Needing my fix

[Garry]

The post of the old plat map would be nice.

I applogize for not rotating the map. North is skewed anyway.

The map allowed me to get my orientation on the Alley numbering system.

This came from Lynchburg and its People. (About Page 23)

James River is on the right.

Enjoy, Garry

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

The post of the old plat map would be nice.

AGREE!

 

[Garry]

I wanted to revisit the location of the Dr. Robert Early residence and its relationship to the Robert Morriss home.

If there are some of you who enjoy studying old maps and are not already aware of the following site, it may prove enjoyable.

Maps, Pans, and Aerials

You will find several links to Lynchburg maps. The particular map I’m working with is called “1877 Gray’s Map of Lynchburg”. It identifies a lot of property owner’s and major sites in 1877.

I’m posting a portion of the map that shows the residence of Dr. Early at the intersection of Main and 5th street. The street names are not shown in this image but you can visit the link to verify where you are. Locate Dr. Early’s lot shown at the upper left hand corner of the intersection. (Right Hand side of Map) Main street is shown as a vertical street dead ending into Black Water Creek and of course 5th street is horizontal.



From the 1880 Census for Early we are told that his residence was on Main Street. I take this to mean that it fronted on Main street.

From Margaret Cabell (1858) we are told that the home of Robert Morris was opposite residence of Dr. Robert Early. This implies that the Robert Morris home also fronted on Main street and was located at the upper right hand corner of the intersection.

When we look at this location we see that the present owner of the Morriss lot is Max Guggenheimer.

From the 1885 Beale pamphlet we find the following:

Shortly after his removal to Lynchburg, Mr. Morriss engaged in the mercantile business, and shortly thereafter became a purchaser and shipper of tobacco to an extent hitherto unknown in this section. In these pursuits he was eminently successful l for several years, and speedily accumulated a comfortable independence. It was during this period of his success that he erected the first brick building of which the town could boast, and which still stands on Main street, a monument to his enterprise. His private residence, the house now owned and occupied by Max Guggenheimer, Esq., at the head of Main street, I think he also built.

At least some of the unknown author’s account of Robert Morriss’s home in the Beale Pamphlet tracks with independent evidence.

A question:

Looking at the Guggenheimer lot (1877), the building’s (crosshatched figures seem to represent commercial enterprises?) do not appear be a residence yet the pamphlet tells us Morriss’s house still stands and Max is living there. (1885)

Something seems amiss.

The 1881 Lynchburg City Directory also indicates Max was living at this location.

Are the crosshatched buildings simply a mistake on the Gray Map?

More Later?

Garry

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, according Lynchburg, Va. HISTORY, the very FIRST... BRICK building (Hotel) was erected by Samuel J. Harrison in 1817... he was MAYOR of L'burg, Va. in 1814.

 

[ECS]

Looking at the Guggenheimer lot (1877), the building’s (crosshatched figures seem to represent commercial enterprises?) do not appear be a residence yet the pamphlet tells us Morriss’s house still stands and Max is living there. (1885)

Something seems amiss.

The 1881 Lynchburg City Directory also indicates Max was living at this location.

Are the crosshatched buildings simply a mistake ?

During the time period from 1842 to 1887, the Guggenheimer Store had three different location on Main Street.
1842-906 Main Street
1881- 7th & Main/ THE IRON FRONT BUILDING
1887- 1029-1031/ The "Big Building"
Drawings and Photos of these buildings, including some street scenes:
www.lynchburgphotos.org/Businesses/Guggenheimers-Department-Store/i-sPwCVfc

 

[Old Silver]

The 1881 Lynchburg City Directory also indicates Max was living at this location.

Are the crosshatched buildings simply a mistake on the Gray Map?

More Later?

Garry

Just as I told you.

 

[Old Silver]

I wanted to revisit the location of the Dr. Robert Early residence and its relationship to the Robert Morriss home

Looking at the Guggenheimer lot (1877), the building’s (crosshatched figures seem to represent commercial enterprises?) do not appear be a residence yet the pamphlet tells us Morriss’s house still stands and Max is living there. (1885)

Something seems amiss.

The 1881 Lynchburg City Directory also indicates Max was living at this location.

Are the crosshatched buildings simply a mistake on the Gray Map?

More Later?

