"Documented Proof: The 30 Million Dollar Beale Treasure Is a Hoax" by Tom Kenny

[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel-KGC:

Nope.

Good luck to all,











~The Old Bookaroo

NOT a HOAX, then...

 

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[Old Bookaroo]

Rebel-KGC:

I never claimed Edward Fitzgerald Beale's Expedition was a hoax. I don't know if you intentionally misread my posts or not. I do know you don't summarize them correctly - the first time I've had this happen on TN.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel-KGC:

I never claimed Edward Fitzgerald Beale's Expedition was a hoax. I don't know if you intentionally misread my posts or not. I do know you don't summarize them correctly - the first time I've had this happen on TN.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

Wasn't "chatting" about EF Beale's Expedition... Thomas J. Beale's Expedition! ONLY one in the BEALE PAPERS! DIDN'T misread yer "post"; YOUR opinion of me not "summarizing" MY "POSTS" CORRECTLY is based on WHAT...?

 

[FinderKeeper]

Old Bookaroo , I can see how you think you are so right but you have to do your work on the codes before you know it all. It takes years of work to understand what happened. Check out the code thats broken, check out how he wrote out the pounds of gold and silver. No I am talking about the real code Beale did, NOT the written part Ward made. Ward corrected Beales writings in this code. THIS is proof alone. Then Ward redid Beales story and made corrections to it before he printed it, thats when the newer words where used. I would like to say you are right but I have done my home work and find to many things that prove this story is real. I have redone Beales Code Book and it shows the mistakes he made in numbering , then when you add the changes Ward made to the DOI its no wonder no one figured out this mess. Other's have made it to the end with no answer to a treasure. But the answers are there and again I find parts that prove Ward did make this up. At this point I still work on the codes when I have time and I do have a site I want to have checked out but I need more proof before I spend alot of money to make the land owner do a dig. I don't blame anyone for their thoughts on this mess. I just hope to prove if there is or was a treasure at the site I want to dig at soon.
I am sure Ward tried to solve the codes before he printed them. He removed some of the numbers in the code just in case someone did solve the codes. They would have to come to him and cut him a deal to locate the treasure but the parts he removed burn up in a fire.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Old Bookaroo , I can see how you think you are so right but you have to do your work on the codes before you know it all. It takes years of work to understand what happened. Check out the code thats broken, check out how he wrote out the pounds of gold and silver. No I am talking about the real code Beale did, NOT the written part Ward made. Ward corrected Beales writings in this code. THIS is proof alone. Then Ward redid Beales story and made corrections to it before he printed it, thats when the newer words where used. I would like to say you are right but I have done my home work and find to many things that prove this story is real. I have redone Beales Code Book and it shows the mistakes he made in numbering , then when you add the changes Ward made to the DOI its no wonder no one figured out this mess. Other's have made it to the end with no answer to a treasure. But the answers are there and again I find parts that prove Ward did make this up. At this point I still work on the codes when I have time and I do have a site I want to have checked out but I need more proof before I spend alot of money to make the land owner do a dig. I don't blame anyone for their thoughts on this mess. I just hope to prove if there is or was a treasure at the site I want to dig at soon.
I am sure Ward tried to solve the codes before he printed them. He removed some of the numbers in the code just in case someone did solve the codes. They would have to come to him and cut him a deal to locate the treasure but the parts he removed burn up in a fire.

Hmmm... (tugging at beard, drinking REAL, TRUE Coffee).

 

[Old Bookaroo]

"negative research: A technique used by professional treasure hunters whereby they attempt to prove a treasure lead false in order to avoid unnecessary work."

~ Encyclopedia of Buried Treasure Hunting, Karl von Mueller (San Francisco, CA: 1990)

Good luck to all!

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[bigscoop]

A word about the remaining ciphers, and especially cipher #1. Pick any subject matter and without too much trouble you can eventually create a 65-70% clear test relating to that subject (some have even created up to an 80% clear text). But this is what usually happens thereafter - the code breaker starts getting creative in the many ways the codes can be altered or distorted in order that he can eventually achieve more clear text. However, once the code breaker starts substituting codes, dropping codes, re-assigning codes, etc., he is actually producing new code that never existed or he is changing the original code that did exist to suit his needs - thus his solution/clear text can only be inaccurate. This is the beauty of a simple substitution cipher - without the correct key and full key, and with just a few minor alterations of any type, you can make it say anything you want/need it to say. Having said all this - without the correct key you are simply creating a clear text out of thin air and fooling yourself into believing what you alone created.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"negative research: A technique used by professional treasure hunters whereby they attempt to prove a treasure lead false in order to avoid unnecessary work."

