Under what conditions would you prefer one of the below detectors.

[Sir Gala Clad]

Say you are proficient in hunting all three zones of a salt water beach (Dry Sand, Wet Sand, Shallow Water) are unbiased in which zone to detect, and equally skilled in operating each
of the below detectors: CTX 3030, modified excalibur to support different head phones and search coils. a Sovereign GT.

When/where would one of the above detectors be the better choice, and with what size/type search coil and headphone for hunting your local beach (transportation is not a problem)?

Assuming that all are charged, properly maintained, and good to go!

 

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[ron lord]

I have own two of the three. I won't buy the CTX to many problem with it . I would use the Excal with an 8 inch coil and a Gray Ghost headset.This is what I would use of the three but not my proffered chose ,but that's me.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

I have own two of the three. I won't buy the CTX to many problem with it . I would use the Excal with an 8 inch coil and a Gray Ghost headset.This is what I would use of the three but not my proffered chose ,but that's me.

Of the three detectors, The Excalibur is my preferred choice for shallow water hunting.
The next time my Excalibur ll 1000 fails, it will be out of warranty. Planned modification (s) are a CTX 3030 water proof connector so that I can hunt with an Amphibian Grey Ghost Headphones on either the CTX or the Excalibur, water proof connector so I can change search coils. I definitely want to use the 8" DD coil as it is more sensitive to smaller gold targets and easier to use in first drop off/trashy areas. I would also install a remote pin point / discrimination switch so that I can change search modes easier.

Except for the improved discrimination of the CTX 3030, I would have most of it's advantages without it's limitations when shallow water hunting. Plus, I will increase my odds of retrieving a target in the water on my first scoop rather than digging till I drop or just give up when I can dig no longer.

 

[cdv1]

Having owned and used all three and presently own two of the three, I think I can give you a good idea what may happen... first off I owned the SOV GT, had additional coils with it and did quite well with it. While I still had it, I got the Excal II (10") and used it, liked the GT more when on the wet and dry sand and of course the Excal in the water. I then got the CTX, after a year of non use, the GT got sold along with the spare coils. The CTX has been my go to machine but I am not afraid to use one of the three Excal's I have on hand.... but....... even with the GT & CTX and the ability of changing coils, the only time I actually changed coils was when I had a coil failure (glad I had a spare with me that day).

The Excal modified to change coils and headphones is a great idea but sadly, other than some experimenting with the various coils, even if you had a selection of coils from 5-15", most likely you will not carry them all with you. You will settle on one that you prefer and use the most and that is the one that will stay on the machine the majority of the time. Not everyone is OBN!!!

Since you already have the Excal, modifying it as you stated would be the least expensive way to go then it would only take picking up spare coils and wiring them up to the connector you choose to use on the Excal. Just remember, everything you add to the Excal is another possible failure point and will require more maintenance...

FYI even with having the CTX and it being my money machine, I will further modify one or more of my existing Excal's once the end caps with coil connectors are ready. I think it is a great idea and the Excal is a great water machine.

Cliff

 

[bigscoop]

I think this all comes down to where you hunt and how you prefer to hunt. I'm swapping coils frequently and find that ability an absolute necessity to my constantly changing hunting environment. Given the three machines in question, and my personal experience with all three, I seriously doubt one is going to outperform the other in the hands of the same user. However, a fully modified Excal can reliably and safely handle it all well (even in deeper, turbulent water). Of the several hunters I know who have experience with all three machines nearly all have opted to settle on the modified Excal as their one source do-it-all beach and water machine.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

Having owned and used all three and presently own two of the three, I think I can give you a good idea what may happen... first off I owned the SOV GT, had additional coils with it and did quite well with it. While I still had it, I got the Excal II (10") and used it, liked the GT more when on the wet and dry sand and of course the Excal in the water. I then got the CTX, after a year of non use, the GT got sold along with the spare coils. The CTX has been my go to machine but I am not afraid to use one of the three Excal's I have on hand.... but....... even with the GT & CTX and the ability of changing coils, the only time I actually changed coils was when I had a coil failure (glad I had a spare with me that day).

The Excal modified to change coils and headphones is a great idea but sadly, other than some experimenting with the various coils, even if you had a selection of coils from 5-15", most likely you will not carry them all with you. You will settle on one that you prefer and use the most and that is the one that will stay on the machine the majority of the time. Not everyone is OBN!!!

Since you already have the Excal, modifying it as you stated would be the least expensive way to go then it would only take picking up spare coils and wiring them up to the connector you choose to use on the Excal. Just remember, everything you add to the Excal is another possible failure point and will require more maintenance...

