The First Texas coil situation...a guide of sorts....

[TheHunterGT]

(Please advise me of any corrections that need to be made via PM or in a reply...either way works. Then I can edit it ASAP with correct info. This is a work in progress.)

In this thread I am going to try to explain the "who/what/when/where/how" of the coil situation with First Texas metal detectors. If you do not know, First Texas is the parent company of....Bounty Hunter...Fisher... Teknetics.

Within those 3 sub-companies is a series of detectors that can interchange and swap coils. Almost all of these metal detectors run at the 7.69 to 7.8 khz range. They are often called the Frat Bros or Greek Series when talking about the Teknetics versions Alpha/Delta/Gamma/Omega. Think college fraternities. For the sake of conversation we can call all of these "Frats Bros" type detectors....

Some of these detectors from First Texas have a push-in connector called a DIN...while the others have a screw-on connector that is a "XLR type" for CB's radios and microphones. We will get into that towards the bottom when I show you what is needed to make your own connector so you can swap coils no matter the situation! WHEEEEEE!!!! First of all we will look at the "Frat Bros" type detectors from each company and get our ducks in a row.


I will put the type of coil in parenthesis (...)
Model # of coil in brackets [...]
Followed by "push" or "screw" indicating the type of connection.



1. Let's take a look at Bounty Hunter...

From Bounty Hunter we have 6 Detectors in the "Pro" line that will work...all running at 7.69khz to 7.8khz. (Note: The older 6.6khz Bounty Hunters will not work with anything in this thread)

Land Ranger Pro (11 inch DD) [11COIL-BH] push.....MAY HAVE COME WITH.....(8 inch concentric circular) [8COIL-7B13] push
Quick Draw Pro (10 inch concentric elliptical) [10COIL-BH] push
Lone Star Pro (8 inch concentric circular) [8COIL-7B13] push

Platinum (11 inch DD) [11COIL-BH] push
Titanium (8 inch concentric) [8COIL-7B13] push
Gold (8 inch concentric) [8COIL-7B13] push


2. Let's take a look at Teknetics...

Note: The Teknetics T2 is NOT compatible with anything in this thread.

This is where things get complicated. Some Teknetics have push-in coils...some have screw-on coils. The coils model # listed here are screw-on types except for the Eurotek which is push. It will up to YOU to check your detector obviously.

Alpha 2000 (8 inch concentric) [8COIL-7TEK] screw
Delta 4000 (8 inch concentric) [8COIL-7TEK].....MAY HAVE COME WITH.....(11 inch DD) [11COIL-TEK] screw
Gamma 6000 (8 inch concentric) [8COIL-7TEK].....MAY HAVE COME WITH.....(11 inch DD) [11COIL-TEK] screw
Omega 8500 (10 inch concentric eliptical) [10COIL-TEK] screw

EuroTek (8 inch concentric) [8COIL-7B13] push
EuroTek Pro (8 inch concentric) [8COIL-7TEK] screw.....MAY HAVE COME WITH.....(11 inch DD) [11COIL-TEK] screw

There is also a 5 in DD coil. It has a screw-on and push-in adapter. 5COIL-TEKB is the push....note the "B" at the end. 5COIL-TEK is the screw on.
There is also a 11 in DD coil. It has a screw-on and push-in adapter. 11COIL-TEKB is the push....note the "B" at the end. 11COIL-TEK is the screw on.

3. Let's take a look at Fisher...

Fisher is interesting/complicated as well....pay attention here.

The F5 had a 6-PIN DIN push-in....and screw-in versions. Make sure to check your type. I will be dealing with the screw-ons here...and may edit in the push-in styles later.

All of the New F11/F22/F44 series run elliptical concentrics....all screw-on.

So here are the 7.7 to 7.8 khz machines from Fisher....

