Stephen Girard & the Opium Trade?

[bigscoop]

ECS, allow me to present you with the following possibility for you to explore, if you've not done so already, as this is what tunnel vision can cause us to either discover or miss. Just depends on the direction and purpose of our tunnel vision and where we choose to look.


You say that Stephen Girard made his fortune in the opium business and other wares from China. Assuming you've done your research then you're also aware that the East India Trading Company had formed a monopoly over the opium trade from China, which they had, just in case you didn't know.



So given these important details then it becomes safe to assume that Girard either had direct dealings with the East India Trading Company or that he had found a way around that monopoly. In either case he would have held great knowledge about the competition he was having to deal with.



So in theory we can readily assume that Stephen Girard, at the very least, had knowledge of this guy; Thomas Beale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Now with all of the above, one might ask himself if a certain American Thomas Beale, the one who had registered himself only as being from China in an earlier US census, might have been related to the above Beale who was so active with the East India Trading Company in the China opium trade. Seems a reasonable curiosity to me. But I'm sure you're already aware of all of this and that you've thoroughly investigated all of it. Right? If not then you'll likely be asking how any of this might have anything to do with the Beale papers. But don't ask me, I'm just presenting you with some curious possibilities that you may wish to explore much further if haven't already.

 

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[Old Silver]

ECS, allow me to present you with the following possibility for you to explore, if you've not done so already, as this is what tunnel vision can cause us to either discover or miss. Just depends on the direction and purpose of our tunnel vision and where we choose to look.


You say that Stephen Girard made his fortune in the opium business and other wares from China. Assuming you've done your research then you're also aware that the East India Trading Company had formed a monopoly over the opium trade from China, which they had, just in case you didn't know.



So given these important details then it becomes safe to assume that Girard either had direct dealings with the East India Trading Company or that he had found a way around that monopoly. In either case he would have held great knowledge about the competition he was having to deal with.



So in theory we can readily assume that Stephen Girard, at the very least, had knowledge of this guy; Thomas Beale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Now with all of the above, one might ask himself if a certain American Thomas Beale, the one who had registered himself only as being from China in an earlier US census, might have been related to the above Beale who was so active with the East India Trading Company in the China opium trade. Seems a reasonable curiosity to me. But I'm sure you're already aware of all of this and that you've thoroughly investigated all of it. Right? If not then you'll likely be asking how any of this might have anything to do with the Beale papers. But don't ask me, I'm just presenting you with some curious possibilities that you may wish to explore much further if haven't already.

Looks like you found him. Name spelled correctly.

The article says he also dealt in Cotton. Interesting.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

WRONG guy; Battle of New Orleans... Capt. Thomas Beale, Sr. - Beale's Rifles of Botetourt County, Va.; even Capt. Paschal Buford was there... ARTILLERY!

 

[ECS]

Girard's opium trade was covered in my Ward" thread.
The GIRARD BANK OF PHILDELPHIA was the United States representative of England's BARING BANK, thereby being the holder of the BRITISH EAST INDIA CO's assets in America.

 

[bigscoop]

The original post isn't about Thomas Beale, but rather it's about seeing the bigger picture. Look, here's what all of these super powers eventually realized - It does you no good to own the world if you have nobody to sell it to. Everyone wanted and badly needed commerce and that commerce was suddenly being challenged by everyone. You could continue going to war over these challenges but how do you continue to profit beyond what you've spent to obtain it?

So the real conflicts were monetary, the continued choking of a country's financial system. Once everyone began to understand this they all started leveraging for mutual treaty & trade. These were all of the political games being played out as each country attempted to position themselves to get what they needed to survive financially. The cost of continued physical war was simply far too great so these wars became political in nature and big business was an important ally in these wars. If you take the profitable tobacco industry or cotton industry away from a challenger then you not only weaken your opponent but also his demands, while strengthening your own position to make demands. The same can be said of the opium trade or any other profitable trade. The assault on Spanish shipping commerce is a prime example, etc., etc., etc.

 

[bigscoop]

Girard's opium trade was covered in my Ward" thread.
The GIRARD BANK OF PHILDELPHIA was the United States representative of England's BARING BANK, thereby being the holder of the BRITISH EAST INDIA CO's assets in America.

Exactly....

 

[Eldo]

The strange thing about the theory is that he was washed up in Macau, in Hong Kong in 1841.

I doubt very highly that this Beale had anything to with it.....