FYI even with having the CTX and it being my money machine, I will further modify one or more of my existing Excal's once the end caps with coil connectors are ready. I think it is a great idea and the Excal is a great water machine.

Cliff

Great Stuff Cliff: What I want/need to do is to optimize each metal detector to take advantage of its unique capablilites so that I can grab it and use as is for that particular capability.

I am thinking of the Excalibur with 8 inch DD search coil for shallow water hunting.
I prefer the smaller coil as it is easier to work in current/rougher conditions and I can pin point more precisely.

The CTX 3030 with the Joey Coil to find small jewlery plus being able to search a greater area in a single hunt.
I am currently using the 6" DD coil on it now for trashy areas.

Not sure how to best take advantage of the Sovereign.
Most likely use the 15" WOT so I can cover twice the area in a given hunt.
I actually like this detector best, but have difficulty exploiting its capabilities as
it constantly rains where I hunt.

Other than that, I am like you and don't like to constantly change things around.
I go and use what I have on any hunt, and stay with it as long as it is effective.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

I think this all comes down to where you hunt and how you prefer to hunt. I'm swapping coils frequently and find that ability an absolute necessity to my constantly changing hunting environment. Given the three machines in question, and my personal experience with all three, I seriously doubt one is going to outperform the other in the hands of the same user. However, a fully modified Excal can reliably and safely handle it all well (even in deeper, turbulent water). Of the several hunters I know who have experience with all three machines nearly all have opted to settle on the modified Excal as their one source do-it-all beach and water machine.

I agree, that if you use each detector as a one source do-it-all beach and water machine, I would not expect one detector to outperform the the other detector in the hands of the same user. But that is not what I am trying to do.
I believe that if you use each detector differently, exploiting its unique capability, I beleive that you will get superior results.

 

[ron lord]

Well you keep your Mine labs. My prefferred detector is an ATX with a 10 x 12 coil and a Gray Ghost Amphibian headset. I can change both coil and headsets . It like very small Gold .It go very deep .

 

[Higgy]

I would like to see Minelab take the Excal out of the unwieldy tube and put it in an ergonomic and comfortable enclosure. The exposed buttons, and the round tube case is just a poor design - and this is MY opinion, mind you, just an opinion. Almost everyone with any amount of time on the Excalibur, opts for an Anderson shaft or some other mod, and my disclaimer here is just from what I've read here on Tnet.

The 3030 - from what I've read here - is heavy and has problems with iron. Its also disturbing to note that you can buy an AT Pro, a Sand Shark, and an F75 for the price of the 3030.

 

[cdv1]

Well you keep your Mine labs. My prefferred detector is an ATX with a 10 x 12 coil and a Gray Ghost Amphibian headset. I can change both coil and headsets . It like very small Gold .It go very deep .

Ron, the ATX wasn't in the OP as a selection, quite honestly the Excal, GT and the CTX can get the small gold too! I have an ATX, it does get gold but I can spend to much time digging and not enough time hunting with the machine. It does a good job but replacement coils are even more expensive than the CTX coils, it also has its share of common problems such as shaft sticking, shaft locks jamming with sand, coiled cable rub from the shaft tubes. It is however easier to move through the water and better balanced than the CTX even though it is heavier.

The CTX 3030 with the Joey Coil to find small jewlery plus being able to search a greater area in a single hunt.
I am currently using the 6" DD coil on it now for trashy areas.

IF you are talking about the new Coiltek coil for the CTX, beware, it is a floater, making the machine even harder to keep on the bottom in the water!

I think this all comes down to where you hunt and how you prefer to hunt. I'm swapping coils frequently and find that ability an absolute necessity to my constantly changing hunting environment. Given the three machines in question, and my personal experience with all three, I seriously doubt one is going to outperform the other in the hands of the same user. However, a fully modified Excal can reliably and safely handle it all well (even in deeper, turbulent water). Of the several hunters I know who have experience with all three machines nearly all have opted to settle on the modified Excal as their one source do-it-all beach and water machine.

So true BS, my thinking cap wasn't on, I can think of only one beach in my area where a change of coil would be necessary however if I was back up north or near other beaches I would have the need to change coils more often...

Cliff

 

[dewcon4414]

Its more of a pain to carry more than one detector. Sorry, but i am a HUGE fan of the battery pod on the Xcal ..... you never open a box with a poorly made gasket. Say what you want about those pods..... but they arent as awkward and heavy as a CZ. Ive used an Exp for many years...... the advantage for the CTX is being able to mod those tones and the fast response..... but the problems makes it still to pricy for the problems that salt water creates. IF... yes if i cant get in the water id grab my Sov with a larger coil and run the wet and dry sand over my Xcal. But if i can hunt the entire beach and water its just easier to use the Xcal. You arent missing that many targets that the Sov or CTX might find.... im willing to let you have a few pieces of gold just because i know im not going to get it all anyway.