F5 (screw types)...
(8 inch concentric) [8COIL-7B13F] screw
(10 inch concentric elliptical) [10COIL-F5F] screw
(5 inch DD) [5COIL-F5F] screw
(11 inch DD) [11COIL-F5F] screw

F5 (push types) (5 inch DD) [5COIL-F5] push (note no "F" at the end like the screw version "F5F") (THIS IS A 6-PIN 240 DEGREE)

F11 (7 inch concentric elliptical) [7COIL-RE-F] screw
F22 (9 inch concentric elliptical) [9COIL-EE] screw
F44 (11 inch concentric elliptical) [11COIL-EE] screw


Think we are done yet? The DD coils from these lower frequency Frat Bros/Greek Series detectors "can" work with the Gold Bug/G2/F19 platform that runs hotter at 19khz. (Note: The F19/Gold Bug/Pro/DP/G2 do NOT accept concentric coils. ONLY DD COILS. They are not truly "Frat Bros" type detectors...so results may vary. For true compatibility stick to the 7.69 to 7.8khz machines noted above.)

Here we will rundown those 19khz detectors as well however....just to be thorough.

Fisher Gold Bug (5 inch DD) [5COIL-GB] screw
Fisher Gold Bug Pro (5 inch DD) [5COIL-GB] screw
Fisher Gold Bug DP (11 inch DD) [11COIL-GB] screw
Fisher F19 (5X10 inch DD) [10COILDD-FRL] screw....MAY HAVE COME WITH....(5X10 inch DD) [10COILDD-GB] screw....MAY HAVE COME WITH....(11 inch DD) [11COIL-F5F] screw
Teknetics G2 (11 inch DD) [11COIL-TEK] screw

(There are probably a couple coils or even detectors that I missed or forgot or typo'ed.....please let me know via reply or PM so I can make corrections!)

Check post 2 for information on the actual connectors and how to make your own cross-over cables!

 

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[TheHunterGT]

Ok...now we will look at the connections on the coils and the housings. We will also go over parts needed to make our own adapters. If you do not know how to solder wiring...this is probably not the project for you.

There are 4 types of adapters we will need.....

240 degree 5-pin DIN Male (Fisher F5 is a 6-PIN)
240 degree 5-pin DIN Female (Fisher F5 is a 6-PIN)

XLR 5-pin Male
XLR 5-pin Female


Easy enough right? Wrong! There are many different styles of DIN and XLR....you MUST get the right one or you will have headaches. So let's elaborate....

1. The Push-On DIN stlye.....

The push-on cables are called DIN cables. They are easy to find all over the internet. You will want 240 Degree 5-pin male and female DINS. YOU MUST USE 240 DEGREE 5-PIN TYPES!!! 6-PIN if using a Fisher F5 with PUSH cable. I am unsure if the screw-ons for the F5 are 6-PIN as well.

Here they are from Land Ranger Pro....240 Degree 5-pin male and female. All the push-in detectors in post 1 look like this.

Notice the FEMALE end is a 6-pin...Many 5-pin DIN females will actually have the 6th pin disabled but are still called 5-pin. So if you order a 5-pin FEMALE and a 6-pin shows up....don't worry. Just do not solder the middle 6th pin.

HOWEVER....if you are dealing with a Fisher F5....you WANT 6-pin male and females.



When you buy them you want something that looks like this...where the metal ring of the MALE end slides right into the FEMALE end. The opposite ends will have solder posts.




1. The Screw-On XLR stlye.....

There are many XLR type and formations....so I advise you to Google "5-pin microphone" or "5-pin CB radio" to find these...as that is the connection we need. FEMALE and MALE yet again...they are usually 240 degree and not specified with degrees like the DINS. Notice the "pins" on these are a little bit beefier than the DIN type pins above.

Here they are on the Gold Bug....they will look like this on ALL the screw-on detectors in the first post.



If you want to buy your own...the MALES look like this....(notice the solder posts)



If you want to buy your own...the FEMALES look like this.



And then both of them side by side.....




That is about it...here is where YOU come into play....

Just start soldering your custom length of wire from MALE DIN to MALE XLR.....and....FEMALE DIN to FEMALE XLR.....post 1 to post 1....post 2 to post 2...etc etc.

It should work perfectly. Just shrink tube or tape the wiring and you have yourself a whole new world of coils.

Enjoy....I will post completed cables when finished.