~ Encyclopedia of Buried Treasure Hunting, Karl von Mueller (San Francisco, CA: 1990)

Good luck to all!

~The Old Bookaroo

Is THAT, what YOU do...?

 

[ECS]

Old Bookaroo , I can see how you think you are so right but you have to do your work on the codes before you know it all. It takes years of work to understand what happened. Check out the code thats broken, check out how he wrote out the pounds of gold and silver. No I am talking about the real code Beale did, NOT the written part Ward made. Ward corrected Beales writings in this code. THIS is proof alone. Then Ward redid Beales story and made corrections to it before he printed it, thats when the newer words where used. I would like to say you are right but I have done my home work and find to many things that prove this story is real. I have redone Beales Code Book and it shows the mistakes he made in numbering , then when you add the changes Ward made to the DOI its no wonder no one figured out this mess. Other's have made it to the end with no answer to a treasure. But the answers are there and again I find parts that prove Ward did make this up. At this point I still work on the codes when I have time and I do have a site I want to have checked out but I need more proof before I spend alot of money to make the land owner do a dig. I don't blame anyone for their thoughts on this mess. I just hope to prove if there is or was a treasure at the site I want to dig at soon.
I am sure Ward tried to solve the codes before he printed them. He removed some of the numbers in the code just in case someone did solve the codes. They would have to come to him and cut him a deal to locate the treasure but the parts he removed burn up in a fire.

Have you read Ward's disclaimer contained in the BEALE PAPERS?
"I would say a word to those who may take an interest in them...It is,TO DEVOTE ONLY SUCH TIME AS CAN BE SPARED FROM YOUR LEGITIMATE BUSINESS TO THE TASK,AND IF YOU CAN SPARE NO TIME,LET THE MATTER ALONE".
What does that tell you about C1&C3,and that the Beale story was "borrowed" from other sources?

 

[bigscoop]

Have you read Ward's disclaimer contained in the BEALE PAPERS?
"I would say a word to those who may take an interest in them...It is,TO DEVOTE ONLY SUCH TIME AS CAN BE SPARED FROM YOUR LEGITIMATE BUSINESS TO THE TASK,AND IF YOU CAN SPARE NO TIME,LET THE MATTER ALONE".
What does that tell you about C1&C3,and that the Beale story was "borrowed" from other sources?

A fair assumption. However, it could just as easily be that the pamphlet story was only intended for a possible few, and not for everyone, just those possible few who might have recognized some of the details in the long-ago events. If you have ever seen the movie Three Days of The Condor then you should know that the basic notion of code annalist looking for codes in random publications was based on true activities, this practice/experimenting of publishing secret code in select publications dating back even before the turn of the 19th century. So the notion that someone might use even a popular publication to pass information to a select few isn't out of the question at all. Given this, then, "I would say a word to those who may take an interest in them...It is,TO DEVOTE ONLY SUCH TIME AS CAN BE SPARED FROM YOUR LEGITIMATE BUSINESS TO THE TASK,AND IF YOU CAN SPARE NO TIME,LET THE MATTER ALONE" could have been written for another reason. i.e., "only those with knowledge of the events need apply".

 

[bigscoop]

Oh...and there is one other HUGE factor that is seldom discussed because so few really understand the complexity in the notion, but here it is;

The C1 cipher. To those with limited knowledge of creating code it will mean very little, but to those who understand the complexities involved then it's really quite remarkable. "The Gillogly strings".....they are not a random freak event, they were placed there with purpose. Now it really matters very little weather the C1 cipher actually contains a clear test or not, what really matters is that unless someone had a very experienced and keen knowledge of code creating then the odds that they would have created this string of code is, well, "extremely" unlikely. There is absolutely zero evidence or reason to believe that Ward was this keen and experienced at writing code, the same also goes for Sherman & Morriss. Over the 25 or so years that I have been involved with this mystery I have had many opportunities to speak with some of the best code researchers in the business and nearly all of them agree on one thing...."Whoever wrote the C1 cipher presented in the pamphlet had a great working knowledge of ciphers". So if we rule out Ward, Sherman, Morriss, etc., then who wrote it?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Oh...and there is one other HUGE factor that is seldom discussed because so few really understand the complexity in the notion, but here it is;