If you mod you Xcal and get Joe to make you a pair of his updated Skullies with the end cap.... id take them over GGA any day. They are louder, clearer and the tones ARE more distinct. The GGA are a good comfortable fit and well made..... but they dont separate the tones as well as the yellows or Skullies. Id also recommend you open them up and do a little more silicone sealing on the inside. But since most of us are digging most anything that aint iron then maybe its not a big deal.

Dew

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

ATX for the win ... Hoping Fisher brings out mid level P.I. soon .

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

I would like to see Minelab take the Excal out of the unwieldy tube and put it in an ergonomic and comfortable enclosure. The exposed buttons, and the round tube case is just a poor design - and this is MY opinion, mind you, just an opinion. Almost everyone with any amount of time on the Excalibur, opts for an Anderson shaft or some other mod, and my disclaimer here is just from what I've read here on Tnet.

The 3030 - from what I've read here - is heavy and has problems with iron. Its also disturbing to note that you can buy an AT Pro, a Sand Shark, and an F75 for the price of the 3030.

Higgy: What a detector is designed to do and how it is used
often differ. The Excalibur was designed for diving not shallow water hunting. I’ts knobs are oversized so they can be turned wearing thick diving gloves. It comes with an S shaft to keep the search coil close to the control housing. Unless one gets in way over their head one does not need a depth rating of 200 feet.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
My deciscion to buy an Excalibur was more emotional than scientific.
I love the looks of the Pod design to the point of nicknaming my Excal with its striking lime green contrast against the dark blue pods: “The spiffy Iffy”.

I did not do an analysis on the Fischer CZ21 ( a less costly, more rugged, and a better choice if you hunt other than beaches) , as I thought (wrong) that it would have to much drag when submerged in the water.
.
However, I do agree with you, in that there are better designs as exposed cables are the weak point of the Pod Design.
What I really would of like to have seen was a ruggedized and hardened version of the Sovereign GT. For me there is nothing better than a simple knobs and switches interface for treasure hunting on the beach.

But that was not to be: The Sovereign is Dead (out of production). “Long live the Sovereign” – may the spare parts not dry up in my life time and may there be enough failed Sovereigns to canablilize for parts the next generation of treasure hunters. The Fisher CZ21 Now RULES (is in production), Long Live The CZ21.

I would say that the CTX 3030s balance makes up for it being on the heavy side. I am not aware of problems with iron, that’s where its advantage is. IT is good that all of the below detectors can be purchased for the price of the 3030. Even though I use the CTX 3030 less, and I have a lot to learn about it, it is my money machine.

 

[ron lord]

ATX for the win ... Hoping Fisher brings out mid level P.I. soon .

Fisher had a PI, when they got bought out they stop making it.

 

[bigscoop]

You know, one issue that is never discussed in regards to some of these new machine designs is the long term effect of having the coil cable inside the shaft, maybe not as desirable in the long run? When submerged these shafts are invaded by saltwater and if not disassembled when flushed with fresh water it is likely that salt will remain attached to the cable and possibly accelerate the deterioration of the cable. Only time will tell but I suspect this to be a possible issue in the future. This same thing is also likely over the long haul with parts that are designed to slide or pivot, sand and salt eventually creating issues in these areas. Just something else to consider before you sink big money into some of these sleek machine designs.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

You know, one issue that is never discussed in regards to some of these new machine designs is the long term effect of having the coil cable inside the shaft, maybe not as desirable in the long run? When submerged these shafts are invaded by saltwater and if not disassembled when flushed with fresh water it is likely that salt will remain attached to the cable and possibly accelerate the deterioration of the cable. Only time will tell but I suspect this to be a possible issue in the future. This same thing is also likely over the long haul with parts that are designed to slide or pivot, sand and salt eventually creating issues in these areas. Just something else to consider before you sink big money into some of these sleek machine designs.

I have the same doubts, except I believe that the problem is more immediate. I am already having problems with sliding parts sticking. Plus I frequently disconnect and reconnect the waterproof connectors to the headphones and coils to keep salt from building up around the treads. Likewise I imagine that the elastometers (seals) need to be relaxed after using to prevent them from being deformed/set.
Also, the wider diameter shafts have more resistance when the search coil is swept in the warder plus in the case of the 3030 the portion of the rod that is swept in the water is etched not smooth.
Unless, you change coils in the field, you may be better off with just one shaft as it forces you to disconnect and reconnect everything.
We still need to know more about the cables and what causes them to deteriorate.

