Are we killing coins by searching boxes?

[Fredness]

So, here are some givens:
We search sealed boxes of machine wrapped coins.
We know that one end of the wrapper is pre-formed and loaded in to the counting machine, the coins are counted/dispensed and in a separate step, the crimper presses the roll tight, and applies the final roll crimp.
We also know that many coins are damaged in this process - but I'll say 1 in 10 rolls for this example.

Now, with 20 coins per roll, there is a 1 in 10 chance of the open end coin getting damaged.
Each time the coin is subject to our "catch and release" it gets stored in the bank vault until it goes back to the vendor, where it is mechanically sorted, counted and rolled again, increasing the chance of more damage.

Discuss...

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Minelab PRO-FIND 35 Waterproof Pinpointer Metal Detector for Experts with Tone ID & Adjustable Sensitivity - Grab it through Amazon!

[obediah]

So, here are some givens:
We search sealed boxes of machine wrapped coins.
We know that one end of the wrapper is pre-formed and loaded in to the counting machine, the coins are counted/dispensed and in a separate step, the crimper presses the roll tight, and applies the final roll crimp.
We also know that many coins are damaged in this process - but I'll say 1 in 10 rolls for this example.

Now, with 20 coins per roll, there is a 1 in 10 chance of the open end coin getting damaged.
Each time the coin is subject to our "catch and release" it gets stored in the bank vault until it goes back to the vendor, where it is mechanically sorted, counted and rolled again, increasing the chance of more damage.

Discuss...

Ain't no big deal to me as am solely interested in Silver not numismatics.

 

[Ju8vP3t]

I'd say most of the coins (Halves) are in average to worst circulated condition anyway

 

[GMan00001]

So, here are some givens:
We search sealed boxes of machine wrapped coins.
We know that one end of the wrapper is pre-formed and loaded in to the counting machine, the coins are counted/dispensed and in a separate step, the crimper presses the roll tight, and applies the final roll crimp.
We also know that many coins are damaged in this process - but I'll say 1 in 10 rolls for this example.

Now, with 20 coins per roll, there is a 1 in 10 chance of the open end coin getting damaged.
Each time the coin is subject to our "catch and release" it gets stored in the bank vault until it goes back to the vendor, where it is mechanically sorted, counted and rolled again, increasing the chance of more damage.

Discuss...

Let me start by disputing your given that everyone searches sealed boxes of machine wrapped coins. I don't remember my totals for this year offhand, but I know I have searched well over 1 million coins this year and of those maybe 10,000 were machine wrapped coins....maybe (it's probably lower). Granted most were not half dollars.

Your assumptions only work for half dollars as other denominations have more coins per roll and also there are machines that roll coins for other denominations that do not have crimpers at the end (the coin condom type rolls....see through plastic). Haven't seen coin condoms for halves....wonder if they exist.

Although technically you are increasing the wear and tear/damage on the coins you return, unless you are returning coins that are worth keeping I don't think there will be any substantial difference. Any coin with numismatic or silver value is likely to be pulled the first time it is seen by a collector and thus the amount of wear and tear/damage on it will be minimal due to CRHers searching millions upon millions of coins.

The only coins I see getting extra damage would be error coins or NIFC coins that not everyone collects and most only have minimal if any numismatic value. And once again once identified by a collector and pulled, the cycle for that coin will stop.

 

[AGCoinHunter]

Cant say that I care that much if they get dinged because I am looking for silver. Most coins I go through are pretty banged up, even some of the silver.

 

[Fredness]

Interesting...

My "Givens" are mine - yours may vary, but it is true that the cycle ends, for that coin, once it is pulled from circulation. However, we have people who just look for silver, they would "release" the previously unknown 1995/6 D overstamp in to the wild, risking it once again.
Not saying any particular point is correct or incorrect - hence the word "discuss".

If you don't search boxes and only open hand rolled, bubble wrapped denominations that were cradled in swaddling clothes before being whisked to the clean room for the white glove inspection - this would not apply to you at all.

Just remember, if you are dumping your coins at all, they are potentially at risk if the bank has a coin supply/pick up contract.

Ju8vP3t
I think you are dead on about the condition, most halves I see are pretty rough, and since nothing has been released (for circulation) since 2000, they are only going to get worse.

Keep 'em coming!

 

[Rich Hartford]

I don't care if I found a Kennedy with 2 heads. If it's not silver I toss it.

 

[golden silver]

I am in it for the silver plus there are uncirculated coins thrown into circulation all the time. You can't hold back the tide. You can find the nice/valuable ones and pull them to safety though.

