PI vs CTX3030 -- amazing test results

[DnD]

Having a PI machine has often left me feeling like there is no object that I can't find. After all, there is no tuning, ground balancing, adjusting for mineralization, or salt...just the raw metal detecting power of something similar to the car world's late 60's big block V8. Once you mount the control box on your waist, you can even swing the coil fast and often the perceived extra power compensates for poor swing technique or even just being able to have the coil near (not over) a target. Perhaps the only downfall of this big-block PI is the lack of discrimination for the nearby, trashy beaches.

So yesterday, I had an amazing experience on a nearby Florida beach when I joined Joe, a fellow MD'r, to hunt and compare my PI (Sea Hunter II with 10x14 coil) to his new CTX3030. Joe was still learning the machine so in an effort to just "get-on-with-hunting" he discriminated out iron and set the unit to the factory beach mode setting. At the edge of the surf, we began hunting.

I was impressed how close we could hunt without having interference with each others machines. Even more impressive was how fast we could swing and pace along. But this was only the beginning of the show the CTX was about to put on. As I stopped over-and-over to dig the remains of sparklers (fireworks) and iron debris, the CTX kept on trucking. Several times we took turns following the same path and learned there wasn't a DEEP target found by the PI that the CTX couldn't find. I thought there would have to be some hang-up and sure enough, Joe stopped and dug a big chuck of iron. Skeptically I thought Ah-ha!!! But before I could make a cheap jab at the CTX's disc ability, he broke off a small dime from underneath the aged mass of rusty sand and iron. Unbelievable!

We had walked about a half mile and decided it was time to head back. We were debating about some of the areas we had or hadn't covered, but once again, the CTX was ready to show off with its little GPS feature that had tracked the path we traveled. Now in all fairness, we couldn't figure out how to orient the screen, e.g., north, south, east, west. But, we made it work enough to figure which areas we missed.

On the route back to our cars, I got caught in an area riddled with pull tabs and big fishing hooks, the ones that wouldn't make a double-beep like bobby pins. I was about to dig my twenty-something piece of trash and I looked over and saw Joe about 25 yards ahead of me on his hands and knees really scavenging through a spoils pile. I was ready for a break, so I walked over to see what was going on. A few seconds later, Joe's hand brushed the sand away from a marble size golden charm. Bam!

At the end of the hunt, my arm was fatigued from digging so many holes and the rest of my body was "feeling it" from trying to keep pace with the CTX. Right then and there I felt there was no debate strong enough to disprove the amazing performance of the CTX. Now, my only thought is how do I work a deal to trade all my machines for just (1) CTX?

-David

 

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[DewGuru]

Now take it off land, and into the surf. Better keep 1 of those machines.

 

[Terry Soloman]

How can you compare apples to oranges? Unless I am in a farm field, way back in the woods, or out looking for gold in the desert I won't be using pulse induction. Pulse induction shines for depth and IN saltwater, not for general purpose like the multi-freq machines.

 

[Fletch88]

I would just keep the BIG Block! Lol and a jug of Advil for the sore arms!

 

[DnD]

Glad you asked Terry. The initial point of the review was to share how the CTX was finding deep targets that often I only find when using the PI. Everything else, i.e., the style of hunting, level of user proficiency, and features, were just added to the overall experience.

Dew, touche' ... I can't speak on that part of the CTX, but I do know there are no issues with submersing my PI.

Besides if Honda's can race Mustangs, why not compare apples to oranges?

B/R,

-David

 

[bigscoop]

Glad you asked Terry. The initial point of the review was to share how the CTX was finding deep targets that often I only find when using the PI. Everything else, i.e., the style of hunting, level of user proficiency, and features, were just added to the overall experience.

Dew, touche' ... I can't speak on that part of the CTX, but I do know there are no issues with submersing my PI.

Besides if Honda's can race Mustangs, why not compare apples to oranges?