 

[N5XTR]

Thank you for posting, I will be following this closely.

 

[TheHunterGT]

Thank you for posting, I will be following this closely.

My pleasure...I will post completed cables in about a week...but figured I'd put the info out for anybody else wanting to make their own.

Just some wires and some simple soldering skills...should be easy enough.

 

[Phantasman]

Nice job, HunterGT. You're the Dude.

 

[bowwinkles]

Hunter go ahead and make up a couple extra pin to slip and give them away as free samples of your work. I would like to be in line.

 

[TheHunterGT]

Nice job, HunterGT. You're the Dude.

Thanks man!

Hunter go ahead and make up a couple extra pin to slip and give them away as free samples of your work. I would like to be in line.

I will do a giveaway here on TNET and on my Youtube channel.

I bought enough to make 4 male to male and 4 female to female...in case I make mistakes.

I'm a pretty fair solderer and confidence is pretty high. Once this first batch is done I will probably buy some shrink tubing and make them look nice for batch 2. This first run will be electrical tape and not be the prettiest.

 

[bowwinkles]

I tried to order my coils from Kellyco but had to stop. Seems they have a policy that should they find out that you plan on using a like a Greek coil on a Fisher even though they are 100% compatible they will make a note that it may not be returned or exchanged or refunded once shipped. Other vendors have charts and are knowledgeable of end users need to use compatible coils for other machines, and do not have the "buy it and it is yours policy". Thanks to this thread we now also have a "go to" place for that data. The many years I have dealt with Kellyco, I was very disturbed in the lack of tact of the sales persons and their failure to even discuss anything outside of the material on their computer screen. This week they lost my business to another vendor.

 

[Phantasman]

That stinks, Bow. Kellyco is a large. maybe the largest, dealer. FTP engineers themselves tout using the different coils they make on different detectors they make as long as the plugs are compatible. Dave J even said that the compatible 6.6 and 7.8 KHZ plugs in just wouldn't work good on cross frequency inputs.

What Kelly is probably doing is saying that they won't take back 6.6 KHZ bought for a 7.8 KHZ machine or vice versa just because the plugs are the same and you didn't read up to realize that they don't work good. I can see that. If they are doing that with Greek coils on the new Fisher F series, they'd lose my business as well. I go with what FTP says, not Kelly.

Kelly is a good company for buying MAP detectors. But their dealing for Bounty Hunter products leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[TheHunterGT]

Yeah...if they are saying (for example) that you cannot use a Teknetics Greek screw-in coil on say a Fisher F44 screw-in? I would tell them to go fly a kite. They are obviously compatible to anybody in the know.

If they are saying what Phantasman said...and you cannot return a 6.6khz coil for a 7.8khz or vice-versa...I can understand that. They look almost identical and just plain do not work if not for the right machine. My Sharp Shooter 2 coil was identical to the Lone Star Pro coil.....but when swapped both would malfunction.

They need a big neon flashing icon on the vendors websites when it comes to this coil mess......old 6.6 coil....new 7.8 coil....screw on...push in...etc etc.....it is madness.

IMO First Texas is the one to "blame" here if we have to throw rocks. Why they made the coil situation so "screwy" is beyond me. (excuse the pun) They should have made an adapter or just stuck to the screw-on and raised the price by $2 on each Bounty Hunter machine. Problem solved.

I personally have never had issue with KellyCo...they actually have bent over backwards for me before. I will never buy a MAP detector from them...that is for sure. But they have always been nice and pleasant with me when purchasing other items.

For a while they had the best deal on a F44 anywhere...$349 with a Vulcan pointer and a Sawtooth digger.

Sorry to hear about your dealing though bowwinkles....I would not be happy either.

I bought my 5in coil for the LRP from Dennis at http://www.metaldetectors.com (an "s" at the end).....a vendor here.

Great guy...gave me a deal...and will take the time to chat with ya about the weather. Made me feel like a valued customer...that is for sure.

 

[bowwinkles]

I used the one with out the "S"

 

[TheHunterGT]

A fine choice as well...and IMO they have the best coil inventory there is. I wish they were vendors here....

