Thomas J. Beale = Author?

[bigscoop]

Yep, I know, the notion seems a bit ridiculous at first glance, but maybe not? I say this because there are certain details in the Beale Papers that are obvious fabrications, so the question was; "if the story contained any measure of truth then what condition might exist that would cause this unknown author to manufacture details in an otherwise true tale?"

Now then, like every other theory out there this one is also highly speculative in nature except for one detail, it does present an actual Thomas J. Beale of the correct spelling who resided in Richmond, VA. Note that this is not a Thomas Beale, or a Thomas Beal, or any other variation of the name, but rather it is Thomas J. Beale, or TJB, just as presented in the pamphlet.

Also note that this theory presents an entirely new direction, this theory suggesting that, perhaps, Thomas J. Beale was just another servant to an otherwise unknown and unnamed entity and that just like Morriss he too was left holding an empty bag.

Since there is no hard evidence that the adventure in the story ever took place this isn't a theory that I hold too much faith in, however, since all theories at this point are based purely on speculation I figured I'd finally toss this one into the mix as well simply because of it's vastly different proposition. So here you go, something new and fresh to be forever mauled over.

Who was Thomas J. Beale?

First, let us go back to the very core of the mystery at hand, this being the accurate identification of, “Thomas J. Beale.” Over the years there have been several suspects and these same suspects and all of the same evidence continues to be debated and tossed about to this very day without conclusive solution. Regardless which Thomas Beale we choose there is always something waiting in the wings to rattle that Thomas Beale off of the proverbial pedestal. So who, exactly, was “Thomas J. Beale?” Hold this thought.....


In the pamphlet we learn that our author, after having scheduled interviews, proceeded to question Morriss in regards to the narrated events. These detailed meetings have always offered the notion that perhaps our author was a lawyer, the language and details offered strongly suggesting that this might have been the case. However, not necessarily. Could be that Morriss was in poor health and that scheduled interviews were required solely for this reason and no other. This might also explain how our author came into contact with J. B. Ward? Now then, who exactly, was Thomas J. Beale? Could he have been the actual author? Think not? Well, maybe you are right, but then again, maybe you are wrong?


In the story we learn that after a period of time the key will arrive to Morriss so he will be able to proceed in meeting the requirements of his assigned charge. It is in these details that we quickly assume this to mean that Beale is in control of that letter containing the key, but what if he wasn't the person in control? What if the individual in Saint Louis was really in control of that letter and the deposits, Thomas J. Beale just being the elected captain and foreman/supervisor of the operation? What if Thomas J. Beale only delivered the goods to someone else in Virginia who was actually responsible for the securing of those goods?


“If” this condition actually existed then it could very well be that Thomas J. Beale himself never knew the final location of those deposits, the contents of the all-important key being completely unknown even to him. Years later, perhaps after feeling like he had been cheated of his share, Beale is forced to hold interview with Morriss in an attempt to recover the iron box and the three ciphers, and to also rehash all of the potentially important details in both of their memories? These details also including the timely reference about our unknown author having important business affairs in Richmond, our Thomas J. Beale also living Richmond.


“If” our correct Thomas J. Beale had been around 20 - 25 at the time of his grand adventure in 1822 then this would only make him about 62 — 65 in 1862, or in his late 80's in 1885. Odd, very odd, that an alderman (older man) named Thomas J. Beale was living in Richmond in the 1860's. So I ask again, who, exactly, was this Thomas J. Beale with a “J” living in Richmond?


“If” this Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was the actual author then this might explain all of the discrepancies in the tale, his possession of the ciphers and the letters, his association with Ward and his reasons for keeping his identity anonymous, and his reason for going public with the story at such a late age. This could also explain the description offered of Thomas J. Beale, an old man reliving his youth, and, it could also explain the additional attempt of misdirection regarding the suggestion that Thomas J. Beale was from a western portion of the state, and so on and so on. And last, why is this TJB the only TJB of the “possible” correct age and era that we can locate?


There is absolutely no doubt that the story isn't true as narrated, however, might there be a completely different, and reasonable underlying explanation for this existing condition? Perhaps, perhaps not? From the details offered in this tale we are lead to only assume that Thomas J. Beale was in total charge of everything, but was he?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Cry Of The Eagle: History And Legends Of The Cherokee Indians And Their Buried Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Rebel - KGC]

Yep, I know, the notion seems a bit ridiculous at first glance, but maybe not? I say this because there are certain details in the Beale Papers that are obvious fabrications, so the question was; "if the story contained any measure of truth then what condition might exist that would cause this unknown author to manufacture details in an otherwise true tale?"

