WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[TN_Guest1523]

I am "well known for this"? By whom?
What have you really added to this discussion beyond telling me what is wrong with me?
You have the floor, expound.

I for one can say you hijack and badger other posters .

 

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[ECS]

Supporting evidence of the Beale story, WHICH IS WHAT THIS BOARD IS ABOUT.
You, on the other hand, are like an annoying bee buzzing around the head of everyone who posts anything that you don't believe in. Why can't you post, even disagreements, without harassing?

...and you are not doing the same?

 

[ECS]

I for one can say you hijack and badger other posters .

That appears to be the claim de jour of Old Silver and you.
So who have I been badgering and how?
Incidentally, I find it very amusing that both of you are playing the thread hijack card on a thread I began years ago.
Would this be considered hijacking?

 

[ECS]

You list about 8 similarities, and about 8 that I think are misleading.

How can you compare a journey of 1817 miles with the YEAR 1817?
Born in 1822 has nothing with the letters to Morriss dated 1822.
Neither of these men found gold...one of their men did. That's a very weak comparison.
Similar words and terms used in both Beale papers? These are words and terms common to almost all writing of that time.
And It's hard to imagine any trip out west in the early 1800s without an encounter with buffaloes and grizzly bears.
Then you state as fact: "Someone, be it Morriss, his wife, Ward, or the friendly tavern owner-had access to E F Beale's 1850 journal, and USED that journal as the basis for the T J Beale story."
Your "facts" seem to have a few flaws. I guess that makes you guilty of the quote you like to post, "First a pet theory is formed, then the evidence will be arranged and likewise presented so that it supports the pet theory."

While on the subject of hijacking, Old Silver, you have been hijacking this thread since post# 612, Nov 04, 2013 with harassing statements. Some of your greatest badgering hits are on this thread, which, I surmise, does make you an expert on hijacking, harassing, and badgering.

 

[ECS]

I for one can say you hijack and badger other posters .

With all those disparaging photos and remarks directed at Franklin, Bigscoop, Rebel-KGC, and me, you should not be casting stones. I reckon you are familiar with the reference.

 

[ibjeepn]

Ok ok ok. You both are right. Neither has to prove anything to the other. Nor anyone else for that matter. I must say that i was really enjoying this thread at one point. Agree to disagree and move on. jmo

 

[TN_Guest1523]

With all those disparaging photos and remarks directed at Franklin, Bigscoop, Rebel-KGC, and me, you should not be casting stones. I reckon you are familiar with the reference.

I suggest you read were that one came from, in context .

 

[masterpoe]

I am "well known for this"? By whom?
What have you really added to this discussion beyond telling me what is wrong with me?
You have the floor, expound.

By me too chap !

 

[masterpoe]

That appears to be the claim de jour of Old Silver and you.
So who have I been badgering and how?
Incidentally, I find it very amusing that both of you are playing the thread hijack card on a thread I began years ago.
Would this be considered hijacking?

Bad alibi like dead fish - cannot stand test of time.

 

[ECS]

... I must say that i was really enjoying this thread at one point. Agree to disagree and move on...

I am in total agreement with you, yet some continue to grind an axe that never holds its edge, and in not achieving that sharpness tries to rally the villagers to light up their torches and storm the castle.

 

[ECS]

RETURN TO THE BEAE TALE

From the TJB letter-Jan 4, 1822;
'Everything necessary for our purposes and for the prosecution of the work had been obtained from Sante Fe".
The governor of Sante Fe de Nuevo Mexico was Facuno Melgares (1818-1822} and was ordered by the governor of Spain's New Mexico, the task of detaining all of Thomas Jefferson's explorers and all Anglo-Americans in the region from New Mexico proper to the Missouri River and Red River denying all Anglo-American egress.
Melgares was very capable of this task, including capturing Zebulon Pike.
The point to all this, is that the Spanish government and Melgares issued permits "for the prosecution " of any and all work in the New Mexico territories, and kept detailed records.
There is NO record of Thomas Beale obtaining anything from Sante Fe.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

From the TJB letter-Jan 4, 1822;
'Everything necessary for our purposes and for the prosecution of the work had been obtained from Sante Fe".
The governor of Sante Fe de Nuevo Mexico was Facuno Melgares (1818-1822} and was ordered by the governor of Spain's New Mexico, the task of detaining all of Thomas Jefferson's explorers and all Anglo-Americans in the region from New Mexico proper to the Missouri River and Red River denying all Anglo-American egress.
Melgares was very capable of this task, including capturing Zebulon Pike.
The point to all this, is that the Spanish government and Melgares issued permits "for the prosecution " of any and all work in the New Mexico territories, and kept detailed records.
There is NO record of Thomas Beale obtaining anything from Sante Fe.

