John Sherman + "Mr. Sherman" = Bedford = Vine & Olive Colony = Galveston

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Well, let's get an early start, here's some of the piecework to that elusive smoking gun:

William Patterson, Stephen Girard, Joseph Bonaparte, all three of them joined at the hip and all three of them with a vested interest in privateering. Both Patterson and Girard were in the shipping business and both of them had experience in privateering. So close were these relationships that Stephen Girard was standing next to William Patterson during the Patterson/Bonaparte wedding that nobody approved of. But at least you get the idea of just how acquainted these men were. Land speculation was another area of interest that all three of these men shared. So what’s any of this have to do with “Mr. Sherman” or John Sherman?

Enter the “Torpedo”, a ship owned by William Patterson, it’s letter of commission as an American privateer being granted in 1813, the Captain of that vessel being one, “Mathew Sherman”. Ok, fine, so what’s any of this have to do with the Beale Pamphlet, John Sherman, and Bedford County, Virginia?

Enter “Mexico” Sherman of Bedford County, Virginia, (Yep, that was his real name)…..he was John Sherman’s uncle, and ol Mexico was also related to Mathew Sherman. No big surprise that Mexico ends up moving to Alabama near the original vine and olive colony. Now from, and within all of this, if you look deep enough you WILL find that Thomas Beale. Sr. connection, goes back to a curiosity that ECS had about someone a while back.

John Sherman didn’t write the Beale Pamphlet, he was just the perfect candidate for the job and he was in the perfect location for the task at had, but even if he did write it - it was certainly with a lot of guidance and prior knowledge in regards to actual events.

PS: Now Patterson, Girard, and Joseph Bonaparte, , they all knew Laffite and they were all engaged in the same type of affairs. Laffite also knew "Mr. Sherman" and he even references "Mr. Sherman" in relation to secret distributions of gold. And what is the Beale Pamphlet about? There you go gentlemen, the gun is now smoking hot! :icon_thumleft:
 

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Rebel - KGC

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Well, let's get an early start, here's some of the piecework to that elusive smoking gun:

William Patterson, Stephen Girard, Joseph Bonaparte, all three of them joined at the hip and all three of them with a vested interest in privateering. Both Patterson and Girard were in the shipping business and both of them had experience in privateering. So close were these relationships that Stephen Girard was standing next to William Patterson during the Patterson/Bonaparte wedding that nobody approved of. But at least you get the idea of just how acquainted these men were. Land speculation was another area of interest that all three of these men shared. So what’s any of this have to do with “Mr. Sherman” or John Sherman?

Enter the “Torpedo”, a ship owned by William Patterson, it’s letter of commission as an American privateer being granted in 1813, the Captain of that vessel being one, “Mathew Sherman”. Ok, fine, so what’s any of this have to do with the Beale Pamphlet, John Sherman, and Bedford County, Virginia?

Enter “Mexico” Sherman of Bedford County, Virginia, (Yep, that was his real name)…..he was John Sherman’s uncle, and ol Mexico was also related to Mathew Sherman. No big surprise that Mexico ends up moving to Alabama near the original vine and olive colony. Now from, and within all of this, if you look deep enough you WILL find that Thomas Beale. Sr. connection, goes back to a curiosity that ECS had about someone a while back.

John Sherman didn’t write the Beale Pamphlet, he was just the perfect candidate for the job and he was in the perfect location for the task at had, but even if he did write it - it was certainly with a lot of guidance and prior knowledge in regards to actual events.

PS: Now Patterson, Girard, and Joseph Bonaparte, , they all knew Laffite and they were all engaged in the same type of affairs. Laffite also knew "Mr. Sherman" and he even references "Mr. Sherman" in relation to secret distributions of gold. And what is the Beale Pamphlet about? There you go gentlemen, the gun is now smoking hot! :icon_thumleft:

"John (William) Sherman didn't write the Beale Pamphlet..." hmmm...; what's next...?
 

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"John (William) Sherman didn't write the Beale Pamphlet..." hmmm...; what's next...?