Garry

You have to consider that there were 3 or 4 Guggenheimers in the store business, including the father of Max, who was also named Max. Our Max is Max jr. His uncle Nathaniel was the first, and Max Jr took over his store in 1866, though he was in business before that. The store, and the residence of Max Jr. was on Main Street, until the late 1880's, then he is listed on Grace Street (at least for his residence). In 1881 Max SR. lived on Church Street, and Max JR.,lived on Main Street, between 4th and 5th. In other words, the head of Main Street. This seems to also be his residence in 1880, because he housed 2 boarders, and we know that the former home of Robert Morriss was a boarding house.

 

[Old Silver]

You have to consider that there were 3 or 4 Guggenheimers in the store business, including the father of Max, who was also named Max. Our Max is Max jr. His uncle Nathaniel was the first, and Max Jr took over his store in 1866, though he was in business before that. The store, and the residence of Max Jr. was on Main Street, until the late 1880's, then it is given as Grace Street. In 1881 Max SR. lived on Church Street, and Max JR.,lived on Main Street, between 4th and 5th. In other words, the head of Main Street. This seems to also be his residence in 1880, because he housed 2 boarders, and we know that the former home of Robert Morriss was a boarding house.

P.S. Also in 1875, Max Jr'. is given as Maine near 5th.
Also, Guggenheimer & Co. (Max Jr. & Maurice Guggenheimer ) dry goods, 144 Main. (1875).

 

[ECS]

1902 Grace Street home is now the Guggenheimer Nursing and Rehab Center.
The original 1842 Guggenheimer Store was located at 906 Main Street until relocated to the Iron Front Store at 7th & Main in 1881, as noted in the above link, post 125.

During the "2nd year of the Confederate War" in the want adds of THE NEWS & ADVANCE, May 7th, 1862 was this:
"WANTED. Two hundred cord of tan bark, such as Black Oak, Chestnut Oak, and Red Oak. Liberal prices paid. Apply to N. Guggenheimer, NO 144 Main Street, Lynchburg, Va".
If the store was located at 906 Main until 1881, then the logical conclusion is that 144 Main must have been the residence.

Bio of Max Guggenheimer Jr (scroll down)
http://genealogytrails.com/vir/campbell/bios_g.html
NOTE: His discharge from the CSA during the "2nd year of the Confederate War".

 

[Old Silver]

There's a lot more to that than meets the eye. I won't give it here.

 

[Garry]

Guys,

Great posts on Max Guggenheimer Jr.

You guys are way ahead of me!

Max was not even on my radar until a couple of days ago when I was working of Dr. Robert Early and the 1877 Gray Map. When I saw that Max owned the lot across Main street where I believed that Robert Morris lived in 1819, I remembered that Max’s name had appeared in several threads here. Going back and reviewing some of those posts, I finally figured out that Max was mentioned in the Beale Pamphlet.

I’m still puzzled by the row of buildings shown on the Gray Map on the lot that Max owned. It doesn’t look like a residence at all!

There is another map on the lynchburghistory.com site. “1891 Baist Map of Lynchburg”

I’m pasting in a portion of the 1877 Gray Map and the 1891 Baist Map that shows the Main and 5th street intersection.

The orientations are different but I believe you should be able sort things out.

Comparing the Gray Map and the Baist Map, many of buildings profiles shown are very different. The1891 Baist Map shows a building that does look like a residence on Max’s lot.

My only explanation is that the Map creators were drawing cartoons to represent the buildings and detail wasn’t one of their strong points. Someone might suggest that there were a lot of major building revisions between 1877 and 1891. (I think this is unlikely).

Given the supporting evidence in the previous posts, (Lynchburg City Directories, etc.) it seems to point strongly that there was a Guggenheimer residence and by extension a Robert Morriss residence at this location. (Corner of Main and 5th street)

I'm pretty well satisfied that Margaret Cabell and the author of the Beale Pamphlet had the location of Robert Morriss's home correct. I have no idea how about long Robert and Sarah Morris lived there and where else they might have lived. Probably, only the Deed of the Morriss's sale of their home will put this question to rest.

BTW, Franklin has posted that he found evidence of Chiswell Dabney living in the Morriss home in 1858. Maybe Dabney was the person who purchased it from Morriss or .......

Garry

 

[ECS]

...

I’m still puzzled by the row of buildings shown on the Gray Map on the lot that Max owned. It doesn’t look like a residence at all

There is another map on the lynchburghistory.com site. “1891 Baist Map of Lynchburg”

I’m pasting in a portion of the 1877 Gray Map and the 1891 Baist Map that shows the Main and 5th street intersection.
View attachment 1446304
The orientations are different but I believe you should be able sort things out.

