Why the visit?

O

Old Silver

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I think it's almost certain that a man calling himself Thomas Beale did visit Robert Morriss at the times given in the Beale story. I think this is pretty well established by the fact that there were people alive at the time of the story's publishing that would have known if this was fabricated. An intelligent writer would not have attempted such a thing, and an unintelligent writer would not have gotten away with doing it. So the parts of the story that would have been known to the public (characters) (events in Lynchburg) is, at least for me, believable. There is, however, other parts of the Beale story, things that the general public would not have known about. Let's call these the secret parts of the story.

Did this visitor to Morriss' hotel engage in a hunting trip out west with 30+ men? Did they find gold and silver and transprt it to Virginia? Did Beale then leave coded papers in an iron box with Morriss so that the treasure could be recovered in the event none of them returned? These are the parts of the story that were not made known to the general public, and therefore gives reason to think that the treasure might be a fabrication. It wouldn't be the first time a writer used real people and events to weave a fictional tale. In fact, most, if not all, fiction has a grain of truth in it.


For the sake of argument, let's consider the treasure to be a hoax. My question is, why would Thomas Beale, whether or not that was his real name, have visited Robert Morriss in Lynchburg, Virginia? Why would he stay for months while two other's who were with him left for Richmond, which was their home? Why Lynchburg? Why Robert Morriss? You have to think it was something important. A man doesn't just show up out of nowhere, in the middle of nowhere, and stay for months, and not just once, but twice. If not treasure, then what was the reason for such a man, and his two friends from Richmond, visiting Lynchburg? Why did Beale not go on to Richmond with his friends? Why did Beale stay so long in Lynchburg? Why did he visit twice? Remember, these events almost certainly happened. So in this scenario we have the WHO (Thomas Beale and two friends); WHEN (1820 and 1822); WHAT (a fabricated treasure tale) and WHERE (Lynchburg, Virginia). So, on the visits to Lynchburg, the one unanswered question is WHY (?).
 

bigscoop

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Well, if as you propose, that a Beale did hold pre-planned visits at Morriss' for months on different occasions, then I would personally assume that he had good reason for pre-selecting that general location. I have never bought into the "treasure/mine" story as there would have been much safer and much easier legal means for insuring everyone's fair share, etc.
 

OP
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Old Silver

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Well, if as you propose, that a Beale did hold pre-planned visits at Morriss' for months on different occasions, then I would personally assume that he had good reason for pre-selecting that general location. I have never bought into the "treasure/mine" story as there would have been much safer and much easier legal means for insuring everyone's fair share, etc.

I can't understand why a writer would falsely claim that a Man named Thomas Beale stayed that long at the Hotel, when there were plenty of people around who could have called him on it. This man was not ordinary, so it's not likely that people would have forgotten him. Whether or not it was pre-planned is part of the question WHY. It seems strange that this would have happened and not have been planned. A man from nowhere shows up in the middle of nowhere, at two different times, and stays for long periods of time. He could have gone on to Richmond, which would have been a better choice for a place to stay. So why Lynchburg, two different times, and for long periods?
 

Rebel - KGC

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INTERESTING questions... HOWEVER! There are NO HISTORICAL documents "on file" indicating TJB's "visits" to Robert MORRIS's HOME (aka... WASHINGTON HOUSE, WASHINGTON INN); MORRIS's home was stated to be at the HEAD of MAIN STREET in OLD Lynchburg, Va. ("ROUGHLY" where Texas Inn is today, at the corner of Main & 5th Street). On 5th Street are several old Inns still standing, including one that Thomas Jefferson & General "Andy" Jackson dined together in; 1816... after the War of 1812. WASHINGTON HOTEL wasn't built until 1823; Robert MORRIS was MANAGER. Lynchburg, Va. FACTS! :coffee2:
 

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O

Old Silver

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INTERESTING questions... HOWEVER! There are NO HISTORICAL documents "on file" indicating TJB's "visits" to Robert MORRIS's HOME (aka... WASHINGTON HOUSE, WASHINGTON INN); MORRIS's home was stated to be at the HEAD of MAIN STREET in OLD Lynchburg, Va. ("ROUGHLY" where Texas Inn is today, at the corner of Main & 5th Street). On 5th Street are several old Inns still standing, including one that Thomas Jefferson & General "Andy" Jackson dined together in; 1816... after the War of 1812. WASHINGTON HOTEL wasn't built until 1823; Robert MORRIS was MANAGER. Lynchburg, Va. FACTS! :coffee2:

The people alive in 1885, who were also alive in 1820 would be a witness, either for, or against.
 

bigscoop

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There are certain aspects of the story that, (if wealth was indeed transferred overland from west to east), would have required a lot of prior planning and arrangements with capable sources, this even being more true if one was wishing to keep their business affairs a secret.
 

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Old Silver

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So...? This is 2016; NOTHING in writing, in REAL Lyncvhburg, Va. HISTORY... I did my R & I on it.

