin sized in our back yard. Two cousins got tanked up and concluded the treasure was right in that spot. Gosh it makes an excellent place to toss food garbage. I tease them when it gets full, I will buy them a bottle of whiskey.

Again, this reflects the wide spread, long held belief in this community that the treasure is here, as opposed to some vague legend as described on this thread. Rural Mexican people do not dig all day under a hot sun based only on vague legends.

The man who owned the land before my BIL bought it in 1993, he is now deceased, told people that many years ago when he was a small lad, which means early 20th Century, someone dug in our back yard, we know where he said it was, and found a tunnel down there. Tunnel is a separate issue from treasure of course, but still interesting.

I agree with the policy of not being too specific in details for our protection. In my case, I have nothing to hide as far as details, except the location, which is what you would most need to verify my belief.

There is a lot of stuff on the web, including a doctoral thesis on the House of Moctezuma in a European university. Again, not relevant to the treasure, but interesting.

Actually, my secrecy is not for myself. I fear very little, being ready like any good Irishman, to die any time it comes at me, and anything less than death doesn't concern me much. But, the old uncles are vulnerable. And, the whole community does not need treasure hunters sniffing around.

Or, worse yet, government snoops.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

My wife was born here in 1942,

Ah ha I knew it you too were a cradle robber.

With either OIRISH or Mexican tranquilizer.

Keep posting my friend.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. another reason for their digging is that for most, that ttis is the only route out of poverty, although Fires and sounds are to a Mexican as the sound of 'Play Ball" is to a gringo Yankee.

 

[piegrande]

For many years, the route out of poverty for more rural Mexicans has been working illegally in the USA.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Agreed my friend, most of my firends here have gone that route - being a former Border Patrol officer this has given me mixed emotions, since while helping many Mexican families, , I can't help but remember the long lines at the Unemployment office in McAllen,Texas, where as I passed one day one of the raggety looking men called out "Good morning Officer, May I buy you a cup of coffee in appreciation for your work?"

'Yer damned if you do, and damned if you don't.' The key is to reform Mexico so that they don't have to go north.

If some of those protesting in the States would return to Mexico and do the same, perhaps they could make the first step.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[piegrande]

Actually, Mexico is changing very fast. In many ways.

And, world economists are predicting that in another generation Mexico will be the major economic power in the Western hemisphere.

I do see what they are talking about.

Many of those changes have come about because of the illegals. They live and work in the US. When they come back, the problems of Mexico are very obvious. And, while in the US, they also learn what to do about it.

In all areas. Hygiene; infrastructure; politics; house wiring; you name it. Things are changing fast.

My electricity in Texas goes out more often than my electricity in this Third World village. And, my internet service here in Mexico is faster than in McAllen.