Monterrey, Mexico & Skeleton Canyon

[carajou]

The alleged treasure that is part of the Skeleton Canyon story supposedly came from a robbery of banks and cathedrals in Monterrey, Mexico, in 1881. Several years ago, because of a lack of official or newspaper documentation on this incident (a large-scale series of robberies in a single town is not about to be forgotten by anyone), I came to the conclusion that this robbery did not take place at all, therefore no treasure.

But it still bugs me that the description in many of the stories matches the real estate around Portal, Arizona, and this tells me that the original writer of the story was there on the ground, if not involved with the men who were part of the outlaw gang at the time.

My questions are pretty simple...

1. Was Monterrey Mexico, or any other city or town in Mexico, robbed by anyone in 1881?

2. Are there any newspapers in Mexico or the bordering US states which were written at the time that could report this incident?

3. Is there anything by way of official documentation (police, etc) which reports this incident?

4. Could the Skeleton Canyon story be the end-result of a series of smaller robberies, and are these robberies documented?

This is the crux of the matter. Without that robbery, there is no treasure, and this kind of quid pro quo research also counts for every other treasure story out there. Unfortunately, it's also "put-up-or-shut-up". I know that's a pretty insulting phrase, but I'd rather be looking for something that's concrete, that can be found, rather than chasing down a story who's end result is nothing. And I'm sure most of you feel the same way, no matter what you're looking for.

[cptbil]

? ? Where do the Mexican Pesos that are found in the canyon, usually after a good storm, come from??

[carajou]

In Skeleton Canyon it is documented that Mexican smugglers and/or cattle drivers were ambushed and killed by members of the Clanton gang.? This was their modus operandi, with which they acquired stolen cattle to sell to the government and mining towns, and possibly make off with whatever valuables may have been there.? On 13 August 1881, Neuman Haynes "Old Man" Clanton was himself murdered the same way by a survivor of one such ambush, the killing taking place in nearby Guadalupe Canyon.

If you have gold bars that were found in Skeleton Canyon, and these bars had mint marks and numbers which can be traced to stolen gold from a particular city, then you would have documented proof.? The Mexican pesos which you say are sometimes found in Skeleton Canyon after a rainstorm do not prove that the Monterrey robbery took place.? All they can prove is that they were dropped sometime in the canyon.

[elkman13]

I know people who live in the Douglas area. I have been in Skeleton 3X with a detector and I yet to find a peso. I hear about them but yet to see one or talk to anyone who has found one. So how does anyone know there ever was one found?? I don't think there is a treasure. Hunts grave is on an old trail about 15-20 miles N-W of Skeleton. That I have seen.

[carajou]

From what I have read in the stories (and I stress the stories, as opposed to official sources), the following was "found":

1. Coins picked up on occasion within Skeleton Canyon;
2. A box of silver bars allegedly found in Skeleton Canyon about 1927;
3. Scattered coins picked up within Jack Wood Canyon in the Chiricahuas.

The principle story which I have used, and which others more or less follow, is an article written in the November 1951 issue of Desert Magazine by Weldon Heald, and since reprinted in a book titled Lost Gold and Silver Mines of the Southwest, by Eugene L. Conrotto (1991, previously Lost Desert Bonanzas, 1963).? Admittedly, I used this article primarily because of the burial description matching the Portal area.

In 1997, I met with Norm Scott and Jerry Lee, both of whom were treasure hunters and were interested in financing the search and recovery of this treasure (Scott wrote 100 Tons of Gold, about Victorio Peak), and they were the ones who asked the primary question: did the Monterrey robbery actually take place?? Now, we're not talking about the ambush in Skeleton Canyon that netted the outlaws a fortune; it's the sacking of banks and cathedrals in Monterrey by the Estrada gang that provided the treasure to begin with.? Before any recovery could take place, that question had to be researched and answered, and to this day, the answer is NO.? I have not received any proof whatsoever from historians or others in an official capacity from within Mexico or the states bordering Mexico, or the US State Department, that the Monterrey robbery had taken place during the time each of the stories said it did.

You simply cannot have that treasure, in that story, without that robbery.? It is that simple.

