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Thread: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

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  1. #1

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    616
    7 times

    Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    If we're to believe Bernal Diaz,

    1] The Aztec arrived in great numbers from somewhere in the north within a century before the arrival of Cortez,
    2] The Aztec had far more gold and of a better 'quality' than the other tribes along the route the Spaniards took to the Valley of Mexico.

    The cultures to the south had been around for a long while and had large quantities of gold, which likely came from areas they occupied or they'd traded for it from outside areas for centuries.

    The Aztec, on the other hand, had either come from, or traveled through [possibly huge] areas historically inhabited by cultures where gold, copper and silver is deposited in great quantities and where the occupants placed no particular value on those minerals and left no evidence of having mined or refined them. If the ancestors of the Aztec originated in those areas and lived in them long enough generations to have developed a complex, sophisticated society they'd almost certainly have discovered where the mineral deposits were [even if they weren't much interested in them until they'd moved south].

    Alternatively, [if their origins were further north or elsewhere] they might have established firm relationships with the area residents who did know where the mineral deposits were located. For that matter, they might have absorbed such groups as the Anasazi, Mimbres, Mogollon, Hohokam during their migration and persuaded them to join their trek to a new homeland.

    In any case, because the Aztec came from the north, while the eyes of the surrounding tribes in Mexico when they arrived had previously been clearly focused on the advanced cultures to the south, they might have been in the unique position of knowing locations of minerals to the north unknown to the Toltec and other nearby tribes.

    The coincident of the vanishing southwestern cultures during the same period as the arrival of the Aztec in Mexico, the bloody civil war fought among them 1100-1150ce seems to me to offer a compelling suggestion of a connection between the two events. This, despite the fact those cultures left no evidence of having cared about gold and other metals and the pottery and other artifacts of the southwestern cultures bears little similarity to that of the Aztec.

    I believe that whatever region the Aztec might have originated in, a strong case might be made they acquired their gold and silver in the Sierra Madre and northward after having learned the skills for refining it and developed a liking for the beauty of it for ornaments as well as for other uses.

    Those are the fundamental premises of this thread. My hope is to maintain a relatively narrow focus in the discussion and share ideas, evidence and other information concerning possibly pre-Columbian mining and refining sites located in the southwestern US and northern Mexico.

    cmaracing likes this.

  2. #2
    Charter Member
    us
    Apr 2007
    God's lap
    X-terra 70 ACE 250
    11,353
    13 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    I shall be lazy with you kind sir!

  3. #3
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,673
    1442 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    Allo High: out of curiosity have you considered placer mining, not hard rock mining? I will bet 10 -1 on placers since there were tremendously rich ones in Mexico in the past.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  4. #4
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,673
    1442 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    OHO: Some things come to mind regarding relatively ancient cultures, for starters ---->

    A) As I understand it, corn originated in south America. It was a small cob with only perhaps 4 -5 kernels on it, yet, somehow, somewere, it was evolved into the corn as the Aztecs etc. utilized it, similar to our present corn, and had migrated to North America..

    Who, where, and how, did this happen? This can be a solid clue as to intercourse and time factors etc among the early Americans.

    B) The smelting of gold, while basically a simple process, still involves a bit of unusual metalurgy and extremely high temperatures. This can be another possible path to follow. How advanced were the mound builders?

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    p.s. ORO, I love mountain grown blue Corn tortillas.



    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  5. #5
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,673
    1442 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    HI mi buddy ORO: Is there any evidence of deliberate cross breeding in those days? In plants of ocurse heheheh

    Don Jose de La mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  6. #6

    Aug 2004
    1,341
    10 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    Dear Real De Tayopa;
    You fielded an intersting question, which leads me to reply in kind:

    As I understand it, corn originated in south America. It was a small cob with only perhaps 4 -5 kernels on it, yet, somehow, somewere, it was evolved into the corn as the Aztecs etc. utilized it, similar to our present corn, and had migrated to North America..

    Who, where, and how, did this happen? This can be a solid clue as to intercourse and time factors etc among the early Americans.


    In order to arrive at the most likely answer, one needs to look skyward,my friend. Corn is a seed. Birds eat seeds. Birds also fly long distances. Birds also deficate (especially on freshly washed cars). The migration of corn seeds from South to North America most likely spanned thousands, if not tens of thousands of, years, and most likely occurred in the digestive tracts of birds and other small animals.

    To assume that the migration of corn seeds over thousands of miles was the result of human intervention is far fetched when there exists a much simpler explanation, although not nearly as fascinating, I'll admit.
    Your friend;
    LAMAR

  7. #7

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,606
    779 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    Lamar,

    Interesting theory, and possible for other food plants, but not corn. Corn does not grow wild and needs human cultivation to survive.