The C1 cipher. To those with limited knowledge of creating code it will mean very little, but to those who understand the complexities involved then it's really quite remarkable. "The Gillogly strings".....they are not a random freak event, they were placed there with purpose. Now it really matters very little weather the C1 cipher actually contains a clear test or not, what really matters is that unless someone had a very experienced and keen knowledge of code creating then the odds that they would have created this string of code is, well, "extremely" unlikely. There is absolutely zero evidence or reason to believe that Ward was this keen and experienced at writing code, the same also goes for Sherman & Morriss. Over the 25 or so years that I have been involved with this mystery I have had many opportunities to speak with some of the best code researchers in the business and nearly all of them agree on one thing...."Whoever wrote the C1 cipher presented in the pamphlet had a great working knowledge of ciphers". So if we rule out Ward, Sherman, Morriss, etc., then who wrote it?

Albert Einstein...? Time-Traveler...?

 

[bigscoop]

Albert Einstein...? Time-Traveler...?

.....just pointing out that there's more then just the story keeping the Beale mystery alive. The placement of the repeated codes, the amount of repeated codes and the amount and placement of the single code, the use of the four digit coding, etc. After all of his time spent researching the ciphers even William F. Friedman still believed that C1 contained some type of clear text, and he certainly isn't alone in that notion. Now if someone wants to believe that Ward maintained the expertise to construct such a complicated, well constructed cipher, then that is certainly quite the blind leap of faith.

 

[bigscoop]

You ask who wrote it (Beale Treasure Cipher Codes) That is easy to answer ---Thomas J. Beale wrote the cipher codes. He also wrote the letters contained in the Job Print Pamphlet. An unknown author wrote the rest and placed it into a pamphlet for sale by his agent James Beverly Ward of Lynchburg. That is all anyone needs to know.

As for the gillgoly strings is simple to explain, "Thomas J. Beale had the "Original DOI" lying in front of him when he made CP #1 and #3 as he did when he encoded CP #2.

Assumptions as to who wrote the ciphers isn't the issue....the issue being that it had to be someone who had a very clear understanding of cipher function and construction, whoever that person was. My point being that the "current evidence" concludes that it couldn't have been Ward, J. Sherman, Morriss, etc. With the current evidence in hand it presents an extremely strong case against any of the previously mentioned as having the experience & abilities required to pen the ciphers. It's pointless to continue to debate who was behind the Beale Pamphlet, why, etc. I'm just pointing out who the current evidence clearly concludes didn't do it.

 

[ECS]

A fair assumption. However, it could just as easily be that the pamphlet story was only intended for a possible few, and not for everyone, just those possible few who might have recognized some of the details in the long-ago events. If you have ever seen the movie Three Days of The Condor then you should know that the basic notion of code annalist looking for codes in random publications was based on true activities, this practice/experimenting of publishing secret code in select publications dating back even before the turn of the 19th century. So the notion that someone might use even a popular publication to pass information to a select few isn't out of the question at all. Given this, then, "I would say a word to those who may take an interest in them...It is,TO DEVOTE ONLY SUCH TIME AS CAN BE SPARED FROM YOUR LEGITIMATE BUSINESS TO THE TASK,AND IF YOU CAN SPARE NO TIME,LET THE MATTER ALONE" could have been written for another reason. i.e., "only those with knowledge of the events need apply".

...or the disclaimer can be just that,a wink and nod that the BEALE PAPERS are nothing more than a dime western/treasure novel and the DOI solved cipher 2 is nothing more than"sucker bait" to lure others to solve C1 & C3 which may be nothing more than gibberish disguised as code.

 

[bigscoop]

...or the disclaimer can be just that,a wink and nod that the BEALE PAPERS are nothing more than a dime western/treasure novel and the DOI solved cipher 2 is nothing more than"sucker bait" to lure others to solve C1 & C3 which may be nothing more than gibberish disguised as code.