B/R,

-David

It's interesting, but my area beaches see a lot of different machines and a lot of experienced hunters, and "they all find targets hunting behind other machines and other hunters." I can tell you that there are days when my machine is really dialed in and hunting deep, and then there are other days when it seems a tad bit lacking in performance. I've noticed this same thing with nearly every machine I've ever used. I've hunted behind 3030's and done quite well, they've hunted behind me with much the same results. Just the way it seems to be sometimes. Sure, no doubt the 3030 is an excellent machine but it's reliability/dependability still remains at issue.

 

[MexGT]

The 3030 is a great machine, I'll never regret the day I decided to get one.

 

[Jackalope]

DnD - was the CTX3030 hunting in the surf? Or was this just in the wet sand? I'm curious because I've never found any report from anyone using the CTX in the saltwater. Wonder how it would do compared to VLF and PI.

 

[Fletch88]

DnD - was the CTX3030 hunting in the surf? Or was this just in the wet sand? I'm curious because I've never found any report from anyone using the CTX in the saltwater. Wonder how it would do compared to VLF and PI.

Actually the CTX is a VLF detector. It's awesome in the water, but I don't take it in rough surf, heck I don't take me in rough surf too often. There are several members that post awesome CTX finds almost weekly from surf hunting.

 

[DnD]

When we compared my PI to his CTX, it was at the edge of surf during low tide. The majority of the search was in the saturated wet sand, although there were plenty of times the surf still sneaks up and crashes into you 6-12" deep or submerges your unit if you set it down to dig through the spoils pile. We're on the Atlantic side with the brackish dark water, rip currents, and big waves. So to be honest, hunting in those conditions takes a lot of work and safety prep -- pry a reason why the experienced guys that hunt neck-deep are more likely to have a better pay day.

Another consideration is the amount of moisture in the air (and occasional splash from waves) and what it can do to a MD's internal components over time. There is a constant mist in the air, that would make you have to rub the salty-water off the screen to read the VDI. SO at least the CTX design should protect its components from such exposures. Meanwhile the dive-ready PI is, well, made to play in a bathtub....no worries.

-David

 

[CASPER-2]

I don't think the sea hunter is as good a PI as the PI Pro or dual field for depth
have hit many a beach that were worked by sea hunter users and found lot of deep gold they missed
and I would never use my PI on dry sand with all the junk unless I lived near by - then would take every piece out
PI shines in salt water

 

[OBN]

Was not going to post because it sounds like you had a good time and experience, but Casper is correct. I know the CZ 20/21 and the Excalibur in PP can match most PI's in the wetsand and very shallow surf, but the PI's rule once you start getting out in the water.

 

[bigscoop]

There's just a practical limit to things in the deeper saltwater. Take whatever quality "Beach & Water" machine you use VLF/PI and learn to get the most out of it. The rest is just the splitting of hairs that "might" allow a very experienced hunter a very small window of advantage, depending on the circumstances. The very best hunters I know all have two things in common, they put in the hours and they get their coils over gold more frequently then the competition. These same guys have consistently done well regardless of the various machines they've used over the years. This, above everything else, should be the real tell-tell to all these machine debates.

 

[Fletch88]

I've found the CTX to hit targets as deep as I want to dig with the stock 11" coil. It was a blustery day on the East Coast of FL, but did manage to land 2 silver rings, and 1 sliver earring and $3.71 in clad. I hunted with pitch hold and dug a dime at 18" in semi dry sand. The only indication I got was a change in the threshold pitch until I dug down 4-5 inches. I picked a nickel up at around 12" laying under a rusty bottle opener. I don't even want to think of the depth a 17" coil is capable of.

 

[Jim in MA]

I dont think Amazing test results , you are comparing 15 year old technology with state of the art.
a $ 600 detector to a $2400 detector.
you have taken the Seahunter out of its elements and put it where the CTX shines, try to put the CTX where the Seahunter
shines.... 50 feet deep in the ocean at a shipwreck where any tiny piece of metallic object is a treasure!!!
I see your test as the person with the CTX was luckier than the person with the Seahunter to put his coil over something good.

