Rethinking The "Possible" Mason Ties

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bigscoop

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Consider the following;


There are three main characters involved with the narration, Morriss, Ward, and a Thomas J. Beale. Two of these characters reside in the Lynchburg area, the third, and the only verified man with the correct name during the entire era, lives just 90 miles down the road in Richmond, the exact city where our unknown author interrupted his interviews with Morriss due to important business affairs in that same city. On top of this we can place Ward in that same city with at least some measure of frequency. Robert Morriss, James Ward, and a Thomas J. Beale are the three main characters attached to the narration, the only three main characters.


Now disregarding the possibility of any truth in the alluring details so as not to get sidetracked by those temptations and uncertain debates, it could be that Morriss told Ward the details in compliance to his agreed selecting someone and passing the torch if required, just as outlined in the narration, and then Ward, after hearing the details, departed for Richmond to look up that Thomas J. Beale, if he didn't already know of him?


Another possibility is that this Thomas J. Beale went searching for Morriss on the heals of something he already had information about and that he was the one who had held interview with Morriss in search of more details?


What is interesting is the “second year of the confederate war” statement, this being the same year that Morriss became ill and passed away, the details of those interviews also being consistent with the terms Morriss has allegedly agreed to, that again being the selection of someone capable to carry the task if he became unable. This would then suggest that he had possibly passed his tale onto Ward, who then possibly, after hearing the details, set out in pursuit of the Richmond, T. J. Beale.


“[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]Curiously enough, he never adverted to his family or to his antecedents, nor did I question him concerning them, as I would have done had I dreamed of the interest that in the future would attach to his name.”[/FONT][FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times] [/FONT] “If”, and I only say “if”, the author entered this information bearing its importance to the narration, and “if” Ward did set out in pursuit of the Thomas J. Beale of Richmond, then what might this tell us about the Thomas J. Beale of Richmond?


Additionally, the author also references Richmond a second time when he speaks of the men who had accompanied Beale to his place of business, decidedly revealing that they had departed for home near Richmond. But how did Morriss know this, which he apparently did? Now we even have the other alleged party members located near Richmond. Suddenly there are many aspects of the narration pointing at Richmond, and who can be found in Richmond? The only verified Thomas J. Beale of the era, that's who.


In the early 1860's Ward joined the Dove Lodge in Richmond, the region that would become Jackson Ward, where alderman Thomas J. Beale survided, also had a Mason Lodge as early as 1811. And here's another interesting note in regards to a possible Mason connection, men of color were masons and by 1903 the Grand Lodge of Masons of Virginia even had a black pastor, a man who had been a mason since at least 1894. Still doubt that Ward possibly knew this Thomas J. Beale?


In 1884 Thomas J. Beale of Richmond would have been around 61 years of age, almost the exact same age as J. B. Ward. Ward spent time in Richmond, as obviously did Thomas J. Beale who became a serving district alderman at least by 1884, if not before? An honor not likely bestowed upon him unless he had been part of that district for quite some time. So was he there in the 1860's? Very, very possible, of not actually very likely.


So what is the missing link in all of this? It is that direct connection between Ward and this Thomas J. Beale, something I have yet to locate but feel certain it exist, somewhere?


Now in all of the above it is interesting to note that Jackson Ward was a black, or free man of color, region long before it was ever officially titled Jackson Ward, and in fact black leaders were already designing and building structures in the area as early as 1811. Also, the general description of the Thomas J. Beale in the narration is that of a man of color, which our Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was. Sadly, we do not know who his parents were but we would certainly love to.


And last but not least, in what years did Ward serve as a surveyor and during that time was he ever at task in the Jackson Ward area district? If so, and especially in the 1880's, then it becomes a fair bet that he would have held some interaction with that district's aldermen, or in this case, Thomas J. Beale of Jackson Ward. But....... :dontknow:
 

Rebel - KGC

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Consider the following;


There are three main characters involved with the narration, Morriss, Ward, and a Thomas J. Beale. Two of these characters reside in the Lynchburg area, the third, and the only verified man with the correct name during the entire era, lives just 90 miles down the road in Richmond, the exact city where our unknown author interrupted his interviews with Morriss due to important business affairs in that same city. On top of this we can place Ward in that same city with at least some measure of frequency. Robert Morriss, James Ward, and a Thomas J. Beale are the three main characters attached to the narration, the only three main characters.