I'm not sure myself....but I'm pretty certain where the story came from, where the deposits came from, and who was pursuing it with such fever in 1862/63/64. What I don't know is "why" because from all of the evidence it had long since been removed. But, maybe not. :dontknow: Just have no idea why they allowed it to remain, if in fact it does still remain, which is very doubtful. :dontknow:
 

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I'm not sure myself....but I'm pretty certain where the story came from, where the deposits came from, and who was pursuing it with such fever in 1862/63/64. What I don't know is "why" because from all of the evidence it had long since been removed. But, maybe not. :dontknow: Just have no idea why they allowed it to remain, if in fact it does still remain, which is very doubtful. :dontknow:

The QUESTION is... WHAT is "IT"?
 

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The QUESTION is... WHAT is "IT"?

"It" was the deposits....wealth....probably just as described in the C2. But I suspicion it may have also contained records of some type. Some of the sources have eluded to missing documents & letters, etc., so it's possible there have been a bit more. :dontknow: If Morriss was to be a last resort of sorts then it's possible accurate/detailed records & receipts would have been required as well.
 

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William Patterson, Stephen Girard, Joseph Bonaparte, all three of them joined at the hip and all three of them with a vested interest in privateering. Both Patterson and Girard were in the shipping business and both of them had experience in privateering. So close were these relationships that Stephen Girard was standing next to William Patterson during the Patterson/Bonaparte wedding that nobody approved of. But at least you get the idea of just how acquainted these men were. Land speculation was another area of interest that all three of these men shared...



Now Patterson, Girard, and Joseph Bonaparte, , they all knew Laffite and they were all engaged in the same type of affairs. Laffite also knew "Mr. Sherman" and he even references "Mr. Sherman" in relation to secret distributions of gold...
In addition to his banking intrests,Stephen Girard made his fortune in the China Trade.Girard would export Appalachian Ginseng to China in trade for opium.It is interesting to note that the money Girard loaned to the USA for the War of 1812 was basicly drug trade money.
Now the question that arises is where in Appalachia was the ginseng source and who supplied the ginseng to Girard?
 

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What I think is interesting are the names that were profiting from the privateering and smuggling interest, today we would call these arrangements silent partners and/or shell companies.

ECS - it's interesting that you brought up the opium trade, Laffite even makes brief mention of this trade in his memoirs. When one starts to get a grasp on all of this it makes sense that the depositors mentioned in the Beale Pamphlet might have just need of a secret third party such as Morriss. It almost makes me wonder if those deposits might have been made, (along with some incriminating documents), as a means of security to insure that the course chosen was honored. :dontknow: It's also interesting to note that the court case involving Beale Sr. estate wasn't without the indirect presence of Patterson. Beale knew the Laffites and most likely the Sherman's, etc.
 

tat2guy

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To all of the above. Lets not forget the Thomas Beale who listed is residence as china. This info that's being talked about now could possibly answer why a Thomas Beale was in china. No to ponder a bit more.
 

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What I think is interesting are the names that were profiting from the privateering and smuggling interest, today we would call these arrangements silent partners and/or shell companies.

ECS - it's interesting that you brought up the opium trade, Laffite even makes brief mention of this trade in his memoirs... It's also interesting to note that the court case involving Beale Sr. estate wasn't without the indirect presence of Patterson...
William Patterson was also involved with trade with China as a partner in the CANTON COMPANY of Baltimore.
 