Comparing the Gray Map and the Baist Map, many of buildings profiles shown are very different. The1891 Baist Map shows a building that does look like a residence on Max’s lot.

My only explanation is that the Map creators were drawing cartoons to represent the buildings and detail wasn’t one of their strong points. Someone might suggest that there were a lot of major building revisions between 1877 and 1891. (I think this is unlikely).

Given the supporting evidence in the previous posts, (Lynchburg City Directories, etc.) it seems to point strongly that there was a Guggenheimer residence and by extension a Robert Morriss residence at this location. (Corner of Main and 5th street)...

First of all, the "row of buildings" is on the corner of 7th Street and Main, "THE IRON FRONT BUILDING", where Max Guggenheimer moved the store in 1881.

 

[ECS]

... THIS is what I KNOW... the ONLY place that I found ANYTHING about Robert MORRISS & wife, Sarah... is in the papers of Margaret Anthony Cabell; they were "notes to myself", ONLY for story-telling; NEVER meant to be PUBLISHED! Her 1858 book on "SKETCHES" was utilized for the BEALE PAPERS... she died in 1882... "Robert & Sarah MORRISS" were "based on" Robert & Sarah MORRIS. THEY did have a HUGE home, in which they DID "board" ppl (ROOMS). It WAS known as the Washington Inn/House. Robert MORRIS was MAYOR of Lynchburg, Va. in 1813... VERY "well-to-do".

Is Cabell's "SKETCHES" considered a reliable source of accurate information?

 

[Garry]

First of all, the "row of buildings" is on the corner of 7th Street and Main, "THE IRON FRONT BUILDING", where Max Guggenheimer moved the store in 1881.

ECS,

You're getting me confused. Are you saying that the 1877 Gray map shows that the row of Guggenheimer buildings are located at 7th and Main? I went back and checked and while the 5th and Main nomenclature are not on the cropped image, viewing the complete map the streets are plainly marked. From what I see, the row of buildings are clearly located in the upper R/H quadrant of the intersection of 5th and Main?

If I have this screwed up please clarify.

Thanks,

Garry

 

[ECS]

No, Garry, you are correct based on that map.
The Guggenheimer's seemed to have up on Main Street many times.
Where was 144 Main Street from N Guggenheimer's Wanted add in the May 7, 1862 NEWS & ADVANCE?
Then the original store at 906 Main Street 1842, the Iron Front at 7th & Main 1881, and the 1887 location at 1029-1031 Main?
The buildings today at 902/904 Main:
https://www.marketatmain.com/story

Where was the 100 block of Main Street in 1862- the "2nd year of the Confederate War"?
Also, did you notice the Saunders and Leftwich names on the 1877 map?

At whose house was Robert Morriss when he told his tale to the "unknown author" during the "2nd year of the Confederate War", and who was discharged from the Confederate army during that time, and who was only name to appear in the Beale Papers who was alive at the pamphlets publication stating that he lived at the former residence of Robert Morriss?

 

[ARC]

Sorry to interrupt... (hey I am good at it)...

I have wanted to ask this question in ALL of the code threads... since day 1 here.
And now for some reason... I have the urge to finally do so.

No rhyme or reason ... and nothing to do with this particular thread... and in no way intended to "derail"... OR.

So...

Curious ?

 

[ECS]

"Well, plunk your magic twanger, Froggy!"

 

[Old Silver]

Sorry to interrupt... (hey I am good at it)...

I have wanted to ask this question in ALL of the code threads... since day 1 here.
And now for some reason... I have the urge to finally do so.

No rhyme or reason ... and nothing to do with this particular thread... and in no way intended to "derail"... OR.

So...

Curious ?

I move that said question be allowed. Do i hear a 2nd?

 

[ARC]

Ahhh... a majority vote ... :P

 

[ARC]

The question is simple...

What are the odds that the whole enchilada is in fact fictitious... on purpose.

Designed to cause confusion / deception / and to throw off the real story... "the real trail".

To "dispel"... To "derail"... suspicions OR conclusions that either pointed in a direction... or person in possession.

Hired to do so by "other" parties ... to paint a picture... to "obscure" real facts... to confuse... to mislead on purpose through an elaborate story/ies... Independently... from a "distance" ... creating a mask of blurred anonymity.

To send out false information to make others in situ confused as to the truth...
And to make those "following the trail" Look like dogs chasing their own tail.

Follow ?

Perhaps this has been a topic / question which has arisen .... one in which I have missed out on.

? ? ?