"Dig it All" or Discriminate - That is the Question!

[certman68]

To be or not to be, to "dig it all" or discriminate, that is the question (Apologies to Mr. Shakespeare).

I've seen conflicting approaches to beach and water hunting in this forum and others. Some choose to discriminate targets to avoid iron, bottle caps, etc and hopefully not gold and silver.

Others dig everything arguing that the beach is a relatively easy place to do so. Why risk missing a gold ring due to questionable discrimination after all.

Let me get to the point. I want to improve my recovery ratio which to me is the number of gold/silver finds vs. number of targets dug. I could improve my ratio in three ways.

One, by buying a Stealth or similar scoop and stick with the "dig it all program" = $400 (I currently use a Sand Shark)
Two, by buying a unit the discriminates (Excal 2, CZ 21), thereby saving time by theoretically not digging up junk and covering more ground= $1500
Three, by buying both the scoop and a unit that discriminates = $2000

The scoop seems to be a "no brainer". My question is whether discrimination is a worthwhile investment for Florida beaches from the waterline to snorkeling depth (just over 6 feet for my height).

I know this the classic PI vs. VLF question but I'd love to get more information from actual owners of both regarding why they prefer one type over another especially if you feel your ratio increased by using one type vs. the other. How do we know that discrimination is really working? I've seen posts indicating that discrimination is less reliable as target depth increases. I'm not sure if this is true or not due to my own ignorance and lack of experience.

Many thanks. I apologize in advance for the $%#& storm this may create.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Even with the Excal you still dig everything but iron, if you try to discriminate out the other junk you will be discriminating out10-14k gold... Not digging any iron is a big advantage...

I run discrimination at lowest point possible on my Excals and my Sovereign GT when beach hunting salt water....

 

[Terry Soloman]

8" Sand Shark is what you want. Mine has paid for itself over and over. I use rechargeable AA batteries and get plenty of juice for all day outings. Great depth and sensitivity for small gold, and set up perfectly for snorkel and scuba

 

[certman68]

Excellent point @Treasure_Hunter. I'm educating myself (this is all new to me). To paraphrase, eliminating iron is the advantage of a detector like the Excal 2 or CZ 21. If I'm in a place that has a lot of iron this is a huge advantage. In my case, I'm not. As discrimination increases we begin to eliminate things like foil, bobby pins and bottle caps, BUT because gold is similarly conductive to the metals these are made of we'd INCREASE the risk of eliminating signals from gold. Do I have this right?

 

[surfnturf]

Option 4: Good scoop (Stealth), Good detector (for saltwater) with discrimination set to 0, And dig anything that repeats or gives a good signal, over time
you learn what your detector is telling you!!

 

[certman68]

8" Sand Shark is what you want. Mine has paid for itself over and over. I use rechargeable AA batteries and get plenty of juice for all day outings. Great depth and sensitivity for small gold, and set up perfectly for snorkel and scuba

Nice to hear from you Terry. I've followed your posts across multiple forums and also watched your videos. Based on your experience with the unit and my budget I purchased a Sand Shark as my first detector for use in the H2O. It sounds like I have the right machine (which I love BTW). A scoop that allows me to recover items more easily / quickly may be my best investment vs. another detector. I'm working with a scoop that is about 6" wide. It sounds like "digging it all" is just the price of admission. Makes sense now that I understand that gold is similarly conductive to other "junk" metals.

This chart was very helpful for others interested.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Excellent point @Treasure_Hunter. I'm educating myself (this is all new to me). To paraphrase, eliminating iron is the advantage of a detector like the Excal 2 or CZ 21. If I'm in a place that has a lot of iron this is a huge advantage. In my case, I'm not. As discrimination increases we begin to eliminate things like foil, bobby pins and bottle caps, BUT because gold is similarly conductive to the metals these are made of we'd INCREASE the risk of eliminating signals from gold. Do I have this right?

10k-22k have base metals, when you increase your discrimination to discriminate out pull tabs, can slaw ect your discriminating out a lot of gold below 22-24k. Bobby pins are iron, I dig no iron so I dig no bobby pins.