On 1 October 1806, Melgares returned to Santa Fe accompanied by his prisoner,[3] Zebulon Pike, an explorer of Wilkinson, Governor of Louisiana,[4] whom Melgares had detained (or saved from a winter at Pikes Peak).[5] Despite the enmity between Spain and the United States, the two men became close friends[7] and it is Pike's surviving map which details Melgares' expedition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facundo_Melgares

 

[TN_Guest1523]

From the TJB letter-Jan 4, 1822;
'Everything necessary for our purposes and for the prosecution of the work had been obtained from Sante Fe".
The governor of Sante Fe de Nuevo Mexico was Facuno Melgares (1818-1822} and was ordered by the governor of Spain's New Mexico, the task of detaining all of Thomas Jefferson's explorers and all Anglo-Americans in the region from New Mexico proper to the Missouri River and Red River denying all Anglo-American egress.
Melgares was very capable of this task, including capturing Zebulon Pike.
The point to all this, is that the Spanish government and Melgares issued permits "for the prosecution " of any and all work in the New Mexico territories, and kept detailed records.
There is NO record of Thomas Beale obtaining anything from Sante Fe.

I would think you could have favor with the Spanish Governor if your Father-in Law was a Spanish Governor like that of Capetian Thomas J Beale !

 

[franklin]

I would think you could have favor with the Spanish Governor if your Father-in Law was a Spanish Governor like that of Capetian Thomas J Beale !

I love to burst your bubble but El Capetian Thomas Beale's father-in-law was beheaded by the Spanish in Havana, Cuba for pro-French sympathies. So I do not believe El Capetian Thomas Beale would not have been to well received in Sante Fe by the Spanish Governor Melgares. Also there is no "J" in Captain Thomas Beale.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

I love to burst your bubble but El Capetian Thomas Beale's father-in-law was beheaded by the Spanish in Havana, Cuba for pro-French sympathies. So I do not believe El Capetian Thomas Beale would not have been to well received in Sante Fe by the Spanish Governor Melgares. Also there is no "J" in Captain Thomas Beale.

Governor's did lose there heads, but all of them feared losing there heads . And who is to say this Governor was not a friend of the family of Charles Louis Boucher de Grand Pré who served for 27 years in military and administrative posts in Louisiana ?

Can you prove there is no J in his name ?

 

[franklin]

Governor's did lose there heads, but all of them feared losing there heads . And who is to say this Governor was not a friend of the family of Charles Louis Boucher de Grand Pré who served for 27 years in military and administrative posts in Louisiana ?

Can you prove there is no J in his name ?

Can you prove there is a J in his name?

 

[ECS]

Discussed on this thread are the several outside of the Beale story theories and various sources that contributed to the creation of the 1885 Beale Papers-from journals, to newspaper article articles to events and locations on members of the extended bloodline of James Beverly Risque's family.
Now lets examine and analyze the actual composition of the Beale narrative text.
When one studies the prose and syntax it becomes obvious there were a least three different writers involved.
The Morriss "interview" and later the discussion of attempting to solve the ciphers and the reason stated for publishing the Beale story appears to be the same male writer.
Now the physical and personality description of Beale is definitely from a feminine perspective, as well as the description of Morriss and his wife.
Then we come to the Beale letters. There is a verbosity in this prose delivered as a soliloquy in iambic pentameter.
The reference of "the game is worth the candle" is from Shakespeare's TWO GENTLEMEN OF VERONA, a play about a man banish from his community for killing a man in a fair fight, a missing letter, and the heroine is named Julia, like the niece over which Risqué was wounded in a duel with Thomas Beale, causing Beale to leave Virginia.
Notice the phrase "idle punctilio", a line as spoken by a thespian.
Owner of the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, Charles W Button, stated his sub-editor, John William Sherman, wrote the Beale Papers. It is established that Sherman printed the job pamphlet after his cousin James Beverly Ward secured copyright as agent.
Along with Ward's father, Giles Ward, Sherman was a member of the Lynchburg thespian group, and even wrote plays for the group, and would have known his Shakespeare.
Examining the DOI "solved" C2 cipher, its syntax is rather flat, and lacks the verbosity displayed in the "Beale letters", which leads one to suspect another writer involved in the Beale pamphlet endeavor.