Now disregarding the possibility of any truth in the alluring details so as not to get sidetracked by those temptations and uncertain debates, it could be that Morriss told Ward the details in compliance to his agreed selecting someone and passing the torch if required, just as outlined in the narration, and then Ward, after hearing the details, departed for Richmond to look up that Thomas J. Beale, if he didn't already know of him?


Another possibility is that this Thomas J. Beale went searching for Morriss on the heals of something he already had information about and that he was the one who had held interview with Morriss in search of more details?


What is interesting is the “second year of the confederate war” statement, this being the same year that Morriss became ill and passed away, the details of those interviews also being consistent with the terms Morriss has allegedly agreed to, that again being the selection of someone capable to carry the task if he became unable. This would then suggest that he had possibly passed his tale onto Ward, who then possibly, after hearing the details, set out in pursuit of the Richmond, T. J. Beale.


“Curiously enough, he never adverted to his family or to his antecedents, nor did I question him concerning them, as I would have done had I dreamed of the interest that in the future would attach to his name.” “If”, and I only say “if”, the author entered this information bearing its importance to the narration, and “if” Ward did set out in pursuit of the Thomas J. Beale of Richmond, then what might this tell us about the Thomas J. Beale of Richmond?


Additionally, the author also references Richmond a second time when he speaks of the men who had accompanied Beale to his place of business, decidedly revealing that they had departed for home near Richmond. But how did Morriss know this, which he apparently did? Now we even have the other alleged party members located near Richmond. Suddenly there are many aspects of the narration pointing at Richmond, and who can be found in Richmond? The only verified Thomas J. Beale of the era, that's who.


In the early 1860's Ward joined the Dove Lodge in Richmond, the region that would become Jackson Ward, where alderman Thomas J. Beale survided, also had a Mason Lodge as early as 1811. And here's another interesting note in regards to a possible Mason connection, men of color were masons and by 1903 the Grand Lodge of Masons of Virginia even had a black pastor, a man who had been a mason since at least 1894. Still doubt that Ward possibly knew this Thomas J. Beale?


In 1884 Thomas J. Beale of Richmond would have been around 61 years of age, almost the exact same age as J. B. Ward. Ward spent time in Richmond, as obviously did Thomas J. Beale who became a serving district alderman at least by 1884, if not before? An honor not likely bestowed upon him unless he had been part of that district for quite some time. So was he there in the 1860's? Very, very possible, of not actually very likely.


So what is the missing link in all of this? It is that direct connection between Ward and this Thomas J. Beale, something I have yet to locate but feel certain it exist, somewhere?


Now in all of the above it is interesting to note that Jackson Ward was a black, or free man of color, region long before it was ever officially titled Jackson Ward, and in fact black leaders were already designing and building structures in the area as early as 1811. Also, the general description of the Thomas J. Beale in the narration is that of a man of color, which our Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was. Sadly, we do not know who his parents were but we would certainly love to.


And last but not least, in what years did Ward serve as a surveyor and during that time was he ever at task in the Jackson Ward area district? If so, and especially in the 1880's, then it becomes a fair bet that he would have held some interaction with that district's aldermen, or in this case, Thomas J. Beale of Jackson Ward. But....... :dontknow:
WRONG info on RM; he DIED in 1863; NOT in the 2nd Year of the "CW". Dove Lodge # 51 was NEVER in Jackson Ward... Grand Lodge of Virginia has the info on Dove Lodge, & it was an "ALL Whites" Lodge; NEVER was "PRINCE HALL"...
 

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Cryptography

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Your dates are a bit off. Are we not looking for a Thos Beale born in 1700's?
 