Golden Silver

 

[FL Junkman]

And what about those of us who are searching bags? I can't even get boxes in my area. HH

Fl Junkman

 

[coinmojo]

I know for sure that the boxes that I search every week and dump get rerolled and redistributed and I re buy them search and dump them to be re rolled and redistributed..... and on and on and on.. I am a one man Half dollar wreaking crew. To add to that I also buy bagged coin and loose coin and customer rolled coin.... Any coins I can get my hands on and send them through the same process as described above and lots of them have scratches on them from the wrapping machine......

My bad..... But I can tell you this I have rescued every Silver coin I come across.... But sadly most of those will meet their demise soon.

Mojo

 

[Darth Walker]

The mint rolles the same way

DW

 

[Silver Stripe]

So I should stop using the grill to get rid of the cardboard box and paper rolls? Dam I hate openning them by hand. HH Mark

 

[DAS7NY]

I'd say most of the coins (Halves) are in average to worst circulated condition anyway

Same, and not even in 150 years will clad halves ever be collected, they minted too many and have no intrinsic value. So I'll slaughter these coins if I have to! lol

 

[Fredness]

...I am a one man Half dollar wreaking crew.
Mojo

My feelings are the same, "Sorry, I'm just here to rescue the silver".

 

[mistergee]

Are we killing coins by searching boxes?

i'm not sure what you are asking here. are you assuming that all machine rolled and sealed boxes are uncirculated coins when we get them?
anyway to answer your question as it is worded.....i say no more than what the slot machines and coin counters do.
now i can give a good example from previous experience with coins that are opened for the first time ever. awhile back i found 16 original shotgun rolls (one open end) of 1963 Ben Franklin halfs. i have opened 12 of these so far as i'm putting 100 of the best together to send to PCGS for grading and slabbing. this is what i found.
so far not one coin DOESN'T have some sort of damage to it.....under magnification on some you can see some bag marks and on others you can see nicks where the edges have hit the obverse or reverse. some coins have both. the one thing they don't have is wear. also the coin that is on the open end of every roll has toned (or tarnished) on the side facing out. while these "toned halfs are beautiful in coloring they tend to be the ones with the most damage, although slight, it is still more than any other coin in the roll.
i included a few of these toned halfs in the 100 to see if the toning outweighs any damge they may have.
don't know if this info helps you at all with your question,but i do know that unless you get a full box of the same date, all the coins you are searching have been circulating for years and have already taken a hit on damage.

 

[ivan salis]

since most CRH'ers are after silver coins for their silver metal content value and most other halves have little real "collector" $$$ value their worthless to most CRH folks -- so few folks care if the "clad halves" get beat to death in the searching process frankly . -- since most are silver collectors / hoarders --not "coin collectors".

 

[packerbacker]

Personally I feel the numismatic value on silver coins is pretty much a "guessing" game. I don't care what the Redbook says. The numismatic value on "most" of the coins is derived based on how many were minted. Problem is, no one kept track of how many have been melted down during the silver frenzys. There "may" only be a handful left of a particular year and mintmark but no one knows for sure. All Redbook can go by is how many were initially minted, not how many are left. I'm also into this hobby mainly for silver. The 90%ers I hold onto because of a possible increase in numismatic value in the future and they are already nearly pure silver but the 40%ers get traded in for .999. I don't have the time to search for the few errors that may have crossed my hands but, due to their minimal value at best, I figure it's time well saved.

 

[mistergee]

Problem is, no one kept track of how many have been melted down during the silver frenzys. There "may" only be a handful left of a particular year and mintmark but no one knows for sure.

good point

 

[AGCoinHunter]

Problem is, no one kept track of how many have been melted down during the silver frenzys. There "may" only be a handful left of a particular year and mintmark but no one knows for sure.

Being that it is illegal nowdays to melt down coins, does the practice still take place in say other countries? I would assume it does here in the US also. Used to work with a few Indians who would order gold coins, carry them back to India and have them melted down and made into rings, chains and other various peices. You got to believe that a fair amount of 90% are being treated the same way.

 

[packerbacker]

Thing is AG is that it's not illegal to melt down the silver halves, including the 40%ers. It's being done every day. You can't melt down pennies for the copper but you can melt silver. That's why the silver halves, and other silver coins for that matter, are getting rarer by the day but no one knows for sure how rare. Like I mentioned earlier, all the coin books can do is value coins based on mintage and condition, they can only speculate as to how many may actually be left.