Captain Thomas Beale Sr.

[bigscoop]

"Formed in 1816, a private corporation with private investors, including one thousand Europeans." In its time, this institution represented the largest monied corporation in the world."

 

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[bigscoop]

I mentioned both Witchers-do you actually read my posts before you respond?

I know you did, so why not different Coles, Clays, Jacksons, as well? But no mistaking who "Chief Justice" Marshall was, no room was left for complete reader speculation on that one.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

I think I have seen more Civil War stuff in the Beale Forum than Beale stuff. Not sure how Beale ended up in the Civil War? Just not what I have for decoded cipher, but interesting all the same.

 

[bigscoop]

I think I have seen more Civil War stuff in the Beale Forum than Beale stuff. Not sure how Beale ended up in the Civil War? Just not what I have for decoded cipher, but interesting all the same.

Most of the Civil War information arrives from two root sources, the very brief mention of "the second year of the confederate war" in the Beale Papers and also the long standing romance of southern values and history that still resides rich in many southern regions. It is from these two main roots that elements like the missing CSA treasury and the KGC loom larger then life and begin to creep into the tale.

 

[ECS]

I know you did, so why not different Coles, Clays, Jacksons, as well?...

The same reason why you don't mention different Halls, Campbells, and Shermans.

 

[bigscoop]

The same reason why you don't mention different Halls, Campbells, and Shermans.

No, no, no..........not the same at all. You see, I've done all of my research into these different folks over the years and I remained open to other possibilities in the process, allowed for that middle ground, which is why I have arrived at the conclusions that I have. I didn't go into my research restricting my efforts to only "local" sources and an iron clad commitment that things must remain as such.

 

[ECS]

... You see, I've done all of my research into these different folks over the years and I remained open to other possibilities in the process, allowed for that middle ground, which is why I have arrived at the conclusions that I have...

...and still no irrefutable proof of any direct connection from Laflin's Lafitte memoirs or any other source to the Beale Papers copyrighted by James Beverly Ward in 1885.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Myself I have learned to take documented evidence as proof of burials. So I would have to say that I believe the Louisiana Gazette September 11, 1820 page 2, column 2 as factual and the date that Captain Thomas Beale Sr. was buried in the Protestant Cemetery in Jefferson Parish, New Orleans, Louisiana.

I item here that is not talked about is that Celeste Beale was a Catholic. That is that if it was Captain Thomas Beale he would be in the Catholic graveyard Louis 1 and not in a Protestant Cemetery in Jefferson Parish that was not a Parish until 1825.

 

[bigscoop]

...and still no irrefutable proof of any direct connection from Laflin's Lafitte memoirs or any other source to the Beale Papers copyrighted by James Beverly Ward in 1885.

You may be right, or, you may be wrong. "Clay, Coles, Jackson, Witcher, and Chief Justice Marshall."
Clay= Henry
Coles= both Issac and Edward
Jackson= President
Witcher= not William
Marshall= Chief Justice

In the Beale Pamphlet your author presents brief reference to an institution, also to "important business affairs in Richmond." This reference is sometimes related to the number "18", a branch of that institution which was located in Richmond, Virginia. All of the names listed above hold relationship to this institution and the man who used it to conduct affairs of state, the branch of interest relating to the Beale papers being branch 18. In 1819 there was another major event taking place in the United States that involved this institution, the author's reference to this institution being relevant to the story and the event in question.

In 1818 President James Monroe sent interim Secretary of War, George Graham, also a banker directly connected to this institution, on a secret mission into the Texas region to hold parlay with both Laffite and General Charles Lallemand. Less then one year later we have our first Beale deposit.

As Laffite was preparing to leave Galveston island he made reference to distributions as promised, this then followed by secret reference as to his planned route of travel, a branch of the institution in question present in all four of the directions he intended to travel.

Now obviously there is a boat load of research in all of this and unfortunately it is all somewhat complicated and little in depth, so no simple to understand short explanations are even remotely possible. But I will say that your author knew "exactly" what he was talking about and that his story was intended for a targeted audience, just not in the manner you believe.

In the Beale Pamphlet story what was the alleged reason for hiding the two deposits in the first place?