 

[Higgy]

Higgy: What a detector is designed to do and how it is used
often differ. The Excalibur was designed for diving not shallow water hunting. I’ts knobs are oversized so they can be turned wearing thick diving gloves. It comes with an S shaft to keep the search coil close to the control housing. Unless one gets in way over their head one does not need a depth rating of 200 feet.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
My deciscion to buy an Excalibur was more emotional than scientific.
I love the looks of the Pod design to the point of nicknaming my Excal with its striking lime green contrast against the dark blue pods: “The spiffy Iffy”.

I did not do an analysis on the Fischer CZ21 ( a less costly, more rugged, and a better choice if you hunt other than beaches) , as I thought (wrong) that it would have to much drag when submerged in the water.
.
However, I do agree with you, in that there are better designs as exposed cables are the weak point of the Pod Design.
What I really would of like to have seen was a ruggedized and hardened version of the Sovereign GT. For me there is nothing better than a simple knobs and switches interface for treasure hunting on the beach.

But that was not to be: The Sovereign is Dead (out of production). “Long live the Sovereign” – may the spare parts not dry up in my life time and may there be enough failed Sovereigns to canablilize for parts the next generation of treasure hunters. The Fisher CZ21 Now RULES (is in production), Long Live The CZ21.

I would say that the CTX 3030s balance makes up for it being on the heavy side. I am not aware of problems with iron, that’s where its advantage is. IT is good that all of the below detectors can be purchased for the price of the 3030. Even though I use the CTX 3030 less, and I have a lot to learn about it, it is my money machine.

I agree with you about your comments on the 3030. From all of my research, its fine detector, but it just does not have the design functionality it should have. Is it me, or does anyone else in here think that a water detector, whether a wading detector, or a diving detector, should have a design that slices through the water easily, and not feel like you are waving a paddle? Anyway, I'm not a detector designer, because you probably have to have an engineering degree for anyone to listen to you.

That said, I will be going with a CZ21. A respectable member on Tnet has one, and his finds are beyond reproach. I'm getting a settlement in December, so its new dive gear and new detectors all the way. Gonna pay off my truck and take the wife to Aruba or somewhere there is some good loot in the sand!

 

[dewcon4414]

To many things i didnt like about the CZ for my hunting.... but repair wise, its top notch and i liked the guys at Fisher. They will at least send you some parts.... something ML wont do. The CZs shaft is more designed for dirt/shallow hunting..... it doesnt have a long swing something i didnt like. But a shorter shaft does make it lighter and allows you to move a bit faster in the water even with the Xcal. Locks are already one of the issues with the 3030.... the less moving parts you have the better for salt water hunting. Even on my Explorer i NEVER liked the cable inside and thats another reason i used the inline PPer. Stabilize the coil and use a one piece CF shafts if you dont intend to travel with it. That knob guard was a waste of money IMO. The knobs break more often from them being small and tight. When you came to the stop.... you just couldnt tell..... thus you keep cranking it. Larger knobs move easier and you can FEEL the end of the travel using just 2 fingers. I can even feel it click out of auto sensitivity..... where as the small knobs i had to take my headphones off to HEAR it click. Ive broken a lot of knobs.... replaced them and broke them again.... as well as a couple of the switches. Since going to the larger knobs a year ago.... ive had no issues.... and believe me ive got a lot of hours out there. I do recommend changing out the brass alan nuts for SS.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

I agree, that if you use each detector as a one source do-it-all beach and water machine, I would not expect one detector to outperform the the other detector in the hands of the same user. But that is not what I am trying to do.
I believe that if you use each detector differently, exploiting its unique capability, I beleive that you will get superior results.

Ron: Thank you for your input(s), as you know your detectors well and are very experienced with them. I have no doubt that the ATX is a top of the line metal detector, unfortunately it was not in production when I purchased my detectors. As the waters where I hunt are rougher and I am less experienced , I seriously doubt that the extra depth of the ATX would be of benefit to me.

I am sorry that this looks like an infomercial for Mine Lab – I certainly did not intend it to be, nor a debate about PI verses Multi Frequency detectors.

However, I would like to add that Garrett is one of the few US manufacturers (only one that I know) that has and continues to support changeable coils and headsets on their beach detectors : Sea Hunter Mark ll, Infinium LS, ATX and the all terrain AT Pro. Kinda makes one wonder why the other manufacters don’t or can’t provide this capability? Further the experience that I have had with Garrett in repair of their pinpointer has been great.

 

[dewcon4414]

Someone is going to mention the CTX for having changeable coils and headphones...... maybe a start for them. Doesnt make a lot of sense to have water machines without those features now days. I think it would generate more interest by after market coil and headphone makes as well.... thus improving our game. Apparently its no trick to do connector wise.

Dew