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1832 - (the ten year term) - it was significant to the course of action that had been put into motion, but why, exactly? My thoughts on this, considering those involved, is that the money was to be placed in an interest bearing trust for a period of ten years, after which, in ten years it could either be accessed or it could start paying out dividends. But this is simply a guess. :dontknow:
 

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1832 - (the ten year term) - it was significant to the course of action that had been put into motion, but why, exactly? My thoughts on this, considering those involved, is that the money was to be placed in an interest bearing trust for a period of ten years, after which, in ten years it could either be accessed or it could start paying out dividends. But this is simply a guess. :dontknow:

According to EARLY Lyncburg, Va. HISTORY, there were MANY ppl who invested in stocks, certificates, & bonds... MAINLY "connected" with the Tobacco Trades (BIG for Richmond, Baltimore, "Philly").... AND! The "slave trade" was also a "biggie".
Samuel Miller was the BIGGEST "investor" who donated LOTS of $$$$$$$$$$$ to Lynchburg, Albemarle County, and UVA.
ANOTHER one was George M. Jones (Jones Memorial Library for R & I... Reference Library Section).
 

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tat2guy

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franklin said:
One of my distant kin purchased Thomas Beale's house and property in Nansemond County, Virginia. This Thomas Beale that was given as from Maco, China was actually an officer on the ship from India to England called the HMS Grosvenor which sank in 1782. Google HMS Grosvenor. This Thomas Beale moved to the South Fork of the Cumberland River a couple miles south of where Chief Doublehead lived. Chief Doublehead was given that name because when he was drunken all he wanted to do was to kill white men. This could be your Thomas Beale as I wrote about it on my CD Book, "Lost Diary of Thomas J. Beall" The HMS Grosvenor had in it's cargo immense treasures that have never been located or found. The manifest was valued at 73,000 pounds but the immense treasures on this ship was from private collections of a rich person or king in India. I have the complete cargo of this ship and there were boxes and boxes full of jewels, there was a stone covered throne made of pure gold, a Madonna with the baby Jesus made of pure gold and then there were trunks and trunks full of silver and gold ducats. When one of the shipmen said he spotted land, Mr. Beale said they were hundreds of miles from land and they proceeded on to shipwreck which could have been planned in advance to steal the cargo?

Thanks Franklin. Isn't this the same Thomas Beale from a Kentucky census during the early 1800's? Do we know when he died?

HH Jay
 

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Yes he lived in Kentucky very near the border with Tennessee. And he should have been in the census of 1800. You need to check that census to see if he had a son named Thomas. The TJB on HMS Grosvenor may have been too old as he was second mate in 1782. Also, TJB told Morriss that he was from the Western part of the state or country?

The author only claims "Morriss assumed that Beale was from the western portion" of the region, Mprriss was never actually told that. I think the author made mention of this detail with good reason. Clearly the author knew who Beale was and what the real truth to the story was. :icon_thumleft:
 

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The author only claims "Morriss assumed that Beale was from the western portion" of the region, Mprriss was never actually told that. I think the author made mention of this detail with good reason. Clearly the author knew who Beale was and what the real truth to the story was. :icon_thumleft:

And...?
 

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What I think is interesting are the names that were profiting from the privateering and smuggling interest, today we would call these arrangements silent partners and/or shell companies...

It's also interesting to note that the court case involving Beale Sr. estate wasn't without the indirect presence of Patterson. Beale knew the Laffites and most likely the Sherman's, etc.
Concerning Beale Sr's estate,what was Chlory Delancy,AKA Chloe Dalancy,Delaney's connection?
She traveled from Botetourt County,Va to New Orleans claiming she was the heir of Beale's Virginia property.
Did she represent another party,or just herself?
 

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Concerning Beale Sr's estate,what was Chlory Delancy,AKA Chloe Dalancy,Delaney's connection?
She traveled from Botetourt County,Va to New Orleans claiming she was the heir of Beale's Virginia property.
Did she represent another party,or just herself?

PROBABLY Senior's widow... lived in New Orleans, not Fincastle, Va. Wife & I are gonna go to Fincastle, soon.
 

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Concerning Beale Sr's estate,what was Chlory Delancy,AKA Chloe Dalancy,Delaney's connection?
She traveled from Botetourt County,Va to New Orleans claiming she was the heir of Beale's Virginia property.
Did she represent another party,or just herself?

When I get time I'll look for the exact details, but I'm pretty certain she is also connected to Patterson, just can't recall all the details right now....too darn early in the day. Maybe Tat will chime in on this.
 

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