Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

[Rebel - KGC]

Now then... ANOTHER "mystery"! We have the Beale Ciphers... THEN, there are the HAZLEWOOD-HART Ciphers (HART PAPERS); are they the same? YOU tell me...

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[lastleg]

Franklin,

I never did get your CD however I believe my sister has it. She's the Purcell
geneology expert I rely on. The connections to TJB with James P. are unfounded according to her. Before the printing of the geneology of Thomas
Purcell and Elenor Sullivan sis and our cousin visited the following courthouses
in Kentucky: Bullitt, Nelson, Hardin and Jefferson. The Kentucky Historical
Society of Frankfort, KY and the Nelson County Historical Society were "most
helpful" also.
Not saying you are wrong, just has not been proven. Yes Pike got his info
from James about the gold. In my opinion it cannot be proven whether he
found placer gold on the South Platte or from the nearby Arkansas River.
I would surmise after further research the odds favor the S. Platte. Reason
being " The South Platte River drainage has over 100 miles of gold bearing
creeks." ["Colorado Rockhounding" by Stephen M Voynick] The Arkansas
River is still being panned for color also.
Back when James arrived in CO (1803) there were no towns only wilderness.
We have no record of where he went but we have the statement to Pike of
being with "horse Indians" in an area north in what many surmise as South
Park. A "park" refers to a level area, or huge meadow between the mountain
ranges. The mining town of Fairplay once had a giant dredge that dug beneath
the gravels and recovered 120,000 troy onces of gold from 1941-1951. But
that dredge was digging down to 70 feet deep in the S. Platte. The fact is
James did'nt know what river or creek he was plucking nuggets from.
The pamplet states the Beale associates found gold and silver in a "ravine"
not in creek placers. To my lights that would indicate a lode find.

It's getting late for my old bones so I will await your reply tomorrow if there
is a tomorrow.

 

[bigscoop]

Group:

Now here is where I have trouble believing a morsel of this yarn: IMHO
Why would a group of intelligent men in 1819-1821 bury a king's ransom
only to abandon it and persue something more interesting or of greater
value and never return to cash in their chips?
Another point I have not heard addressed: TJB says they exchanged a
hefty amount of silver for 'jewels' in old St Louis. Who in their right mind
would take sacks/barrels of unsmelted silver ore in exchange for precious
gems and cut diamonds?
You have to realize that every foot of mineralised land in the western US
has been explored by countless prospectors, none of which to my knowlege
found mixed gold and silver of such proportions.

Is that what you call 'out of the box' reasoning?

I don't believe it was ore. I believe it was, "gold and silver". And during the period there were a few situations where it might have been wise to, "wait it out and see".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

!

ll, if you read the BEALE PAPERS, it CLEARLY indicated that Thom. J. Beale, et al. deposited one load of GOLD/
SILVER in covered pots in Bedford County, VIRGINA; leaving some associates behind to do FURTHER "mining" of GOLD/SILVER (@1819/20). They went back to the "mining area" for a second load, exchanging some GOLD/SILVER in St. Louis. MO for jewelry the SECOND time "EAST" to lighten the load... burying the second load (+ jewelry) with the FIRST load. It was "common" practice for GOLD/SILVER miners to exchange RAW G/S for cash or jewelry for WOMEN... LOL! A VAULT, 6' under sounds like a grave to me... BUT! BUT! It DOES bring up the interesting question. WHAT is "in" those pots, other than jewelry... raw GOLD/SILVER or COINS? I have NOT found any "smelters" to "melt" down raw GOLD/SILVER to COINS, except across the James River in Botetourt County (5 or 6), NORTH of Bedford County, VIRGINIA.

 

[bigscoop]

I'm guessing, "if it still exist", that there could be documents in "the vault" as well.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Okay guys, here's what really happened. A bunch of pot bellied easterners (joke) went out west and found a couple loads of what turned out to be fools gold. Imagine the laughter when they tried to trade it for jewels. Having no other way to hide their shame, they took the "treasure" home and buried it. But how could they return home with empty pockets? What would the home folk think of them? So, to save face they were forced to come up with a plan. What better than a story of a buried vault full of riches? Now their journey out west had been a huge success, and they were the heroes of the day. But, just in case word of their shame ever reached home, they all had to disappear, so...