So where you are hunting there are no fishing hooks, bobby pins, crabbing industry, no docks, no nails, no screws ect?

 

[CASPER-2]

I use cz21s and hunt in all metal - will click to "zero" ID mode to check some targets - but try and dig it all -
if I get a huge iron target of course I wont dig (usually) - except on land when relic hunting with it
and you will lose depth and targets if you crank your discrim.
you might be able to find a good used machine - one of my cz21s - I bought not because of need - but because I got it for $750 and it'd been used only like 3 times
no brainer - I own 3 of them - I let friends borrow one with me and always like to have a back up -plus my daily unit = 3
lot of guys bought the new garrets and minelabs might have used older good machines they'll part with
and you may be able to find a used scoop out there- guys are always up grading or buying whats new
you might be able to find welder near you that will make one for half price

 

[galenrog]

When learning your detector, digging everything with little or no discrimination is best. Not only will you learn the various sounds and meter reading of different targets, you will learn that many types of targets can and do read and sound alike. After a year or two, most people know their detector well enough to skip some signals. The same proves true when working an area with different mineralization than what you are accustomed to. I operate a GPX 5000 and dig everything, primarily because lead sounds exactly like gold to my diminished hearing.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

certman68, I think you are mixing questions. To start with, I am assuming this question is for the beach , not land (hence the forum you posted this one).

I (and a lot of others) are not a fan of digging iron. There is no harm in passing iron nails (bobby pins, etc...) and you will not miss gold. I suppose the argument *could* be made that some tinsel thin fine chains *might* either a) not sound off at all, or b) read down around iron. But for pete's sake, the cost of digging all the iron, on some beaches, simply isn't worth it.

I have seen MANY pulse users on our beaches, smug that they can effortlessly cut through minerals, and get super deep, and not miss earing studs, etc... But guess what ? When a beach becomes nail-riddled (like after beach erosion) they are "sent packing" to greener grounds. Doh! I've seen them leave red-hot conditions (where there are so many nails they resemble tooth-picks lying all over the top of the sand). And I'm talking about guys who, before that , swore up and down they could discern nails by the sound. Doh!

Yes there's pros & cons. Perhaps some beaches can't be hacked by other machine than a pulse (d/t the minerals). And perhaps some beaches aren't that much of a nail problem (touristy clean hawaii or something ?). But if you ever get into thick conditions, where depth and minerals AREN'T an issue, you can end up hating life if you show up with a pulse.

So I have no problem passing iron on the beach. And another plus to a TID machine, is that you can actually pass HIGH conductors, if conditions so-merit. I have been in target conditions so thick, that we actually start to pass all high conductors (pennies, dimes, quarters), in our quest to up our gold ring ratio. Why oh why oh why would someone want to end the day with 300+ coins (of which 250 will be pennies, dimes, etc....) and 1 ring, versus getting 5 gold rings, and 50 nickels ? I'd much prefer the gold anyday. And the sand will come back in with that night's tide, so you gotta strike while the iron's hot. Unfortunately, conditions that thick are rare. But ........ just sayin' .....

 

[certman68]

10k-22k have base metals, when you increase your discrimination to discriminate out pull tabs, can slaw ect your discriminating out a lot of gold below 22-24k. Bobby pins are iron, I dig no iron so I dig no bobby pins.

So where you are hunting there are no fishing hooks, bobby pins, crabbing industry, no docks, no nails, no screws ect?

Thank you for a better description of what items are made of iron. In the dry sand I typically dig a ton of this stuff, less in the water. Now I understand the value of filtering it out. I was thinking too narrowly about what items are made of iron.

Here are my "iron finds" from a recent dry sand day (surf was too rough to be effective in the water). 80% of what's pictured I would not have dug if I used a detector set to discriminate iron. As you can see there are plenty of tent stakes, bobby pins, used sparklers, hunks of iron, crab trap parts, etc. To answer my own question, if what is pictured are my typical conditions then I would benefit from being able to discriminate when needed.

Thanks for the guidance!