If you wish to continue to believe the Gillogly strings were just a random condition of happenstance or that Ward maintained the expertise to create such a complex and complicated code then so be it. However, I really think it would serve you well to spend a few years crash-coursing the subject of codes. I, for one, am not vein enough to assume that I know more about the subject of code construction then men like Friedman and many others like him. Point being, they say it is likely that the ciphers do contain a legitimate clear text of some type and that the person who penned the ciphers was an expert at the craft. Given their various levels of experience and knowledge I think it prudent to give these men the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes in order to gain enough knowledge about a subject, even those portions we have little personal interest in, we have to dedicate ourselves to learning all that we can about that subject. Having spent the time doing just this over the years, I now understand their points of view on the subject and their reasons for holding those opinions. The ciphers you take as the simple works of a simple man present far more evidence to the opposite then you realize.

 

[ECS]

If you wish to continue to believe the Gillogly strings were just a random condition of happenstance or that Ward maintained the expertise to create such a complex and complicated code then so be it. However, I really think it would serve you well to spend a few years crash-coursing the subject of codes. I, for one, am not vein enough to assume that I know more about the subject of code construction then men like Friedman and many others like him. Point being, they say it is likely that the ciphers do contain a legitimate clear text of some type and that the person who penned the ciphers was an expert at the craft. Given their various levels of experience and knowledge I think it prudent to give these men the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes in order to gain enough knowledge about a subject, even those portions we have little personal interest in, we have to dedicate ourselves to learning all that we can about that subject. Having spent the time doing just this over the years, I now understand their points of view on the subject and their reasons for holding those opinions. The ciphers you take as the simple works of a simple man present far more evidence to the opposite then you realize.

Before you reply with a condesending patronizing retort,please take into consideration those professional code breakers who have had a go at the Beale ciphers.Alan Turing of Bletchley,who broke the Nazi ENIGMA one pad cipher,could not achieve a real message from the Beale ciphers.Neither the CIA and the NSA with their super computers.
Clay Shields,computer science professor at Georgetown University states:"I think is was a hoax.I'd love for someone to prove me wrong...but I don't think it's going to happen... Most decryption of ciphers of this type depends on the fact that languages use letters in different frequencies.And what you do is you examine all of the numbers that repeat.And then based on that,you try to to match those repetitions in the English language".
Once again,when you take into consideration that the Beale Papers "borrowed" the story from other outside sources,the ciphers become suspect-tainted fruit from the poisonous tree.
I don't take the ciphers as "a simple work of a simple man",but the fabrication to enhance the marketing of a simple dime novel.
If that is not a plausible explaination,then please explain how the best in code breaking have not been able to break this code from the 1800's?

 

[Justintime]

The letters are very clear, It, is unintelligible without the aid of a, key. The pamphlet, was designed, and created to bring the Lost key to light. For It to be lost forever, would be catastrophic,and would avail nothing. Just my opinion, thanks Justintime

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Before you reply with a condesending patronizing retort,please take into consideration those professional code breakers who have had a go at the Beale ciphers.Alan Turing of Bletchley,who broke the Nazi ENIGMA one pad cipher,could not achieve a real message from the Beale ciphers.Neither the CIA and the NSA with their super computers.
Clay Shields,computer science professor at Georgetown University states:"I think is was a hoax.I'd love for someone to prove me wrong...but I don't think it's going to happen... Most decryption of ciphers of this type depends on the fact that languages use letters in different frequencies.And what you do is you examine all of the numbers that repeat.And then based on that,you try to to match those repetitions in the English language".
Once again,when you take into consideration that the Beale Papers "borrowed" the story from other outside sources,the ciphers become suspect-tainted fruit from the poisonous tree.
I don't take the ciphers as "a simple work of a simple man",but the fabrication to enhance the marketing of a simple dime novel.
If that is not a plausible explaination,then please explain how the best in code breaking have not been able to break this code from the 1800's?

TOO much focus on Beale Ciphers 1 & 3; RUSES to distract... stick with FACTS & HISTORY!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The letters are very clear, It, is unintelligible without the aid of a, key. The pamphlet, was designed, and created to bring the Lost key to light. For It to be lost forever, would be catastrophic,and would avail nothing. Just my opinion, thanks Justintime

SNORT!