And did you find anyone in 1885 saying the story was false? There were people there at that time who would have known, because they were around in 1820. Common sense tells us that an intelligent writer would have known this fact, and the writer of the pamphlet actually said there were people from that time still around. Why did no one expose the story as false?
 

franklin

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And did you find anyone in 1885 saying the story was false? There were people there at that time who would have known, because they were around in 1820. Common sense tells us that an intelligent writer would have known this fact, and the writer of the pamphlet actually said there were people from that time still around. Why did no one expose the story as false?

Good question. Also why was there no one writing in the newspaper about it being a false story or a dime novel?
 

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Old Silver

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Good question. Also why was there no one writing in the newspaper about it being a false story or a dime novel?

Exactly. We hear a lot about the absence of evidence for the story being true, but what about the absence of evidence for it being false. There were plenty of people around that could have exposed the story.
 

Rebel - KGC

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Well, what we DO know, is that the Washington HOTEL was built in 1823 (FACT), with Robert MORRIS (ex-Mayor -1813), being the MANAGER (FACT). By 1822, TJB & Associates had already "made their deposits"; did they help with the building of the Washington HOTEL...? Hmmmm...
 

franklin

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Well, what we DO know, is that the Washington HOTEL was built in 1823 (FACT), with Robert MORRIS (ex-Mayor -1813), being the MANAGER (FACT). By 1822, TJB & Associates had already "made their deposits"; did they help with the building of the Washington HOTEL...? Hmmmm...

Well I could argue with you till I was blue in the face with your (FACT). The Washington Inn was built in tribute to General George Washington and it was built before 1818. I have a copy of the contract RM signed for a ten year period from 1818 to 1828. I also have the Debtors Prison description in 1819 saying it was standing. I would say that (FACT) about being built in 1823 is wrong. The historian was simply wrong in her research. I also have a photo of the Washington Inn.
 

OP
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Old Silver

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Well, what we DO know, is that the Washington HOTEL was built in 1823 (FACT), with Robert MORRIS (ex-Mayor -1813), being the MANAGER (FACT). By 1822, TJB & Associates had already "made their deposits"; did they help with the building of the Washington HOTEL...? Hmmmm...

Could be.
I'm thinking that, just maybe, the teller of the story was saying that Robert Morriss leased a place that was to be known as the Washington Hotel when the story was being told (1885). It was 1885 when the story was told, so people would have known the place by that name.
 

Rebel - KGC

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franklin, yes it WAS Washington Inn/House in 1818 at Robert MORRIS's HOME! There is NO error in the 1823 date for the building of Washington HOTEL; it is in several REAL history of Lynchburg, Va. books, papers, etc. on Robert MORRIS! YOUR emphasis is on Washington INN, that is CORRECT! PROOF from Beale PAPERS Pamphlet...? TJB's letter to Robert MORRIS; "St. Louis, Mo.; May 9th, 1822... Robt. MORRIS, Esq. (Honorary title for EX-MAYOR)... My ESTEEMED Friend:- Ever since leaving my comfortable quarters At your HOME, I have been journeying...". (p. 11 of Beale PAPERS Pamphlet/p. 32 of THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY by PV... RIP). I stand by my R & I!
 

franklin

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Robert Morris was moving around and renting out his house at that time. Maybe he and his family moved in to the Washington Inn.
 

bigscoop

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I still contend that the story was "likely" written to entertain the curiosities of two entirely different audiences, those with knowledge of the true events and those without, the later being the general public. This is the only remaining scenario that addresses all of the accuracies and the discrepancies in the narration, the author being fully aware of the true events, this including the contents of the "real" ciphers. As I see it this is the only remaining scenario left if there's any truth behind the narration.
 

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TN_Guest1523

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INTERESTING questions... HOWEVER! There are NO HISTORICAL documents "on file" indicating TJB's "visits" to Robert MORRIS's HOME (aka... WASHINGTON HOUSE, WASHINGTON INN); MORRIS's home was stated to be at the HEAD of MAIN STREET in OLD Lynchburg, Va. ("ROUGHLY" where Texas Inn is today, at the corner of Main & 5th Street). On 5th Street are several old Inns still standing, including one that Thomas Jefferson & General "Andy" Jackson dined together in; 1816... after the War of 1812. WASHINGTON HOTEL wasn't built until 1823; Robert MORRIS was MANAGER. Lynchburg, Va. FACTS! :coffee2:

In 1816 Jackson gave a sword to Captain Thomas Beale, if Jackson knew Morriss that would be the link to Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans . The two talked about a lot after the War . Captain Beale and Jackson had property in Mississippi not but a stones throw of each other . If Jackson knew Robert Morriss as we see in the Papers, We have our link .
 

Rebel - KGC

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COULDA been called Washington HOUSE (boarding "over-niters" +) and INN (place to EAT!)... dunno. FIRST B & B (Bed & Breakfast) in Lynchburg, Va. ???
 

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