 

[OBN]

Nice to hear from you Terry. I've followed your posts across multiple forums and also watched your videos. Based on your experience with the unit and my budget I purchased a Sand Shark as my first detector for use in the H2O. It sounds like I have the right machine (which I love BTW). A scoop that allows me to recover items more easily / quickly may be my best investment vs. another detector. I'm working with a scoop that is about 6" wide. It sounds like "digging it all" is just the price of admission. Makes sense now that I understand that gold is similarly conductive to other "junk" metals.

This chart was very helpful for others interested.

You know I disagree with that chart.. these items maybe the most conductive from top to bottom but I swear the lower conductives on that chart hit in reverse harder. And that is with the Excalibur in all metal. Or maybe it is the items from the bottom to top are shaped different in real life and that makes them hit harder. I know those dag SS rings sure bang good, of course the gold rings are hardly ever that size so it would be hard to compare.


Based on the location I'm hunting I dig all in almetal with the Excalibur at my older sites because to deep the targets either null out or I get no signal. So I dig all until I am right up on the target then I'll check it in disc...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You know I disagree with that chart.. these items maybe the most conductive from top to bottom but I swear the lower conductives on that chart hit in reverse harder. And that is with the Excalibur in all metal. Or maybe it is the items from the bottom to top are shaped different in real life and that makes them hit harder. I know those dag SS rings sure bang good, of course the gold rings are hardly ever that size so it would be hard to compare.

View attachment 1198655
Based on the location I'm hunting I dig all in almetal with the Excalibur at my older sites because to deep the targets either null out or I get no signal. So I dig all until I am right up on the target then I'll check it in disc...

100% correct OBN, SS, lead, steel, plat all hit very hard on Excal..

 

[ARC]

Super clean... or sanded hard...
I break out the pulse...
Regular run...
Im running the X2.

 

[certman68]

So I have no problem passing iron on the beach. And another plus to a TID machine, is that you can actually pass HIGH conductors, if conditions so-merit. I have been in target conditions so thick, that we actually start to pass all high conductors (pennies, dimes, quarters), in our quest to up our gold ring ratio. Why oh why oh why would someone want to end the day with 300+ coins (of which 250 will be pennies, dimes, etc....) and 1 ring, versus getting 5 gold rings, and 50 nickels ? I'd much prefer the gold anyday. And the sand will come back in with that night's tide, so you gotta strike while the iron's hot. Unfortunately, conditions that thick are rare. But ........ just sayin' .....

This is helpful. Thank you. I really don't have an interest in digging up change either. I'm looking to increase my probability of recovering gold and silver targets in the water. Time spent digging trash or clad is time that I'd rather spend covering more ground assuming that my probability increases as more ground is explored. I appreciate your point that the chance of eliminating gold targets is very low if discrimination settings are set correctly.

 

[certman68]

Super clean... or sanded hard...
I break out the pulse...
Regular run...
Im running the X2.

Makes sense. I see now why many here have both types of detectors. Thank you.

 

[ARC]

But I assure you...

The man that invents the detector that finds only gold and silver...

Will be king...

and my idol that I will patronage at least 3 times a day by bowing down to a life sized effigy and kissing the sandy toes.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Tom your in Northern Calif, how often do you actually hunt in the water?... Here in the South in the water is where we prefer to hunt, if I wasn't going in the water I would use my CTX 3030.....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Th'r, no one in my part of the state "goes into the water". If, by that, you mean wading, etc.... Oh sure, we might go in and out of the ebbing surf, but not to the extent of actually some sort of snorkeling, wading, etc...

Reason is: it's next to impossible to do that on *most* of our beaches. You'd get bashed around, and unable to swing d/t the surge. We do *not* have "bathtub conditions" as some other beaches might have. On a few occasions, some beaches get calm enough that you can walk out with only a mild surge (if zero swell going on that day). But my experience is that out there, is no-better-off, than the inter-tidal zone.

 

[lookindown]

You don't have to run your machine with discrimination...run it wide open and you will hear everything...dig what you want to dig...I don't dig iron with my CZ21 but I hear it...every now and then I will dig an iron signal just to see what it is...its always iron...bobby pin, tent stake, hair barrette, etc.