Now then, like every other theory out there this one is also highly speculative in nature except for one detail, it does present an actual Thomas J. Beale of the correct spelling who resided in Richmond, VA. Note that this is not a Thomas Beale, or a Thomas Beal, or any other variation of the name, but rather it is Thomas J. Beale, or TJB, just as presented in the pamphlet.

Also note that this theory presents an entirely new direction, this theory suggesting that, perhaps, Thomas J. Beale was just another servant to an otherwise unknown and unnamed entity and that just like Morriss he too was left holding an empty bag.

Since there is no hard evidence that the adventure in the story ever took place this isn't a theory that I hold too much faith in, however, since all theories at this point are based purely on speculation I figured I'd finally toss this one into the mix as well simply because of it's vastly different proposition. So here you go, something new and fresh to be forever mauled over.

Who was Thomas J. Beale?

First, let us go back to the very core of the mystery at hand, this being the accurate identification of, “Thomas J. Beale.” Over the years there have been several suspects and these same suspects and all of the same evidence continues to be debated and tossed about to this very day without conclusive solution. Regardless which Thomas Beale we choose there is always something waiting in the wings to rattle that Thomas Beale off of the proverbial pedestal. So who, exactly, was “Thomas J. Beale?” Hold this thought.....


In the pamphlet we learn that our author, after having scheduled interviews, proceeded to question Morriss in regards to the narrated events. These detailed meetings have always offered the notion that perhaps our author was a lawyer, the language and details offered strongly suggesting that this might have been the case. However, not necessarily. Could be that Morriss was in poor health and that scheduled interviews were required solely for this reason and no other. This might also explain how our author came into contact with J. B. Ward? Now then, who exactly, was Thomas J. Beale? Could he have been the actual author? Think not? Well, maybe you are right, but then again, maybe you are wrong?


In the story we learn that after a period of time the key will arrive to Morriss so he will be able to proceed in meeting the requirements of his assigned charge. It is in these details that we quickly assume this to mean that Beale is in control of that letter containing the key, but what if he wasn't the person in control? What if the individual in Saint Louis was really in control of that letter and the deposits, Thomas J. Beale just being the elected captain and foreman/supervisor of the operation? What if Thomas J. Beale only delivered the goods to someone else in Virginia who was actually responsible for the securing of those goods?


“If” this condition actually existed then it could very well be that Thomas J. Beale himself never knew the final location of those deposits, the contents of the all-important key being completely unknown even to him. Years later, perhaps after feeling like he had been cheated of his share, Beale is forced to hold interview with Morriss in an attempt to recover the iron box and the three ciphers, and to also rehash all of the potentially important details in both of their memories? These details also including the timely reference about our unknown author having important business affairs in Richmond, our Thomas J. Beale also living Richmond.


“If” our correct Thomas J. Beale had been around 20 - 25 at the time of his grand adventure in 1822 then this would only make him about 62 — 65 in 1862, or in his late 80's in 1885. Odd, very odd, that an alderman (older man) named Thomas J. Beale was living in Richmond in the 1860's. So I ask again, who, exactly, was this Thomas J. Beale with a “J” living in Richmond?


“If” this Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was the actual author then this might explain all of the discrepancies in the tale, his possession of the ciphers and the letters, his association with Ward and his reasons for keeping his identity anonymous, and his reason for going public with the story at such a late age. This could also explain the description offered of Thomas J. Beale, an old man reliving his youth, and, it could also explain the additional attempt of misdirection regarding the suggestion that Thomas J. Beale was from a western portion of the state, and so on and so on. And last, why is this TJB the only TJB of the “possible” correct age and era that we can locate?


There is absolutely no doubt that the story isn't true as narrated, however, might there be a completely different, and reasonable underlying explanation for this existing condition? Perhaps, perhaps not? From the details offered in this tale we are lead to only assume that Thomas J. Beale was in total charge of everything, but was he?

"MHO" on another "THREAD"...

 

[Cryptography]

Yep, I know, the notion seems a bit ridiculous at first glance, but maybe not? I say this because there are certain details in the Beale Papers that are obvious fabrications, so the question was; "if the story contained any measure of truth then what condition might exist that would cause this unknown author to manufacture details in an otherwise true tale?"

Now then, like every other theory out there this one is also highly speculative in nature except for one detail, it does present an actual Thomas J. Beale of the correct spelling who resided in Richmond, VA. Note that this is not a Thomas Beale, or a Thomas Beal, or any other variation of the name, but rather it is Thomas J. Beale, or TJB, just as presented in the pamphlet.