    "Corn in a sense appears to belong conceptually with people rather than with other plants -- in the realm of culture rather than nature -- or, perhaps more accurately, it occupies a position intermediary between the two. One reason corn is so closely allied with the cultural may be that it has no obvious wild counterpart; in most parts of the Americas where it was and is grown there are no naturally occurring plants remotely similar in appearance. Being an exotic in most areas, it also cannot survive without human care, unlike some other crops that go feral or interbreed with wild relatives. And finally, the image of the corn plant itself is very like a human being: growing tall as a person with hair wafting in the wind and arms moving, whispering in the breeze."

    "Corn and Culture in the Prehistoric New World." Sissel Johannessen.

    __________________________________________________ __________

    "Modern maize has no equal among other cultivated species, or for that matter, in the wild as an efficient producer of grain. The kernels on an ear of maize cling tightly to the rigid cob, the creation of centuries of selective breeding. If the ear were to drop to the ground, so many competing seedlings would emerge that in all likelihood, few would grow to maturity."

    "Maize in the Third World" Authors: Christopher R. Dowswell, R. L. Paliwal and P. Cantrell .


    Jose,

    "As I understand it, corn originated in south America. It was a small cob with only perhaps 4 -5 kernels on it, yet, somehow, somewere, it was evolved into the corn as the Aztecs etc. utilized it, similar to our present corn, and had migrated to North America..

    Who, where, and how, did this happen? This can be a solid clue as to intercourse and time factors etc among the early Americans."

    I believe the first cultivated maize came from the Pre-Olmec Culture. It was passed in trade to the Pueblos.

    Take care,

    Joe

  8. #8
    us
    May 2007
    Western Colorado
    5,871
    40 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    I have found that there are several types of maize here in this part of the country.
    There is a multicolored that is on a small tight cob
    A blue and white that tends to come from the navaho and associated area,
    and a red variety that is very isolated . I know it was here and was not inundated with other colors.

    It was not the 5 or 6 kernals on a cob stuff
    this was long a long cob with a prolifera of kernals.

    These folks knew how to grow the stuff.

    Here is a photo that illustrates my point.
    I had to use the whole zoom on the camera to get this one.
    I have no idea when this cob was dropped,
    but the crack is about 30 feet deep and as you can see tight at each end.
    so tight in fact the mice haven't gotten to it.

    Thom
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    "Everybody dies"
    "But not everybody lives."

  9. #9

    Aug 2004
    1,341
    10 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    Dear cactusjumper;
    I tend to disagree with your statement;
    "Interesting theory, and possible for other food plants, but not corn. Corn does not grow wild and needs human cultivation to survive."

    If corn never grew wild, then where in the world did it come from This is akin to the chicken and the egg argument. Perhaps the cultivated corn which we are now familiar with cannot grow in the wild, however the original corn species were indeed wild ones. If corn were not originally wild, then how could it have originated, my friend? And please, lets' not get into discussions about genetic engineering during pre-Columbian times.
    Your friend;
    LAMAR

  10. #10

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,606
    779 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    Lamar,

    "To assume that the migration of corn seeds over thousands of miles was the result of human intervention is far fetched when there exists a much simpler explanation, although not nearly as fascinating, I'll admit."

    Sorry, I thought you were talking about how corn made it's way into the Southwest. I will assume you know more about corn than the folks I quoted. My mistake.

    Take care,

    Joe

  11. #11
    ca
    May 2007
    1,608
    329 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    Not gold or corn,but puzzles are made from many parts.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,373702,00.html
    Regards:SH
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  12. #12

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,606
    779 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    bb,

    You have mentioned that you believe your "site 4" is Chicomoztoc. Can you explain what you believe Chicomoztoc is? How many caves make up Chicomoztoc? I know a little about it, but you seem to have studied the legend to a high enough degree, to be able to recognize the site when you see it. Even scholars disagree on whether it's a legend or reality.

    As you know, I am an avid fan of the history of Mexico and the Southwest. I learn something new every day. This has nothing to do with what you have or have not found, but what you think you have found.

    Thanks in advance for any answers you can or wish to provide.

    Joe Ribaudo

  13. #13

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,606
    779 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    It may be that bb is not inclined to answer any questions, so if someone else want to jump in here, please feel free to do so.

    Joe Ribaudo

  14. #14
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,538
    1282 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    HOLA amigos,

    I thought that the archies had reported finding the original "wild" corn a few years ago? There was an article in a science mag a few years ago, can't recall who wrote it but am pretty sure they claimed corn had been developed from Teosinte (spelled? corrections welcomed). I will have to see if I can find that article.
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  15. #15

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,606
    779 times

    Re: Aztec Gold - how and where they might have acquired it

    Roy,

    You are correct in the spelling, but incorrect in the conclusion.

    There was some speculation that domesticated corn was derived from teosinte, but that has been proven to be false. There are four species of teosinte and all are distinctly different than Zia, from which maize is the domesticated version.

    For a complete history of cultivated corn in the New World, I would reccommend you try to find a copy of:

    "Corn and Culture in the Prehistoric New World"

    I can't imagine it will be found in your average library. At a guess, your best bet would be a university.

    Take care,

    Joe

 

 
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