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  1. #1
    May 2010
    375 times

    More thoughts

    I have received PM's on my belief that the treasure is where I live.

    Of course, I realize it is possible the treasure is not here at all. I was the first to debunk my theories. If we find another place in Mexico where the locals believe the treasure is also located, my theory blinks out like a candle in a hurricane.

    And, it is known that Moctezuma had houses and ties to many communities all over the Central Highlands.

    And, yes, it is very much circumstantial evidence. The sort of circumstantial evidence which has put hundreds of innocent men on Death Row.

    One difference is I am not an ambitious lying Prosecutor who is willing to send an innocent man to Death Row to advance his own career. And willing to convict in spite of clear cut inconsistencies.

    Except that I am a very curious person (and there are two ways to parse that sentence, heh, heh) and wanted to know.

    But, most importantly, there is no way to get so much as a cent of that treasure. Better chances to die on the spot.

    So, anyone who would work hard to find where I live and to come here, risking various horrid things, with zero chances of anything from it but grief and despair, is really misguided. Better to look in New Mexico or Utah or Arizona where no treasure has ever been found but hope can run unrestrained.

    Interestingly, I was recently asked to participate in a local project which intended to increase tourist traffic to this area. My recruitment was based on knowledge of local history and ability to communicate in English. Though I don't feel I know much, I do probably know more than most locals do.

    There will be no pay involved, because by Federal law I cannot accept money nor gifts for any work I do.

    What could I possibly say or do to increase tourist traffic here?

    If you do figure out where I live, look up the new tourist page. I cannot stop you from coming. Though I cannot imagine why you would want to. And, would prefer you didn't.

    To avoid serious problems, do not bring a metal detector. Not that it is specifically illegal. But, in a small mountain village one wishes to avoid attracting unwanted negative attention. I simply can't imagine anyone allowing you to use one on their property. And, the government certainly won't allow it on any land in the archaeological zone or ejido land.

    And, don't go wandering around when you don't know which land belongs to whom.

    In this region any two upright objects along a walk way or road indicates private property, no trespassing. Even on a small mountain trail if you encounter two sticks stuck up alongside the trail that is a No Trespassing symbol.

    On major streets, two large concrete posts alongside the street indicates you are entering private property where it is prohibited to go without permission. In my street, all persons who live east of my property and their valid visitors have specific permission to pass. That does not include random tourists.

    It is a different legal system. And, you need not put up NO TRESPASSING signs every so many feet as you did in my home state. As it is in Texas, if it isn't your property, you are probably guilty of a crime for being there.

    My best friend is a retired law enforcement official. His wife once told me the cops, as many of them as are here, and all carrying M-16's, are afraid of the farmers. If a cop with an M-16 and with a team of other cops is scared of the farmers, you should be as well.

    And, one PM pointed out that so should rich kids from UK.
    lastleg likes this.

  2. #2

    Dec 2012
    MXT-PRO Sandshark
    11716 times
    Metal Detecting
    ok, don't look for me
    lastleg likes this.
    if you’re lost and alone, or you’re sinking like a stone/ carry on (fun)

  3. #3
    May 2010
    375 times
    The Michael Brown fiasco, nor the Trayvon incident would not happen here with cops.

    In the USA we send out cops alone in cars, with guns. A big brute can over power a cop alone.

    In Mexico, they normally send out a 'patrol'. A patrol is a large, very powerful pickup with a metal assembly on the back, which lets several police officers stand there, braced, and M-16's locked and loaded. They at times drive long distances that way.

    The Humans Rights Agency here is very powerful. If a cop shoots a 7 year old girl during a raid, you can be sure he will do hard time.

    And, ditto for a cop alone who shoots to death a strong person. So, they do not go out alone. They have the physical power in a group to deal with strong brutes.

    Yet, if 100 farmers, with shotguns and .22 rifles and clubs burst angrily into town, as happened here a couple years ago, the cops have to huddle in their station. It just is not acceptable to mow down a large number of citizens, even in a major uprising like we had.