 

[releventchair]

Discussed on this thread are the several outside of the Beale story theories and various sources that contributed to the creation of the 1885 Beale Papers-from journals, to newspaper article articles to events and locations on members of the extended bloodline of James Beverly Risque's family.
Now lets examine and analyze the actual composition of the Beale narrative text.
When one studies the prose and syntax it becomes obvious there were a least three different writers involved.
The Morriss "interview" and later the discussion of attempting to solve the ciphers and the reason stated for publishing the Beale story appears to be the same male writer.
Now the physical and personality description of Beale is definitely from a feminine perspective, as well as the description of Morriss and his wife.
Then we come to the Beale letters. There is a verbosity in this prose delivered as a soliloquy in iambic pentameter.
The reference of "the game is worth the candle" is from Shakespeare's TWO GENTLEMEN OF VERONA, a play about a man banish from his community for killing a man in a fair fight, a missing letter, and the heroine is named Julia, like the niece over which Risqué was wounded in a duel with Thomas Beale, causing Beale to leave Virginia.
Notice the phrase "idle punctilio", a line as spoken by a thespian.
Owner of the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, Charles W Button, stated his sub-editor, John William Sherman, wrote the Beale Papers. It is established that Sherman printed the job pamphlet after his cousin James Beverly Ward secured copyright as agent.
Along with Ward's father, Giles Ward, Sherman was a member of the Lynchburg thespian group, and even wrote plays for the group, and would have known his Shakespeare.
Examining the DOI "solved" C2 cipher, its syntax is rather flat, and lacks the verbosity displayed in the "Beale letters", which leads one to suspect another writer involved in the Beale pamphlet endeavor.

Sherman to Button to Sherman... one indebted to the other , yet two employees worked for both but are not commonly considered as working for both..
Descriptions of Beales in China and elsewhere always seem to suggest a near regality about them.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

[/COLOR]

Can you prove there is a J in his name?

You will need to do your own work, I have quit giving info away . No one seems to back there stuff up here, therefore I will not post what I have anymore !

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Discussed on this thread are the several outside of the Beale story theories and various sources that contributed to the creation of the 1885 Beale Papers-from journals, to newspaper article articles to events and locations on members of the extended bloodline of James Beverly Risque's family.
Now lets examine and analyze the actual composition of the Beale narrative text.
When one studies the prose and syntax it becomes obvious there were a least three different writers involved.
The Morriss "interview" and later the discussion of attempting to solve the ciphers and the reason stated for publishing the Beale story appears to be the same male writer.
Now the physical and personality description of Beale is definitely from a feminine perspective, as well as the description of Morriss and his wife.
Then we come to the Beale letters. There is a verbosity in this prose delivered as a soliloquy in iambic pentameter.
The reference of "the game is worth the candle" is from Shakespeare's TWO GENTLEMEN OF VERONA, a play about a man banish from his community for killing a man in a fair fight, a missing letter, and the heroine is named Julia, like the niece over which Risqué was wounded in a duel with Thomas Beale, causing Beale to leave Virginia.
Notice the phrase "idle punctilio", a line as spoken by a thespian.
Owner of the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, Charles W Button, stated his sub-editor, John William Sherman, wrote the Beale Papers. It is established that Sherman printed the job pamphlet after his cousin James Beverly Ward secured copyright as agent.
Along with Ward's father, Giles Ward, Sherman was a member of the Lynchburg thespian group, and even wrote plays for the group, and would have known his Shakespeare.
Examining the DOI "solved" C2 cipher, its syntax is rather flat, and lacks the verbosity displayed in the "Beale letters", which leads one to suspect another writer involved in the Beale pamphlet endeavor.

LOL !