The Artillery comment seems more right on if these characters were really to be the involved members, but seems this whole document may be a cover front, and if it was this clandestine and you would hang for it,

WRONG guy; Battle of New Orleans... Capt. Thomas Beale, Sr. - Beale's Rifles of Botetourt County, Va.; even Capt. Paschal Buford was there... ARTILLERY!

One of the codes in the Beale aligns with the mileage from the mines in AZ to New Orleans....this helps Rebel....thanks for that insight

Rebel........Why do you think they would hand it to someone to print, a document that would implicate themselves by family name......LOL

They have a death wish?.....LOL.......or a really bad 'Agent' crafting the codes

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The strange thing about the theory is that he was washed up in Macau, in Hong Kong in 1841.

I doubt very highly that this Beale had anything to with it.....

The Artillery comment seems more right on if these characters were really to be the involved members, but seems this whole document may be a cover front, and if it was this clandestine and you would hang for it,



One of the codes in the Beale aligns with the mileage from the mines in AZ to New Orleans....this helps Rebel....thanks for that insight

Rebel........Why do you think they would hand it to someone to print, a document that would implicate themselves by family name......LOL

They have a death wish?.....LOL.......or a really bad 'Agent' crafting the codes

DOESN'T help; need more info from you (AZ to New Orleans...? WHEN...?). WHAT family name...? BEALE...? WHEN...?
NO "Death Wish" to MY knowledge... STICKING WITH FACTS & HISTORY here.

 

[bigscoop]

Forget Beale, as in reference to the story...start looking at the era and the bigger picture....to everything that was going on in the world.

The Adams Onis Treaty was signed in Feb, 1819, nine months later we have the first Beale deposit date of Nov, 1819.
The Adams Onis Treaty was ratified in Feb, 1821, ten months later we have the second Beale deposit date Dec, 1821.
Like clockwork, Beale visited Morriss two months after the first deposit date and one month after the second date.

And here's the best part, in both cases Beale's visits to Morriss came “exactly” eleven months after the treaty's signing date and "exactly" eleven months after the treaty's ratification date.

The above is not by coincidence, the odds of these events being coincidence are staggering. You're author is detailing a much bigger story. The described deposits and the events of the Adams Onis Treaty are, in some way, attached at the hip. To this there can be no doubt whatsoever. No possible way could there be exactly eleven months between both of Beale's visits and these treaty dates unless it was intended. To deny this is simply blind denial.

And this is smoking gun #1.....

 

[bigscoop]

I shouldn't do this in advance of the book, but what the heck.....

Let me clear out more of the smoke for you.....


The story tells us that Morriss was suppose to open the box in 1832 but that he waited until 1845.


1832....this is the date of the Convention of 1832, a major event that ultimately lead to Texas finally being annexed to the United states in 1845.


So in essence, in 1845, the original targeted boundaries of the Louisiana Purchase were finally achieved and the US finally had a completed country.This is smoking gun #2......

Why is 1862 referenced.....well, now that's truly priceless.

 

[bigscoop]

The Civil War was the only event that ever threatened to divide the country, and its principles, that had been built since the annexation of Texas.

1862...this was the year that the confederacy saw its back broken. After a fateful attempt to draw Britain and France into the war something took place that sealed the confederacy's own financial death. Their plan backfired on them in such a way that it ultimately decided their fate.

Cotton diplomacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is smoking gun #3.....these smoking guns painting only the big picture that need to be understood before anyone can even start the rest of the chase. This is the first portion of the story the author was telling....these are some of the "connexions" required.

 

[ECS]

THE SMOKING OPIUM PIPE

... Look, here's what all of these super powers eventually realized - It does you no good to own the world if you have nobody to sell it to. Everyone wanted and badly needed commerce and that commerce was suddenly being challenged by everyone. You could continue going to war over these challenges but how do you continue to profit beyond what you've spent to obtain it?

So the real conflicts were monetary, the continued choking of a country's financial system. Once everyone began to understand this they all started leveraging for mutual treaty & trade. These were all of the political games being played out as each country attempted to position themselves to get what they needed to survive financially. The cost of continued physical war was simply far too great so these wars became political in nature and big business was an important ally in these wars...

American Merchants and the China Opium Trade, 1800-1840
This site explains the economics and the American players, including Girard, Astor, and Peabody, and many more.
Three economic effects of the 1815 TREATY OF PARIS:
1. Imposition of the BRITISH GOLD STANDARD
2. The ascendency of the banking HOUSE OF ROTHSCHILD *
3. The British opium trade became the world's biggest business.
*The House of Rothschild had a connection to the KGC/CSA by way of CSA Sec of State Judah P Benjamin and John Slidel.