Also note that this theory presents an entirely new direction, this theory suggesting that, perhaps, Thomas J. Beale was just another servant to an otherwise unknown and unnamed entity and that just like Morriss he too was left holding an empty bag.

Since there is no hard evidence that the adventure in the story ever took place this isn't a theory that I hold too much faith in, however, since all theories at this point are based purely on speculation I figured I'd finally toss this one into the mix as well simply because of it's vastly different proposition. So here you go, something new and fresh to be forever mauled over.

Who was Thomas J. Beale?

First, let us go back to the very core of the mystery at hand, this being the accurate identification of, “Thomas J. Beale.” Over the years there have been several suspects and these same suspects and all of the same evidence continues to be debated and tossed about to this very day without conclusive solution. Regardless which Thomas Beale we choose there is always something waiting in the wings to rattle that Thomas Beale off of the proverbial pedestal. So who, exactly, was “Thomas J. Beale?” Hold this thought.....


In the pamphlet we learn that our author, after having scheduled interviews, proceeded to question Morriss in regards to the narrated events. These detailed meetings have always offered the notion that perhaps our author was a lawyer, the language and details offered strongly suggesting that this might have been the case. However, not necessarily. Could be that Morriss was in poor health and that scheduled interviews were required solely for this reason and no other. This might also explain how our author came into contact with J. B. Ward? Now then, who exactly, was Thomas J. Beale? Could he have been the actual author? Think not? Well, maybe you are right, but then again, maybe you are wrong?


In the story we learn that after a period of time the key will arrive to Morriss so he will be able to proceed in meeting the requirements of his assigned charge. It is in these details that we quickly assume this to mean that Beale is in control of that letter containing the key, but what if he wasn't the person in control? What if the individual in Saint Louis was really in control of that letter and the deposits, Thomas J. Beale just being the elected captain and foreman/supervisor of the operation? What if Thomas J. Beale only delivered the goods to someone else in Virginia who was actually responsible for the securing of those goods?


“If” this condition actually existed then it could very well be that Thomas J. Beale himself never knew the final location of those deposits, the contents of the all-important key being completely unknown even to him. Years later, perhaps after feeling like he had been cheated of his share, Beale is forced to hold interview with Morriss in an attempt to recover the iron box and the three ciphers, and to also rehash all of the potentially important details in both of their memories? These details also including the timely reference about our unknown author having important business affairs in Richmond, our Thomas J. Beale also living Richmond.


“If” our correct Thomas J. Beale had been around 20 - 25 at the time of his grand adventure in 1822 then this would only make him about 62 — 65 in 1862, or in his late 80's in 1885. Odd, very odd, that an alderman (older man) named Thomas J. Beale was living in Richmond in the 1860's. So I ask again, who, exactly, was this Thomas J. Beale with a “J” living in Richmond?


“If” this Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was the actual author then this might explain all of the discrepancies in the tale, his possession of the ciphers and the letters, his association with Ward and his reasons for keeping his identity anonymous, and his reason for going public with the story at such a late age. This could also explain the description offered of Thomas J. Beale, an old man reliving his youth, and, it could also explain the additional attempt of misdirection regarding the suggestion that Thomas J. Beale was from a western portion of the state, and so on and so on. And last, why is this TJB the only TJB of the “possible” correct age and era that we can locate?


There is absolutely no doubt that the story isn't true as narrated, however, might there be a completely different, and reasonable underlying explanation for this existing condition? Perhaps, perhaps not? From the details offered in this tale we are lead to only assume that Thomas J. Beale was in total charge of everything, but was he?

Was there a thread that Jean said something like that? i seem to remember reading some of his a few weeks ago.

 

[bigscoop]

Was there a thread that Jean said something like that? i seem to remember reading some of his a few weeks ago.

"Something like that"......could be.... But if he did then he'd pretty much be concluding that the story wasn't true as presented, which would go against his previous stance. So I doubt it.

 

[Cryptography]

"Something like that"......could be.... But if he did then he'd pretty much be concluding that the story wasn't true as presented, which would go against his previous stance. So I doubt it.

I think it he said that Cap Thomas Beale and a lawyer were the authors. I think he was talking about the letters to Morriss and then the lawyer that put the rest together to make The Beale Papers.