 

[ECS]

"Formed in 1816, a private corporation with private investors, including one thousand Europeans." In its time, this institution represented the largest monied corporation in the world."

Is this an early form of SPECTRE? Cue in JAMES BOND THEME music.
You keep pushing this conspiracy theory of a movement of great wealth that involved Lafitte, Girard and now include Andrew Jackson, Henry Clay, and Dolly Madison's cousin, Edward Coles as being relevant to the 1885 Beale Papers,and believe it was kept secret until the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
Remember, two can keep a secret of this magnitude if one is dead- but you have included politicians, pirates, bankers, a pawn and a thief in this super conspiracy, yet provide NO absolute proof of connection to Ward's 1885 Beale Papers.

 

[bigscoop]

Is this an early form of SPECTRE? Cue in JAMES BOND THEME music.
You keep pushing this conspiracy theory of a movement of great wealth that involved Lafitte, Girard and now include Andrew Jackson, Henry Clay, and Dolly Madison's cousin, Edward Coles as being relevant to the 1885 Beale Papers,and believe it was kept secret until the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
Remember, two can keep a secret of this magnitude if one is dead- but you have included politicians, pirates, bankers, a pawn and a thief in this super conspiracy, yet provide NO absolute proof of connection to Ward's 1885 Beale Papers.

You are wrong again and again in your summations, your sole focus never permitting you to see the much larger picture. I have provided you with more then enough "documented" information and leads to that information if only you care to take the time to actually look for it. And that connection to the Beale Pamphlet is "absolutely" present as well, as are the absolute connections to Clay, Coles, Jackson, Witcher, and "Chief Justice Marshall", Galveston Island, Champ D'asile, Richmond, the Adams Onis Treaty, another event that was taking place in 1819 which the author also made direct reference to, and, one of the world's largest monied corporations during the era, etc., etc. etc. In order to understand any of this you have to first understand how this monied corporation functioned, the role Clay played in it support of it, the role Marshall played in setting it's governance, the shared employer of both Edward and Issac Coles, the role Jackson played in all of it, and the reason the author singled out a Witcher. Of the 5000 shareholders in this huge corporation you will uncover many names, including a few "Beales" and so on, and so on. Once you have done all of this research you will then understand why, and a question posed earlier, the party did not and could not trust this huge corporation. All of our suspects were in Richmond in 1829 concluding important business affairs....a letter was sent from this place to the highest seat in government with inquiry about payments for services rendered, so....what was in Richmond, Virgina, that was so darn important?

 

[ECS]

... so....what was in Richmond, Virgina, that was so darn important?

You have the floor.
So what in 1829 was "so darn important" in Richmond?
...and while you are at it, who was the famous captive in Brazil that you mentioned but never followed up?
You are very good at leaving these open ended statement, full of sound and fury, but in the end signify nothing more than "I know something the rest of you don't".
As with all the theories presented concerning the Beale Papers, NO hard real proof exists that any part of the story actually ever happened.

 

[Cryptography]

Myself I have learned to take documented evidence as proof of burials. So I would have to say that I believe the Louisiana Gazette September 11, 1820 page 2, column 2 as factual and the date that Captain Thomas Beale Sr. was buried in the Protestant Cemetery in Jefferson Parish, New Orleans, Louisiana.

I item here that is not talked about is that Celeste Beale was a Catholic. That is that if it was Captain Thomas Beale he would be in the Catholic graveyard Louis 1 and not in a Protestant Cemetery in Jefferson Parish that was not a Parish until 1825.

I see, if she was Catholic there is no way he was in a Protestant grave. That was not Capain Thomas Beale that died in 1820!

 

[Cryptography]

You have the floor.
So what in 1829 was "so darn important" in Richmond?
...and while you are at it, who was the famous captive in Brazil that you mentioned but never followed up?
You are very good at leaving these open ended statement, full of sound and fury, but in the end signify nothing more than "I know something the rest of you don't".
As with all the theories presented concerning the Beale Papers, NO hard real proof exists that any part of the story actually ever happened.

Funny how you keep repeating yourself. Are you clicking your heels together as you type that?