 

[bigscoop]

Your author is telling a story revolving around true events. The Beale Pamphlet was a fishing trip, Ward as the agent just as described. Ward was not the author, just the acting agent.

In 1885 the pamphlet was produced with the hope that something still remained and that someone with knowledge of the entire affair still remained.

The timeline of the presented events in association with the dates in the Beale Pamphlet are accurate, as are the explanations of each. But there is still a lot more that has to be explained, including how all of this leads back to Bedford Co., which is also known.

I can tell you now that through the effected described period, 1817-1822, that there were people in Bedford County who were caught up in the affair. A lot of smoking guns to come......and you can consider it case closed.

However, having said all the prior, if your dreams are the discovery of a huge treasure then the evidence suggest that you can all but forget it.

 

[ECS]

... A lot of smoking guns to come......

Speaking of smoking guns, Stephen Girard was also a gun runner for Simon Bolivar in South America.
Brings back the line from Jean Lafitte's Memoirs concerning Feb 24, 1821:"to Mr Hall, Mr Campbell, Mr Sherman, and to those of Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places".
And-""Mr Ward, Mr Kingsley, and Mr Peabody seem to me to be very honest, nice men...'.
Peabody was also involved in the opium trade, Mathew (Mexico) Sherman was Capt of the Canton Co's ship, TORPEDO, and the Canton Co was owned by William Patterson of Baltimore , whose daughter, Elizabeth, was married to Jerome Bonaparte, who was in Richmond during the 2nd year of the Confederate War.

 

[releventchair]

The United States agreed to pay it's citizens claims against Spain up to 5 million. What claims of what citizens?

The Border | 1819 The Adams-Onis Treaty

 

[bigscoop]

Speaking of smoking guns, Stephen Girard was also a gun runner for Simon Bolivar in South America.
Brings back the line from Jean Lafitte's Memoirs concerning Feb 24, 1821:"to Mr Hall, Mr Campbell, Mr Sherman, and to those of Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places".
And-""Mr Ward, Mr Kingsley, and Mr Peabody seem to me to be very honest, nice men...'.
Peabody was also involved in the opium trade, Mathew (Mexico) Sherman was Capt of the Canton Co's ship, TORPEDO, and the Canton Co was owned by William Patterson of Baltimore , whose daughter, Elizabeth, was married to Jerome Bonaparte, who was in Richmond during the 2nd year of the Confederate War.

Now you are squarely on top of it all! And I can tell you this, the Laffite memoirs are authentic! No doubt about that now..... And there's even more "connexions" directly back to Bedford Co., when we explore the history of the Long expedition (James Long) and his defeated cause. Different factions existed in Bedford County. The duel was not over a girl, to say.

 

[bigscoop]

The United States agreed to pay it's citizens claims against Spain up to 5 million. What claims of what citizens?

The Border | 1819 The Adams-Onis Treaty

The US, just as they had done in Florida, wanted to colonize in Texas but due to certain events in the interim they didn't want a certain faction of the French included in that effort, although they did utilize them as a stepping stone to keeping the pressure on Spain. This was Laffite's complaint, that after all the service they had provided the US ultimately never allowed the French to colonize in Texas. This is why the Brits kept Napoleon alive on that island, just so the Americans were ever aware that Napoleon could easily be sent that way, their political usage of him always changing shape with certain events. This is why Napoleon feared that if he did escape, even to the US, he would forever be looking over his shoulder. He wasn't even sure that upon his escape he wouldn't quickly be dispatched to the bottom of the ocean by his rescuers. The politics of the era were the wars and everyone was playing.

 

[bigscoop]

To answer a lot of various inquiries at once, yes, it's "very likely" that the opium Thomas Beale was in fact the same Salt Lick Thomas Beale, as the first was Scottish by birth and listed a foreigner among his British associates. The Salt Lick Beale listed his residence as being China, so no doubt the two are very strongly related, if not the same.

Question is, were these Beale/Beales related to the Bedford County Beales in some way? Can you hear the register going, "Cing-ching! Ching-ching!"

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Now you are squarely on top of it all! And I can tell you this, the Laffite memoirs are authentic! No doubt about that now..... And there's even more "connexions" directly back to Bedford Co., when we explore the history of the Long expedition (James Long) and his defeated cause. Different factions existed in Bedford County. The duel was not over a girl, to say.

DO TELL!

 

[bigscoop]

DO TELL!

Reb, when we say that the duel was over the honor of a woman, is this to say the insult was directly aimed at her, or is it possible that the insult was aimed at her family, etc., perhaps even in her presence? So when we say it was over a woman's honor that's pretty broad ground.