Great web site too The Beale Papers . COM

 

[bigscoop]

I think it he said that Cap Thomas Beale and a lawyer were the authors. I think he was talking about the letters to Morriss and then the lawyer that put the rest together to make The Beale Papers.

Great web site too The Beale Papers . COM

The theory of a lawyer as author has been floating about for several years, but no implicating proof to support it. If you want to look for them in the archives there's some old post/threads regarding/addressing the lawyer theory here at Tnet. But here again, it's all pure speculation.

 

[Bad-Company]

Yep, I know, the notion seems a bit ridiculous at first glance, but maybe not? I say this because there are certain details in the Beale Papers that are obvious fabrications, so the question was; "if the story contained any measure of truth then what condition might exist that would cause this unknown author to manufacture details in an otherwise true tale?"

Now then, like every other theory out there this one is also highly speculative in nature except for one detail, it does present an actual Thomas J. Beale of the correct spelling who resided in Richmond, VA. Note that this is not a Thomas Beale, or a Thomas Beal, or any other variation of the name, but rather it is Thomas J. Beale, or TJB, just as presented in the pamphlet.

Also note that this theory presents an entirely new direction, this theory suggesting that, perhaps, Thomas J. Beale was just another servant to an otherwise unknown and unnamed entity and that just like Morriss he too was left holding an empty bag.

Since there is no hard evidence that the adventure in the story ever took place this isn't a theory that I hold too much faith in, however, since all theories at this point are based purely on speculation I figured I'd finally toss this one into the mix as well simply because of it's vastly different proposition. So here you go, something new and fresh to be forever mauled over.

Who was Thomas J. Beale?

First, let us go back to the very core of the mystery at hand, this being the accurate identification of, “Thomas J. Beale.” Over the years there have been several suspects and these same suspects and all of the same evidence continues to be debated and tossed about to this very day without conclusive solution. Regardless which Thomas Beale we choose there is always something waiting in the wings to rattle that Thomas Beale off of the proverbial pedestal. So who, exactly, was “Thomas J. Beale?” Hold this thought.....


In the pamphlet we learn that our author, after having scheduled interviews, proceeded to question Morriss in regards to the narrated events. These detailed meetings have always offered the notion that perhaps our author was a lawyer, the language and details offered strongly suggesting that this might have been the case. However, not necessarily. Could be that Morriss was in poor health and that scheduled interviews were required solely for this reason and no other. This might also explain how our author came into contact with J. B. Ward? Now then, who exactly, was Thomas J. Beale? Could he have been the actual author? Think not? Well, maybe you are right, but then again, maybe you are wrong?


In the story we learn that after a period of time the key will arrive to Morriss so he will be able to proceed in meeting the requirements of his assigned charge. It is in these details that we quickly assume this to mean that Beale is in control of that letter containing the key, but what if he wasn't the person in control? What if the individual in Saint Louis was really in control of that letter and the deposits, Thomas J. Beale just being the elected captain and foreman/supervisor of the operation? What if Thomas J. Beale only delivered the goods to someone else in Virginia who was actually responsible for the securing of those goods?


“If” this condition actually existed then it could very well be that Thomas J. Beale himself never knew the final location of those deposits, the contents of the all-important key being completely unknown even to him. Years later, perhaps after feeling like he had been cheated of his share, Beale is forced to hold interview with Morriss in an attempt to recover the iron box and the three ciphers, and to also rehash all of the potentially important details in both of their memories? These details also including the timely reference about our unknown author having important business affairs in Richmond, our Thomas J. Beale also living Richmond.


“If” our correct Thomas J. Beale had been around 20 - 25 at the time of his grand adventure in 1822 then this would only make him about 62 — 65 in 1862, or in his late 80's in 1885. Odd, very odd, that an alderman (older man) named Thomas J. Beale was living in Richmond in the 1860's. So I ask again, who, exactly, was this Thomas J. Beale with a “J” living in Richmond?


“If” this Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was the actual author then this might explain all of the discrepancies in the tale, his possession of the ciphers and the letters, his association with Ward and his reasons for keeping his identity anonymous, and his reason for going public with the story at such a late age. This could also explain the description offered of Thomas J. Beale, an old man reliving his youth, and, it could also explain the additional attempt of misdirection regarding the suggestion that Thomas J. Beale was from a western portion of the state, and so on and so on. And last, why is this TJB the only TJB of the “possible” correct age and era that we can locate?


There is absolutely no doubt that the story isn't true as narrated, however, might there be a completely different, and reasonable underlying explanation for this existing condition? Perhaps, perhaps not? From the details offered in this tale we are lead to only assume that Thomas J. Beale was in total charge of everything, but was he?