 

[ECS]

Funny how you keep repeating yourself...

Funny how you have never presented any hard evidence that proves that anything in the 1885 Beale Papers actually occurred as written.

 

[bigscoop]

You have the floor.
So what in 1829 was "so darn important" in Richmond?
...and while you are at it, who was the famous captive in Brazil that you mentioned but never followed up?
You are very good at leaving these open ended statement, full of sound and fury, but in the end signify nothing more than "I know something the rest of you don't".
As with all the theories presented concerning the Beale Papers, NO hard real proof exists that any part of the story actually ever happened.

Captive? I don't think I said anything about a "captive" in Brazil.
Important in Richmond? Uh...perhaps a branch of the previously referenced corporation, for one thing.

"You are very good at leaving these open ended statement, full of sound and fury, but in the end signify nothing more than "I know something the rest of you don't".

I don't know, seems I was starting to tell quite a bit until one individual started to protest my doing so by telling me that everything I was starting to explain was somehow wrong. So, questions became the order of explanation so this individual could tell me what he really knew regarding what I was attempting to explain. So far that individual hasn't been able to answer a single question, now this same individual is complaining that I'm not telling enough. Some people you just can't satisfy no matter what you do.

And since you enjoy and rely on online resources so much, see if you can possibly start making a few corporate connections here:
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/g-graham.htm

 

[ECS]

Captive? I don't think I said anything about a "captive" in Brazil.
Important in Richmond? Uh...perhaps a branch of the previously referenced corporation, for one thing...

You mentioned that the KEY is "BRAZIL", who or what was in exiled there. The made a vague reference to Mathew "Mexico" Sherman's ship TOPEDO, owned by Patterson's Canton Co of Baltimore.

 

[bigscoop]

You mentioned that the KEY is "BRAZIL", who or what was in exiled there. The made a vague reference to Mathew "Mexico" Sherman's ship TOPEDO, owned by Patterson's Canton Co of Baltimore.

The struggling "Mexico" leadership was operating out of South America, not out of Mexico, as many assume. Look, there was a lot going on during the period and none of it could have been possible without a means of financing it all, this all going back to that huge monied corporation, the Second Bank of America. The second bank allowed for many avenues of Governmental response and financial access that otherwise couldn't be accessed, controlled, and maintained. In other words, it allowed for "a lot" of "covert" dealings, for lack of a better word. Beale, we are told, was involved in an "enterprise" where the "flame was worth the candle"....but those candles and the matches to light them have to be paid for and the intensity of the flame has to be controlled. The second bank allowed for a great deal of it.

To give you a better idea on just how complex all of this research has been, and as to just how complex the working's of this bank truly was, of those 1500 foreign investors most of them were......British.

 

[bigscoop]

The Second Bank's 20 year charter ran from 1816 to 1836. In the Laffite memoirs we are informed that a corporation was formed in 1816, the particular enterprise that he and his associates were involved in adopting the motto, "Construct, Explore, Colonize." almost immediately he relocates to Galveston Island at the only remaining port in the disputed territory.

In 1818 George Graham is sent into the region on secret mission by request of James Monroe, but what most people don't know is that during George Graham's visit he also discussed the issues of banking and loans, and also, and here it comes......he also tried to get Lallemand to agree to America authority and jurisdiction over his settlement. This is also consistent with the "Construct, Explore, Colonize" motto that can be applied international law and to the claiming of disputed regions, and in this case it all had to do with establishing additional American presence and foothold in the disputed territory. George Graham was an interim Secretary of War who also held very direct and intimate connection to the Second Bank of America, so much so that he would be appointed President of the Washington branch. And all of this from a guy who often referred to as being a "troubleshooter for the war department."

But there is even more....remember those 1500 foreign investors, and especially those British investors, well, who do you think was instrumental in arranging treaty with the British? How bout, George Graham. Ironically, within just a few months of Graham's visit to Galveston Island we have report of a large amount of wealth coming from Galveston Island and also the first Beale deposit, all of these dates falling in perfect chronological order and also with Graham's visit, or "secret mission."

So perhaps now you can gather a better general understanding and added insight into this extremely complex corporation and some of it's business dealings.