ECS

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Another theory of fiction to prove a dime novel of fiction to be true. :laughing7:
...and the beat goes on...
...or is that the Beale goes on ! :happysmiley:
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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WRONG info on RM; he DIED in 1863; NOT in the 2nd Year of the "CW". Dove Lodge # 51 was NEVER in Jackson Ward... Grand Lodge of Virginia has the info on Dove Lodge, & it was an "ALL Whites" Lodge; NEVER was "PRINCE HALL"...

Agreed! As for the date of Morriss' death, merely suggesting that due to failing health he may have passed the torch to someone else, as the narration suggest was part of the agreement. As for the mason lodges, I agree too that the Dove wasn't ever the Prince Hall, however, there is more then enough evidence to determine that "there were both black (men of color) and white masons" and that this dates well back into the 1800's and before. (Men of color carry a very broad population.) What you might have some insight into Reb is this......even though there was standing segregation between lodge's/race, was their any differences in mason principles? A Mason is a Mason is a brother, correct, or wrong?
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Another theory of fiction to prove a dime novel of fiction to be true. :laughing7:
...and the beat goes on...
...or is that the Beale goes on ! :happysmiley:

This a completely inaccurate perception that you can't seem to break away from regardless how many times the true intent is explained to you. :laughing7: So, yet again, in bold, I will try once more;

"I have absolutely no concern if the the story be true or false, it will be whatever it is in the end. All I am searching for is the true nature and source of the tale. At present the complete fiction theory still stands as the strongest theory on the table, however, other possibilities do exist and until all of these other reasonable possibilities have been researched to satisfactory/determining end then they must remain on the table. True, fiction, I could care less either way." :laughing7: :notworthy:
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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ECS, let me ask you a question, just for giggles, and just for the time being.

What would your thoughts be if I could prove/verify/confirm that Ward knew the T.J. Beale of Richmond for quite some time before the publication of the narration? Just curious what you thoughts would be then? :laughing7:
 

ECS

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Considering that "knowledge of this affair was confined to a very limited circle-to the writer's immediate family, and to one old and valued friend" you would have to provide serious solid evidence to that effect.
 

Rebel - KGC

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Agreed! As for the date of Morriss' death, merely suggesting that due to failing health he may have passed the torch to someone else, as the narration suggest was part of the agreement. As for the mason lodges, I agree too that the Dove wasn't ever the Prince Hall, however, there is more then enough evidence to determine that "there were both black (men of color) and white masons" and that this dates well back into the 1800's and before. (Men of color carry a very broad population.) What you might have some insight into Reb is this......even though there was standing segregation between lodge's/race, was their any differences in mason principles? A Mason is a Mason is a brother, correct, or wrong?
Far as I know... Masonic "principles" are the same. Prince Hall Freemasons got their "charter" from the BRITS during the Revolution; BAD news for American PATRIOTS. White Freemasons got their "Charter" from the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania, I think; YET! GLP got THEIR "charter" from across the "little Pond" (da BRITS!)... SO! I think the Rituals, etc. are the "same", with some "changes" per each state Grand Lodge... HOWEVER! Inter-Lodge "visitations" are possible as long as your dues are current & you have your MEMBERSHIP Card. "JB" Ward was suspended for non-payment of his dues, during the CONFEDERATE WAR... HOWEVER. He could still "visit" Marshall Lodge & Hill City Lodge in Lynchburg, Va. as long as his Dove Lodge #51 dues were paid up. For example, My "home lodge" was in the Shenandoah Valley (dues paid up with Membership Card). As Worshipful Mason of my Lodge, I could go to the Lodge in Va. Beach for @ 3 days "training"... it was FUN!
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Considering that "knowledge of this affair was confined to a very limited circle-to the writer's immediate family, and to one old and valued friend" you would have to provide serious solid evidence to that effect.

And if I did provide that confirmed Ward and T.J. Beale connection?
 

ECS

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It would have to be a true solid undeniable connexion before I can consider answering that proposed question.
 

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