 

[lastleg]

 

[bigscoop]

Okay guys, here's what really happened. A bunch of pot bellied easterners (joke) went out west and found a couple loads of what turned out to be fools gold. Imagine the laughter when they tried to trade it for jewels. Having no other way to hide their shame, they took the "treasure" home and buried it. But how could they return home with empty pockets? What would the home folk think of them? So, to save face they were forced to come up with a plan. What better than a story of a buried vault full of riches? Now their journey out west had been a huge success, and they were the heroes of the day. But, just in case word of their shame ever reached home, they all had to disappear, so...

Probably went back out west and mailed letters to themselves.

 

[bigscoop]

I see you guys don't want to do any serious discussions on the Beale Treasure. I will leave you to your jokes.

Just taking a fun break...a little laughter is good for the soul.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I see you guys don't want to do any serious discussions on the Beale Treasure. I will leave you to your jokes.

I've done a ton of serious cache research and discussion. But it don't hurt to laugh a little along the way, does it?

 

[bigscoop]

I see you guys don't want to do any serious discussions on the Beale Treasure. I will leave you to your jokes.

I've done a ton of serious cache research and discussion. But it don't hurt to laugh a little along the way, does it?

I'm certain things will get serious again soon enough. Sometimes it's good/better to step away from it all for a while.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Serious question. Is there a mountain around Bedford that starts with SY, or has something to do with those letters?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

NAW, KK... not that I know of; the FEDS took over MOST of the mountains, and made the BLUE RIDGE PARKWAY; in MY section of Boonesboro, VIRGINIA, we have Fleming/Jackson Mountain, No Business Mountain, which are NOT part of the BRP. On the BRP, we have the JEFFERSON NATIONAL FOREST, and GEORGE WASHINGTON NATIONAL FOREST, north of us. BTW, there are NO mountains around Bedford City, VIRGINIA... FLAT & "rolling hills"; Peaks of Otter, on the BRP, is about 7 miles NORTH of BC, VIRGINIA.

 

[lastleg]

Franklin,

"Guide to the Colorado Ghost Town and Mining Camps" (1959) by Terry
Eberhart sez on page 14 "when gold was discovered in California the wagons
They cursed the mountains and went around them, leaving them to the
savages, mountain men and John C Fremont. They knew there was gold in
Colorado. The Spanish said so, Pike said Purcell, or Pursley . . . found some
in 1806 or 1807."

On page 122 the Fairplay area is discussed: "Fairplay is the hub of activity
in South Park . . . for centuries before the white man entered SP it was a
favorite campground for Indian tribes . . . Kiowas, Arapahoes, Apaches and
Utes . . . the Spanish entered the region in the 1700's and built the first gold
and silver mining facilities in CO. Despite the Indian presence SP was a
favorite campground/meeting place for the early white hunters and trappers.
The Spanish called the site "Bayou Salado" for the salt marshes there.
Explorers passed through SP . . . Pike reported that a man named Pursley or
Purcell discovered gold here in 1806 or 1807."

A curious comment you made about an "illegal buffalo hunt" has me puzzled.
Far as I know adventurers/explorers had no one to answer to north of Santa
Fe back then. If you meant "objectionable" to Indians the buffalo herds before
the much later slaughter could stretch for miles in just one herd. "Pamplet"
stated the Beale party was on good terms with the Indians and even put them
to work in the "mine". Another of many unlikely events. Indians would not
have gotten off their ponies to do manual labor. If Beale forced them to work
they never would have lived to tell about it. The Spaniards learned that lesson
the hard way.

If it don't make sense, it never happened.

 

[bigscoop]

If it don't make sense, it never happened.

Or, not everything was exactly as it was told.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

OR... it's just a "code"; gotta read in between the lines"!
Franklin, you "talking" about the mountains of Wheat Valley, above Bedford Lake?

 

[bigscoop]

OR... it's just a "code"; gotta read in between the lines"!

True to a point, but this reading between the lines is also where all the fantasy and printed fiction comes into play. Gotta be careful in what you decide to pursue or believe here. You can sometimes get the wrong piece to fit in the puzzle, but in the end the puzzle can never be completed with the pieces in the wrong place.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"Fantasy and printed fiction"? What ya mean?

 

[bigscoop]

"Fantasy and printed fiction"? What ya mean?

It was just a general statement in regards to all the Beale theories and related reference publications out there, to which there are many, i.e., Poe, Confederate Treasure, Laffite, Stolen Mexican War Chest, Buried here, Buried there, etc. Obviously, they can't all be true. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL... A "LOADED" question! NAW, I DON'T agree. MANY theories from researchers, "locals" on the "Beale Quest". YOU prove YOUR statement, please... YOU can't.