[cptbil]

Carajou:
If you have the time, I can furnish you with roughly 100 research,
all different, sources to check the story out more fully!
There is a lot of confusion between, The Monterrey Raid, The Treasure of Skeleton Canyon and The Davis Mnts Treasure!
And There is always, the supposed site of the burial, in New Mexico and another in the Big Bend Area!
Since I am not into this treasure, I'll gladly give you the research sources to check out!
But! Because of the number of references, I'll only send a few at a time!
YOU'll have FUN!
Just trying to even locate some of the "Sources" , as many of them a really obscure!
IE: " Old Bill Cole and His Loot" Gold Magazine, vol 2, No.1, pgs. 92-93, 1970! Western Publ. Austin, Tx.
Although, Come to think about it, I may have this Issue/magazine in my pile of Treasure Magazines, 1000+ of them!
BUT! Locating Sources....
Is all a part of the research game!
Let me know!

[carajou]

Always interested in this tale, true or not, and I have lots of time. Can you send it via email, or do you need a snail-mail addy?

[curly]

Ive dug in the desert canyons around Presidio, Texas bordering the Rio Grande with Mexico looking for this loot, as an outlaw named Davis was shot and killed there by Texas rangers in 1880 according, to my research. His lost grave is there among the ocotillo somewhere north of that settlement, as is the ranger's grave. I never found it bug I sure looked! So, I still believe the loot is in Texas, but thats a whole other story, as mentioned above.

But the fact that there is still no proof of a Monterrey Robbery is important for history's sake, yet not important as far as the "robbery" is concerned, as it was common for criminals north of the border during that time to cover their tracks regarding stolen property by flat out lying about the nature of the property and whereabouts of it (ie burial). I believe Hunts and Grounds, being such greenhorns, got handed a waybill by someone in C. Bills group in the last days of that posse sometime in 1882, and got clues to something they never saw but got second-hand from someone else who was there, and so the story got blown out of proportion from them and with each telling. Using Monterrey and stolen money from Mexico was a cover, I think, yet there had to be a treasure, or something taken from somewhere. Strangely, I have another tale of another outlaw in Texas who was killed in the plains of NM in 1886 and claimed he also buried Monterrey loot in Texas years ago, and also had a map folded up in a tube in his saddle, which was to a fifth of 80k in $20 gold pesos that matches this tale. Who got robbed and what got buried and from where is the mystery that wont be solved until the actual treasure site is found, and the landmarks located. Nobody yet has been able to do that....so the mystery lives on....curly

[cptbil]

Curly:
I know where in Texas that it was buried!
Atleast that is what a "researcher" told me, where it was !
He had been to the burial/cache site to check it, himself, but did not dig!
He has since died!
I haven't had the time to check out his location!
It's about 450 miles from here!
More importantly, you can drive to his "location"!

[carajou]

There's just lot's of twists and mysteries in this tale...like a bad Scooby Doo moment!

One of the stories I read was Coronado's Children, which has a chapter on the Moneterry robbery, and has the bandits leading a 300-mule pack train with the loot towards the Texas border and the Davis Mountains. ?I rule this story out primarily because of four individuals:

1. ?Zwing Hunt may be the individual buried in a grave at the entry to Hunt Canyon, on the west side of the Chiricahuas in Arizona. ?According to the stories, Hunt and his brother (Hugh) escaped from custody in Tombstone, and got as far as the Chiricahuas before he died from wounds received earlier. ?I personally have not seen this grave, so I can't confirm it.

2. ?Billy Grounds is buried at Boot Hill Cemetery, Tombstone, with a date of March 1882. ?He died of a shotgun blast to the head while fighting a posse sent after him for the murder of a man in Shakspeare. ?Hunt was wounded in the same battle. ?Deputy John Gillespie also died in the fight, and he is buried at Boot Hill as well.

3. ?Jim Hughes also figured in the robbery at Monterrey. ?He is documented as being part of the posse sent after Wyatt Earp, Doc Holiday, and others by Sheriff John Behan of Cochise County, Arizona, in 1882, or another posse sent out for a different fugitive in nearby Bisbee. ?This is mentioned in Wyatt Earp's autobiography.

4. ?William Brocius, aka "Curly Bill", died in a gun battle with the Earp faction in 1882, at Iron Springs, deep inside the Chiricahua Mountains. ?His grave may be listed on a topo map of the area (I also did not see this grave).

