Need to find documented proof of Beale Papers Authenticity

[franklin]

With a huge population in Lynchburg, Va at the turn of the century surely there is someone, somebody in Lynchburg, Va that kept a diary during the years 1885 to 1902. With 1885 being the year the Beale Papers were published for sale in the Lynchburg, Va area and 1902 being the year that Clayton Hart went and talked to James Beverly Ward. There has got to be someone within the "FAMILY" that kept a diary or journal. Let us see if we can find that diary. I know for a fact Peter Viemeister had a diary of James Beverly Ward, I held it in my hands. Rebel KGC get in touch with his wife and see if we can read that diary.

Peter kept the diary back in the far corner of the right hand back room. That is where he kept his printer and everything. Is the store still there or has it closed?

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Wish I could; Cindy is not in Bedford, anymore. I think she moved up north to be near their son, Ben... I think it was Michigan. Knowing PV, IF... he had the diary, he PROBABLY donated it to the Bedford City/County Historical Society; he WAS President of it at one time, and PROBABLY had "access" to "family SECRETS"... WE CAN ONLY DREAM ABOUT. I think PV knew MORE than he "let on".

 

[franklin]

Check at the museum to see to whom he donated his books to?

 

[Old Silver]

Why would anyone log into a diary anything pertaining to what happened in 1885? 1817-1822 I can understand, but 1885 was simply when the story was published.

 

[audigger53]

Why would anyone log into a diary anything pertaining to what happened in 1885?

Only if they were upset about the story. IMO

 

[Old Silver]

Why would anyone log into a diary anything pertaining to what happened in 1885?

Only if they were upset about the story. IMO

But wouldn't you make such a thing public? If anyone alive in 1885 had known that Beale was a fictional character, they would have come forth to expose the lie. Nothing has been shown of anyone doing that. There is a claim of such, but it's a false claim, with nothing to show. My research has shown that there were people alive in 1885 that were alive, and of age, in 1820. These people would have known whether or not there had been a man calling himself Thomas Beale who stayed at the Inn of Robert Morriss in 1820 and 1822. Wouldn't these people have made public what they knew, instead of hiding it in a diary?

BTW, the people I'm referring to are not the families of those mentioned in the Beale story.

 

[ECS]

... My research has shown that there were people alive in 1885 that were alive, and of age, in 1820. These people would have known whether or not there had been a man calling himself Thomas Beale who stayed at the Inn of Robert Morriss in 1820 and 1822. Wouldn't these people have made public what they knew, instead of hiding it in a diary?
BTW, the people I'm referring to are not the families of those mentioned in the Beale story.

Well, as you are fond of demanding from others, show proof of these "people who would have known" and name names. or is this just supposition conjecture on your part?

 

[austin]

Why? Unless you plan to write a paper to get your PhD, you don't need primary source materials. What you need to do is find someone to write a computer program to analyze those codes and truly solve them. I am not a fan of this stuff, hope you find what you are looking for and so on. But use common sense. You are not the first to come up with this idea. I'm quite sure people, universities and museums have done the same. Use technology and think outside the box. None of my business, but do it the easy way...

 

[Old Silver]

Well, as you are fond of demanding from others, show proof of these "people who would have known" and name names. or is this just supposition conjecture on your part?

My statement is about no one having proof of claims, such as a family objecting to names being used in the Beale story. Such claims require proof.
I have proof that quite a few people of 1820 were still living in 1885. It's nothing secret, just things you can look up on your own.

 

[ECS]

... If anyone alive in 1885 had known that Beale was a fictional character, they would have come forth to expose the lie...

If the Beale Papers was known as a fictional adventure/treasure dime novel with play along parlor entertainment ciphers, it would be understood that Thomas J Beale in the story was a fictional character, and no need to "expose a lie".
As for coming forth, the families of Witcher, Clay, and Coles did come forth and objected to their ancestors' name being used in the dime novel pamphlet.
There is a link concerning this posted on another thread.

 

[Old Silver]

If the Beale Papers was known as a fictional adventure/treasure dime novel with play along parlor entertainment ciphers, it would be understood that Thomas J Beale in the story was a fictional character, and no need to "expose a lie".
As for coming forth, the families of Witcher, Clay, and Coles did come forth and objected to their ancestors' name being used in the dime novel pamphlet.
There is a link concerning this posted on another thread.

You contradict yourself. How do you justify line one with like 2? Give them enough rope...

Anyway, I'm not referring to the families of Witcher, Clay, and Coles.

 

[ECS]

My statement is about no one having proof of claims, such as a family objecting to names being used in the Beale story. Such claims require proof.
I have proof that quite a few people of 1820 were still living in 1885. It's nothing secret, just things you can look up on your own.