 

[bowwinkles]

I needed answers and they spent time getting data for me. I went with the 10 inch elliptical for now and once we get some data on the 4 inch I may also do that. There was no hesitation to help and no return rules as there was with Kellyco.

 

[TheHunterGT]

I just received my 5in DD "push" coil for the Land Ranger Pro...as we all know it came off the F5 that has the push style....no adapter needed.

It is a 6-pin male DIN.....not a 5-pin male DIN like the Bounty Hunter and Teknetics push-in coils. My heart stopped....

Then I remembered the female ends on the detector housing is a 6-pin.

So I am unsure what the 6th pin on the early Fisher F5 did. I have read it was disabled actually....which is why all the other push styles are 5-Pin. Could be...I have no idea. I do know some 5-pin females are actually 6pin and the middle pin is simply disabled. They are still 240 degree style.

I have edited the top posts to correct the info for F5 users or anybody buying the FCOIL-F5....as apparently the early F5's were 6-pin.

Soooo.....the First Texas/Fisher 5in DD [FCOIL-F5] is a 6-pin DIN MALE...not a 5-PIN. If you have a 5-PIN DIN FEMALE part you bought...it will not work...you MUST use a 6-pin female for that F5 coil.

 

[bowwinkles]

To clarify what I said above about Kellyco. The salesman stated that they only had two coils that they list for the LRP a 8 and a 10 inch coils. He said if I ordered any other coil that was on my list as being 100% compatible and the same frequency that they would not allow it to be returned for any reason. The folks I finally ordered from has the 10 inch elliptical as the main replacement and that they recommend it to all inquiries such as mine. It will be here within a couple days.

 

[Top]

1. Let's take a look at Bounty Hunter...

(Note: The older 6.6khz Bounty Hunters will not work with anything in this thread)

Seriously though. Thanks for putting all of this info together as it will help in my future purchase decisions.

 

[TheHunterGT]

Prototype is done....made the female to female first. Placed the 11DD from the LRP on the Gold Bug and it worked perfectly.

Air tests on a silver quarter were less than the LRPs 12 inch marker....but hit around 10 inches. An improvement over the stock 5in DD.

ID was perfect as well...thank goodness. Something I noticed is the ID is dead on even when at whisper depths. Not used to that....it literally is a dead lock as soon as audio starts.

So it works...time to make the male to male and test the 5in GB coil on the LRP.

 

[TheHunterGT]

Round 2 with the male to male was terrible. The solder cups are so small the chisel tip I have will not work. My stubbornness took over and I melted 3 of 4 trying to get its fat butt to work....

I ordered a whole new solder iron with a fine point tip...and another DIN 5 pack. Delayed until next week sadly...

 

[Garrett424]

So are all of the Greek series coils interchangeable as long as they have the same connector; push on vs screw on??

I have a detector coming with the 10" concentric/ellipse coil and would like to try it on the Delta, which has the 8" concentric circular coil. Both machines have screw on connectors.

 

[Phantasman]

Yes. Your Omega and Delta coils are interchangeable. Dave Johnson explained the Fratbros process and coil interchanges before, though some on other forums.


Medium performance "entry level": most folks would rate the more recent Euroteks as offering more value for the money than the Delta. Might also look into Fisher F22 and the new Bounty Hunters that look kind of like the Delta and Eurotek. All these share somewhat similar circuitry, and differ primarily in feature set and what searchcoil they come with stock standard.

The discrimination software algorithms used in these machines is fairly similar to that used on our high performance machines, and customers familiar with metal detectors often remark that on targets less than 8 inches or so deep these machines deliver performance comparable to machines costing several times as much. Of course the more expensive machines still have their place for searching in locations where it's okay to dig with a shovel, and in gold prospecting which the under-$400 machines aren't much use for.

And......

The "legacy" searchcoils (corresponding roughly to the muffler-on-a-stick BH & Discovery models) are not compatible with the newer BH's which are in the same family as most of the low to midrange Teknetics and Fisher models. You do however have to make sure you're getting the correct connector.