    They called and in maybe 45 minutes, two large two rotor gun ships from the state capitol, with 50 caliber machine guns aimed out the sides, ala Viet nam, circled over head, and the farmers went home.

    The Human Rights Agency ruled the cops had been in the wrong, and the only farmers arrested were a couple who actually hit cops.

    Always, when searching in Mexico, don't just obey the laws you know. Look for what might be unknown laws, such as I have written here.
    lastleg likes this.

  4. #4

    Dec 2012
    MXT-PRO Sandshark
    11716 times
    Metal Detecting
    well I thought you said not to come there?
    lastleg likes this.

  5. #5
    May 2010
    375 times
    I am busy right now, so I am not going back to parse what I said. I thought I said if you want to come here find the tourist page and make your plans. Do not come here exepecting to explore on ejido or private property, and don't bring a metal detector. And, yes, I don't recommend coming here since this is really not that hot a tourist place. Teotihuacan it is not. It is a small village with history at every point but nothing magnificent or fantastic to be seen.

    There are places to eat, ordinary food, and one-star hotel rooms. But, no real tourist facilities. If you want to come it is not my business, until you step on private property which my street is. And, don't come banging on my door. My wife resents intrusion of that sort.

    Especially if you have never been a small Mexican village, that alone might justify the trip here.

    A small mountain village is also not a place to find female attention. Trust me on this. This village is on the order of Peyton Place on steroids, and 'good girls' really mind their p's and q's. The president ran off the other kind of girls.

    And, most definitely do not trespass on my private street. The big posts are your final warning if you aren't part of a tour group and we have none yet.

    if you do explore, hire a guide or taxi driver to take you. or, if they ever offer group tours, that would be okay, of course, just as in any tourist place.

    The town wants tourist money, of course, which is why they asked me to help them on areas of my own knowledge.

  6. #6
    May 2010
    375 times
    Someone suggested I look at the evidence in the negative for the treasure being here. Part of concluding it is here involved finding as many negatives as I could, and gradually over many years, eliminating them TO MY OWN SATISFACTION.

    I decided to list them here at this time. Any one of the negatives could kill my theory if my view is false.

    First, T-net is filled with beliefs that they know where a treasure is, if only... So, no matter how convincing I am, this is just another person's own ideas and to risk your life or freedom on my beliefs is somewhat irrational. I am not even willing to do it, and it's my own theory.

    Our LDS friend believes as I do that he is close to an unbelievable treasure. He also is aware of the real obstacles to ever actually finding it. This is a normal part of the mentality of those who seek treasures. Even if we can do nothing, we dream and study on.

    Now, on to my list of negatives. First, Cortes was a narcissistic man. Of course, he imagined there was an incredible treasure. He also was not above killing people or lying to have his way in life. There is even a strong implication in the history that he forcibly impregnated the daughter of the Emperor Moctezuma II.

    Was there really 700,000 pesos of treasure in the house Moctezuma had them stay in? Or, did he embellish it to justify his actions to the King of Spain?

    Bernal Dias, believed to be no more than a pen name of Cortes, reported that the treasure which Cortes reported fell in the lake and was lost during the Noche Triste, was actually retrieved by the Aztecs. Was that an exaggeration or outright lie? His personality did not preclude a lie.

    The Tenochas had land and houses all over the place. Could they have distributed it in various places? Certainly. I don't think that was the case but last time I checked I am a mortal man.

    Is it indeed possible the babblings of a drunken Indian hundreds of years ago, and used as the basis for looking a couple months north, be true? Again, anything is possible no matter how much I think it is hokum.

    Might the alleged digging which lasted a week, here, have been to bury the Emperor himself? And, the locals imagined (in the same sense I did) that they were burying a treasure?