There is another grave in the area that has nothing to do with Skeleton Canyon, but it's part of the lore of the area. ?At the head of Jhus Canyon, just to the west of Davis Mountain, lies Frank C. Caldwell, killed June 1906. ?According to a local historian I met in Paradise, Caldwell was courting a widow woman who lived in a house on a table of land inside the canyon, but didn't know about the other man who was also attempting to court her, an individual who was deranged. ?And this man waited in ambush, and shot Caldwell out of his saddle. I think he was hung for it. And the widow woman remained a widow woman.

If you ever get into Jhus Canyon, going in about a 1/2 mile, the trail leads up to the table of land, where you can see some foundations and a fence. Look to the right and down a ravine. If you like old cars, there's a pair of late 1930's or 1940's that have been pushed down without damage.

[carajou]

In answer to "There is a lot of confusion between, The Monterrey Raid, The Treasure of Skeleton Canyon and The Davis Mnts Treasure", well, I'm going to agree with you on that.? I think there's the possibility of an amalgamation of stories into one, and it has happened before.

A prime example, however tragic it is, was that a New York or Boston newspaper once reported that the Titanic was being towed to Halifax by the liner Virginian after striking the iceberg.? Imagine those relatives who's spirits were bouyed up by that bit of news when they discovered that the reporters made a serious mix-up, that it was the Virginian under tow to Halifax, and the Titanic at the bottom.

[curly]

The single most important fact about this treasure is, yes, was there was a treasure in the first place. But more so, the key to prving it exists is finding out what the true source of this treasure way-bill was? In other words, we have evidence both Grounds and Hunt's family received information both written and verbal of some kind of Monterrey loot. So, it probably was real and both men shared in the dream of digging it up. But I dont think they actually DID the robbery. Some much earlier group did and gave them the story.

In addition, the Monterry Loot in my opinion has almost NOTHING to do with the Skeleton Canyon tale, as thats a separate roberry, from my research. Thats part of solving this thing. This Monterrey Robbery loot way-bill and directions to digging it up were obviously given to two green-horn bandits from Texas prior to 1882 via the more experienced posse of Curly Bill and Hughes outlaw group. These Texas men could NOT have travelled to Monterry in the 1880's and pulled off this type of thing. They wouldnt have been writing letters back home saying waht they said or getting shot over stealing wagons and petty stuff in Arizona in 1882 if this was the case.

The key is researching the Curly Bill gang and the founding outlaws who made up this gang prior to 1882. Some of these guys were hard core men who had long track records of deeds from years earlier. Hunt and Grounds were babies compared to what these guys did. I think they committed this robbery and before they were all killed off, passed this to the members that were left. For example, some of these men came from earlier theivery in Lincoln New Mexico, Silver City, and even Guerilla and post Civil War era days, and so, something was handed down from these men from some massive robbery of years ealier. Hunt and Grounds quite possibly never were involved in or saw the loot but had the way-bill to it.

In addition, from my research, Im convinced the "Moneterry" stuff is just a cover for something buried somewhere else, that was the central cache for this loose group of men that comprised the Curly Bill gang or its confederation, and had nothing to do with Arizona at all. Most of these guys, as I said earlier, were getting killed off by 1882, or hanged, so it makes sense that these two young Texans would be the sole owners of some waybill to some huge buried cache for the group at the time they were killed. From the Cole story and others, its obvious there are allot of other "branches" to this tale that include other evidence thats been passed into various hands and hidden from site, blurring the facts even more to what happened in this earlier robbery.

For this reason, its my belief that the loot or part of it is tied to some robbery from men fleeing Mexico after 1867 who were part of the falling regeim there, and this did include Conf. Guerilla's and possibly the James brothers. There are stories of some members of this gang returning to the west looking for this stuff, inculding a man who returned to Texas years later and who did recover some strong boxes of Mexican $20 pieces in caves here related to the treasure. One item says it was $80k worth,matching the Hunts and Dobies description of one part of the treasure. So, it was real. There also are hints of stories of a robbery of Monterrey by the James gang or its guerilla after the Civil War in some books of that era, and I think something with this treasure goes way way back to those days when the west was a bit wilder and Mexico was a bit different than it was by 1882. I also believe most of this wastreasure was probably found, but think there is a chance the main cache is out there somewhere. If someone could look past the clues provided in Hunt's way-bill as an exact description of the treasure location and instead combine parts of those with other treasure tale clues that match these earlier robberies, then I think the treasure could be found. Someone out there holds some clue or way-bill that links what Zwing and Grounds were given with this much earlier cache or James loot, and the two combined I believe will solve the mystery.

C