 

[MBbeachrat]

The CTX is the best in wet sand. It is not made to go into the surf. We have proved it can not handle the surf from past post.

 

[DnD]

Everyone is adding some great thoughts to the discussion...

Bigscoop is right, no matter what machine you buy, the operator needs to be in the right place and likely spend plenty of time to find the goods.

On a technical level, OBN had a great point about the potential for other detectors to achieve performance levels equal to a PI. For instance, a while back we used a 10" CZ21 and 8" SH2 to depth test a 14k ring in a soccer field and found both units were within 1" of each other. Later, we used the same ring laying horizontal with a 10" CZ21, 8" CZ7, and the 10x14 PI on the beach (same beach as the CTX) with max depth of 12", 9", and 21" respectively. The CZ's had to be tuned to that spot on the beach and then retuned or tweaked over and over to finally achieve those depths. Yet, most people I've seen walk on the beach with a detector, simply hit a few buttons or turn a few knobs and then swing for the next few hours. Are they going to achieve the peak performance in all areas of the beach? ...according to my CZ's manual, the answer is no. So could or would a novice achieve such performance equivalent to a PI? (Note: I've seen quite a bit of info, including that from Tom Dankowski, about the variances in factory calibration and tuning which could affect peak performance. Also, the salt & mineralization conditions affect performance too. So my results could be better or worse than other's with the same machine and/or in other locations.)

Anyhow, the premise of the original post is just an honest review of (2) machines that are the frequent topic of discussion, and specifically aimed at new hunters, in a worse-case scenario. The extra-ordinary amount of highly mineralized and salty sand beach of this area (reportedly up to 53% iron content by FL geological survey) are perhaps the achillies heal of many MF-VLF detectors. (Same beach used in the CZ tests) That is why I like the PI, and at the same time hate the PI's lack of discrimination. My CZ is great at discrimination, but lacks the depth and balance of the PI. So, I'm just an average guy, not endorsed by a company or offering to sell any metal-detector related product or service, and when I observed the CTX "turn-on-and-go" v. the PI, I thought some readers might find it interesting.

If schedules work out, we'll be meeting again in mid December and could record some video on any tests that ya'll can suggest. Keep in mind, I think the CTX water-tests have probably been well established, so lets hear your idea's on anything but that!

-David

 

[OBN]

Dnd, the main thing is you learned from your experience. That's why I always like meeting up with other hunters also and doing side by sides. It is one way of learning what your competition is and what you have to do to beat the others out. I know I'm chopping at the bits to get a CTX, and hope to run into MB next week so he can sell me on it.....MB I will be down next weds/thurs possibly Friday

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

How Deep?

Was not going to post because it sounds like you had a good time and experience, but Casper is correct. I know the CZ 20/21 and the Excalibur in PP can match most PI's in the wetsand and very shallow surf, but the PI's rule once you start getting out in the water.

Joe/All: At what depth do multi freq VLFs lose their advantage by loosing depth and the PIs rule?
Are we talking ankle deep, knee deep, waist deep, chin deep, submerged?

Except for changes in Salinity, which varies within the day, I would not expect this to be site specific, as the loss in depth
is caused by the return from water above the coil which the detector sees as noise. That is if I am correct about the above assumption. If not what other factors are responsible for this relative loss in depth.

Come to think of it, do VLF detectors loose depth in fresh water?
If so is the loss less than in salt water?

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

How Deep?

Oops: Must of stepped off into the abysis, either that or the coil cable on my VLF is faulty!

Was not going to post because it sounds like you had a good time and experience, but Casper is correct. I know the CZ 20/21 and the Excalibur in PP can match most PI's in the wetsand and very shallow surf, but the PI's rule once you start getting out in the water.