Very good read!

So if we are saying the Thos Beale of New Orleans was the Register of Wills, that would make him a lawyer. If Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans who later had two hotels in New Orleans, but was in deters prison for a few years from 1811-1814 for bad debt, he would not be a Lawyer. A debt was excused by the court at the time he was in deters prison, because of a law from 1808-1816 that you could not charge a person in deters prison for a debt that came due during his prison stay.

Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans ( Absent Heirs ). This is a Law that if someone is not seen for a 5 year period they can be presumed dead after 7 years and the estate can be distributed after probate.

I spent 4 hours reading on the internet to find this information. If the Thomas Beale of the Papers died out west there would be an Absent Heirs case for him and the people he took with him. I will look into this more.

 

[franklin]

Very good read!

So if we are saying the Thos Beale of New Orleans was the Register of Wills, that would make him a lawyer. If Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans who later had two hotels in New Orleans, but was in deters prison for a few years from 1811-1814 for bad debt, he would not be a Lawyer. A debt was excused by the court at the time he was in deters prison, because of a law from 1808-1816 that you could not charge a person in deters prison for a debt that came due during his prison stay.

Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans ( Absent Heirs ). This is a Law that if someone is not seen for a 5 year period they can be presumed dead after 7 years and the estate can be distributed after probate.

I spent 4 hours reading on the internet to find this information. If the Thomas Beale of the Papers died out west there would be an Absent Heirs case for him and the people he took with him. I will look into this more.

Thomas Beale, Register of Wills, did not die out West. He died on his plantation above New Orleans. I have the day he died and the day his son, Thomas Beale Jr. died. Neither of these two men were anywhere near Bedford County, Virginia to bury any treasure in the Fall of 1819 and the Fall of 1821. He owed a gambling debt that is why his debt was forgiven by the court.

 

[Bad-Company]

Thomas Beale, Register of Wills, did not die out West. He died on his plantation above New Orleans. I have the day he died and the day his son, Thomas Beale Jr. died. Neither of these two men were anywhere near Bedford County, Virginia to bury any treasure in the Fall of 1819 and the Fall of 1821. He owed a gambling debt that is why his debt was forgiven by the court.

It would seem we are talking about two different people. Captain Thomas Beale's home was south of town on the river. You can clearly see the streets named after his children. There is no record of Captain Thomas Beale dying in the area in 1820. Just a Thos Beale who was the Register of Will's Sep 8, 1820, but there is an Absent Heirs for his estate in 1824 court papers. This would indicate that Captain Beale was not in the area of New Orleans at the time.

If Captain Beale was the ROW the probate court would have known he was dead in 1823-1825. They all worked with the ROW every day. There are records of 4 different Thomas Beale's in the area at the given time of the 1820s, but. I have been searching the internet for hours in the last few days and will continue to help you with your history work.

Good night Frank.

 

[Rebel-KGC]

"THE STORY" was made up by one of Charley Button's Sub-Editors of the Lynchburg, Va. DAILY VIRGINIAN newspaper in 1884/85 (released in 1885). NO treasure, FOLKS! SORRY!

 

[Rebel-KGC]

The name of the "unknown" author was indicated in an article, FOR GOOD AND BAD, CIVIL WAR EDITOR WAS MAN OF HIS TIMES (Google it); "the story" was a DIME STORE NOVEL.

 

[franklin]

It would seem we are talking about two different people. Captain Thomas Beale's home was south of town on the river. You can clearly see the streets named after his children. There is no record of Captain Thomas Beale dying in the area in 1820. Just a Thos Beale who was the Register of Will's Sep 8, 1820, but there is an Absent Heirs for his estate in 1824 court papers. This would indicate that Captain Beale was not in the area of New Orleans at the time.

If Captain Beale was the ROW the probate court would have known he was dead in 1823-1825. They all worked with the ROW every day. There are records of 4 different Thomas Beale's in the area at the given time of the 1820s, but. I have been searching the internet for hours in the last few days and will continue to help you with your history work.

Good night Frank.

You are confusing the father and son Beale with each other and drawing conclusions about the rest. Read all of the Court Documents they are online. The Thomas Beale Register of Wills is the same Captain Thomas Beale of Beale Rifles that fought in the Battle of New Orleans under General Andrew Jackson and sent him letters after the war was over. The Thomas Beale Jr. was his son and he died in 1823 and yes Thomas Beale Sr. died in 1820. I have undeniable evidence of all.