    The scenario as reported by my wife's grandfather would be equally correct for a human burial of an Emperor as well as for a large treasure. Put him in a stone vault, with another body on top. That is in fact how they buried important people in those days.

    I am convinced the family knows the treasure is there. But, at the same time, suppose what they actually know is the Emperor, their ancestor, is buried there instead. Their conduct would be exactly the same. They would not want him dug up and re-buried.

    That would agree with the grandpa allowing people to dig around his trees, and saying they aren't going to find a treasure there. In this scenario, he well knew there was no treasure anywhere here. Just his ancestor's bones.

    Now, the biggest single reason to believe the treasure isn't there. It's spelled FOUR HUNDRED AND NINETY FOUR YEARS. From 1521 to 2015 is a very long time by any measure.

    Even if the caciques lived out their life spans, that would be 25 generations or more. And, sometimes they did not last long. So, an uncountable number of powerful, and probably greedy, men ruled this land with an iron fist over those 494 years.

    Is it possible that many men would know there was an incredible treasure there, and not even one of them vow to take just a wee bit for his financial problems of the moment? Just a wee bit, you understand. Just once.

    So, did you ever eat just one peanut?

    So, am I probably a nutcase for believing in spite of all the negatives, that the treasure is still intact a hundred yards from my house? Sure, but still I do. That is how dreamers and treasure seekers think.

    But, I am not betting my life nor my future on my belief. If you find me and want to come, do so. But, don't come knocking on my door unannounced. I live here for a quiet and peaceful life among my friends and loved ones.

  7. #7
    May 2010
    375 times
    Just for the record, today I think it's there. Tomorrow, who knows?

  8. #8

    Dec 2012
    on the rocks - so cal county line
    Gold bug pro / Whites coin master II
    478 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Ok .. how many relics have been found in your town related to this great treasure ?
    Now that the dirty work is done all's that is left is the digging

  9. #9
    May 2010
    375 times
    As I have said in the past, in 1910 or thereabouts, they discovered in the exact location I suspect, a skeleton with a large piece of gold around the neck. It (the piece of gold, not the skeleton ) was donated by my wife's great-grandmother, a member of the Moctezuma family, to the local church to put up a new church bell. I have a 1908 photo which shows the church tower under repair.

    There would be no reason for other relics related to the treasure. The entire region was well known to be property of the Moctezumas. There are many relics, but a treasure buried in secret would not involve other relics.

    This gold neck piece is one of the strongest bits of evidence. I have found no other place anywhere that a specific piece of gold has been located at a proposed site of the treasure. In fact, in other places, such as Arizona; New Mexico; Utah, Tamaulipas; there is no specific location stated. Just in an arroyo by a peak of such and such shape.

    A reminder that I have repeatedly admitted this place might only be the burial place of Moctezuma II, though others claim to know where the body was buried in other places.

  10. #10

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    9033 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    piegrande, Mexico is FILLED with treasure lore and superstitions. Everyone is utterly convinced there's a treasure in every cave or ruin. And they have it on good authority from "someone who heard that someone who told someone who saw that someone who " .... etc.... Or they saw sparkles coming from the hill, or smoke that came from a hole, or had a vision or dream, blah blah. And every time, it's "iron clad bullet proof true".

    No amount of logical pointing out the telephone game or alternate explanations will work. They remain convinced. If they dig 5 ft. and there's no treasure, it *never* means the treasure isn't most certainly there. It will simply mean it must be 10 ft. And if they dig 10 ft. and it's not there, that simply means it must be 15 ft. And so forth and so on.

    I too fell for the wonderful stories, that all sounded so impressive and certain. Ran around the Sierra Madres & Chihuahua region for several weeks, with my host, chasing all such stories. But the more I probed deeply into the stories (which initially were so convincing and certain): The more they began to fall apart.