Of course there were people from 1820 still living in 1885 Lynchburg, but whether or not they had knowledge of Beale, Morriss, or anything in the Beale Papers is quite a different matter, and without documentation, not relevant to the discussion, just useless speculation.

 

[Old Silver]

Of course there were people from 1820 still living in 1885 Lynchburg, but whether or not they had knowledge of Beale, Morriss, or anything in the Beale Papers is quite a different matter, and without documentation, not relevant to the discussion, just useless speculation.

Without documentation, not relevant to the discussion, just useless speculation, until it's something that YOU want to believe. It's like another poster has said, people will believe whatever they want to be true. That includes you.

Beale was famous in the area from 1820-1822, so yeah, people would have known. Or if that wasn't true, then they would have know that too. Get it?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

With a huge population in Lynchburg, Va at the turn of the century surely there is someone, somebody in Lynchburg, Va that kept a diary during the years 1885 to 1902. With 1885 being the year the Beale Papers were published for sale in the Lynchburg, Va area and 1902 being the year that Clayton Hart went and talked to James Beverly Ward. There has got to be someone within the "FAMILY" that kept a diary or journal. Let us see if we can find that diary. I know for a fact Peter Viemeister had a diary of James Beverly Ward, I held it in my hands. Rebel KGC get in touch with his wife and see if we can read that diary.

Peter kept the diary back in the far corner of the right hand back room. That is where he kept his printer and everything. Is the store still there or has it closed?

PV's Hamilton store was closed down, after his "passing"; a PRIVATE Counseling Biz was there for a period of time. Now Patrick Henry Boys/Girls Public Counseling Office... yes, there is where his computer, etc. was... in his closest was a BIG old CSA map of Bedford/Montvale (Buford's), and other stuff. WHERE did it all go...? Dunno.

 

[ECS]

You contradict yourself. How do you justify line one with like 2? Give them enough rope...

Anyway, I'm not referring to the families of Witcher, Clay, and Coles.

Are you referring to fictional families to prove your statement about Beale?
How do you justify any of your claims?
Looks like you don't have enough rope.

 

[Old Silver]

Are you referring to fictional families to prove your statement about Beale?
How do you justify any of your claims?
Looks like you don't have enough rope.

Am I referring to fictional families? One way to find out for yourself. Anyone can do it.

 

[Old Silver]

Of course there were people from 1820 still living in 1885 Lynchburg, but whether or not they had knowledge of Beale, Morriss, or anything in the Beale Papers is quite a different matter, and without documentation, not relevant to the discussion, just useless speculation.

IF you have found a family who objected to the names of their ancestors being used in the Beale story, how does that proof that the Beale story isn't true? That would only proove that those people didn't believe it, and we already know there are many who don't believe it. I mean, if we're talking here about things without documentation, and just useless speculation...

 

[ECS]

Without documentation, not relevant to the discussion, just useless speculation, until it's something that YOU want to believe. It's like another poster has said, people will believe whatever they want to be true. That includes you.

Beale was famous in the area from 1820-1822, so yeah, people would have known. Or if that wasn't true, then they would have know that too. Get it?

You do get that the Beale Papers was written in 1884/1885 and not in the 1820's?

60 years after the duel with copyright owner Ward's grandfather, so the name Thomas Beale would be remembered as part of the local lore- nothing less, nothing more- and the Beale character in the job pamphlet is "Thomas J Beale".
You know for a fact that Beale was famous in Lynchburg between 1820-1822?
He was known in New Orleans for his Beale Rifles Militia during the Battle of New Orleans, as owner of the Planters & Merchants Hotel on 10 Canal Street, and his Uptown Plantation, and his death in New Orleans, September 1820.
Do you need additional rope?

 

[ECS]

Am I referring to fictional families? One way to find out for yourself. Anyone can do it.

Yes, they can.

 

[Old Silver]

You do get that the Beale Papers was written in 1884/1885 and not in the 1820's?

60 years after the duel with copyright owner Ward's grandfather, so the name Thomas Beale would be remembered as part of the local lore- nothing less, nothing more- and the Beale character in the job pamphlet is "Thomas J Beale".
You know for a fact that Beale was famous in Lynchburg between 1820-1822?
He was known in New Orleans for his Beale Rifles Militia during the Battle of New Orleans, as owner of the Planters & Merchants Hotel on 10 Canal Street, and his Uptown Plantation, and his death in New Orleans, September 1820.
Do you need additional rope?

Well, it depends. IF the story is true, then part of it was written in the 1820's, and part of it was written 1862-1885. The point is, none of us have shown proof for it being true, or for it being false.