    Eg.: the person who "saw the coins", well, turns out, they didn't actually "see the coins". Turns out they know the person who saw them. So you FINALY track down that person, and .... guess what ? They too didn't actually "see the coins". But they got it on good authority from the mother in law of the worker who talked to the guy who found them. So you track that person down, and guess what ? Turns out it was a story they heard from their brother, who got it on good authority from a fellow who told them while they were all drinking around the campfire 10 yrs. earlier.

    Yet, as APPARENT as this is, that it's nothing but embellished nonsense ghost-stories gone awry, yet at EACH step, the persons who pass on the story, are still telling it at if it's first hand iron-clad true. So when the last person gets it (me here in central CA), it sounds SO good. And how could ANYONE doubt this ?

    But once I was down there applying a bit of skepticism and common sense, they all un-ravelled.

    Sorry to be a kill-joy, but yours sound along the same line. But just like what happened when I went to express doubt to the various Mexican locals, they summarily dismiss any doubt. It only makes them all the more resolved to believe in it. And no amount of showing them that there is no treasure in a cave (detector gives no signal) convinces them. That simply means that A) the detector doesn't go deep enough, or B) the spirits came and moved the treasure around during the night.
    lastleg likes this.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  11. #11
    Feb 2011
    Lakeland, Florida
    695 times
    Not about the treasure, but the tourists bit. So they want the OP to try and come up with ways to increase tourism, yet from his own words this is pretty much no mans land. Well unless the town as a whole wants tourists flocking to the area, and change their private bit, then why the heck would anyone want to go there?

    If there's nothing there to attract tourists, as per again the OP's words, why would the group think folks would want to come there?
    lastleg and H-2 CHARLIE like this.
    The Scarecrow sees all and tells none.

  12. #12
    May 2010
    375 times
    There are antiquities here, too many even for the government to register so registration has stopped. There are things to see, and we do have international tourists at times. But, nothing like Teotihuacan or one of the major locations.

    I do not ever urge anyone to come here, at least I hope I didn't. Though if you do it will help the local economy which is good.

    There is an ancient fort, pre conquistador. There are mounds. There are ancient quick lime ovens. There are ancient fossils. You have the correct question, why come here when there are so many other places of more importance. I cannot answer that. People do, but I do not foresee great numbers.

  13. #13
    May 2010
    375 times
    I am not an expert on tourism, but I theorize that people who might come here are those who have traveled to many places, and are looking for something less touristy and more tranquil. Plus of course what I call local tourism, people who live within the range of a day trip.

    One of my English students works in a pharmacy downtown. She asked me for a paper which lists in English the various medical issues a person might have, then beside it the same thing in Spanish. In the past, she would ask them to write their problem and she used Google translate to find out what it is. So, there are American tourists who do come here. I do not know why. That might well be the first step for starting a local tourism program. Find out who wants to come here in the first place, then aim advertising to that group of people.

  14. #14
    May 2010
    375 times
    @Tom, that was exactly my attitude for over 30 years. You nailed it very well. With more research, I changed my opinion.

    You believe what you wish, I really don't care. And, I will believe what I want to believe. Ditto for everyone who has read my writings.

    The one thing which makes this one different is the finding of the skeleton with the gold neck piece around 100 years ago. That was the word of a man who was three times the local president, my wife's grandfather. Not some vague superstitious person who drinks too much. And, it was supported by the 1908 photo showing the church tower under repair.

    The reason that gold piece is unique is it has been pointed out many times on TN that most places reputed to have large amounts of treasure have never produced one microscopic piece of gold or silver.

    Not that it matters, but I do wonder if you have read all I have written. Or read a couple postings and went into pooh-pooh mode?
    Last edited by piegrande; Feb 19, 2016 at 05:06 PM.

  15. #15
    May 2010
    375 times
    Let me also add that I am the one person with a strong conviction the treasure is actually here. Locals view it as an ancient legend of interest, maybe true; maybe not. I am the one who did the research and concluded it is not a legend but an oral tradition. so, it cannot be said I am being led astray by local enthusiasts. As you were.


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