Reason #1 for banks not allowing employees to buy coins from their own tray/bank

[ScottNVAB]

..US Mint officer admits taking $2.4M worth of coins


Quote from Yahoo:
AP – ......CAMDEN, N.J. (AP) — A former police officer for the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia has admitted to stealing $2.4 million worth of "error" coins and selling them to a coin distributor in California.

U.S. Attorney Paul J. Fishman in New Jersey said 64-year-old William Gray pleaded guilty on Thursday to charges of theft of government property and tax evasion.

Gray, of North Wildwood, N.J., had worked at the U.S. Mint since 1996. In a federal court in Camden, N.J., he admitted taking $1 presidential coins that were missing edge lettering, knowing they would be considered more valuable to coin collectors because they were considered "mint errors." He mailed them from New Jersey.

He was freed on $50,000 bail. He is scheduled to be sentenced on Dec. 20.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------And this is reason #1 that tellers and/or armored car co's. should NEVER be allow to pilfer their own company's money for interesting coins. Temptation! Too hard to resist stealing once they start taking 1 coin here and 1 coin there!

 

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[palidin20603]

Get'em! Greedy Bast@rds!

 

[sniffer]

I hope he enjoys his lovely extended vacation at beautiful Ft. Leavenworth

 

[AGCoinHunter]

He will get a pardon, he was just spreading the wealth.

 

[ArkieBassMan]

..US Mint officer admits taking $2.4M worth of coins


Quote from Yahoo:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------And this is reason #1 that tellers and/or armored car co's. should NEVER be allow to pilfer their own company's money for interesting coins. Temptation! Too hard to resist stealing once they start taking 1 coin here and 1 coin there!

And I see the solution to the problem as being just the opposite. While as a CRHer, I don't want the Loomis employees searching MY coins, if I had a large vesting interest in Loomis Inc. (if I owned the company), I would allow employees to take any coin(s) they wish so long as they replaced it with an equal value coin(s). There is no temptation to steal, if you have permission to take it. Theft for Loomis, Inc. would go down to nearly zero. When it comes to temptation, human beings will never fare well. The only solution is to remove the temptation or suffer the consequences.

 

[Generic_Lad]

Not allowing tellers to take interesting coins is rather stupid in my opinion. First off, you have to realize just how little coins tellers deal with, most of you who've never worked as a teller think that they deal with several hundred dollars worth of coin every day that they can go through. In reality, they go through, perhaps, a single roll of coin a day if the tray is empty. Most people either drop off a large amount of coin, in which case it goes through the sorter and sealed in bags. Even the most low volume CRHer sorts through more coins in a week than a teller does in a month. The only thing tellers have access to that the rest of us generally don't is collection dumps. And why shouldn't tellers have the chance to buy it from their drawers? While I do agree they should be honest and not lie if someone asks them for the coins, there is no reason why they shouldn't have the first opportunity for the coins.

As for mint errors, I'm sure that a lot of them are smuggled out by mint employees to sell to collectors. After all, a die cap has to be physically removed by an employee, and I'm sure some of the more obviously off-center coins were intentionally overlooked. While things like clipped planchets and grease-filled dies are all easy to overlook, some of the more impressive errors are most likely smuggled out of the mint by employees.

 

[DarkRider23]

Your title is misleading as hell. He didn't buy the coins. He stole them according to the article. That's a completely different thing than buying them from the bank. If he bought them, it wouldn't be a big deal, but he didn't.

Tellers also don't deal with as much coin as everyone things they do. Every one thinks that tellers deal with hundreds of dollars worth of coin a day. We don't. When I started working there 3 MONTHS ago (Yes, MONTHS) I started off with 2 rolls of Pennies, Dimes, Nickels & Quarters. I still have a roll of Dimes in my drawer (although I did search and rewrap it already). Collections are rare as hell, so I don't see why everyone gets their panties in a bunch when they hear of a teller not selling a collection to you. It's their call in the end. You can make a stink about it or you can be the better man and walk away, so you get to keep your supply bank.

The only tellers that I guess can search coin very, very easily would be the tellers working in banks that get clear-wrapped coins. Those you could search very easily, but not many banks get those.

 

[Generic_Lad]

Your title is misleading as hell. He didn't buy the coins. He stole them according to the article. That's a completely different thing than buying them from the bank. If he bought them, it wouldn't be a big deal, but he didn't.

Tellers also don't deal with as much coin as everyone things they do. Every one thinks that tellers deal with hundreds of dollars worth of coin a day. We don't. When I started working there 3 MONTHS ago (Yes, MONTHS) I started off with 2 rolls of Pennies, Dimes, Nickels & Quarters. I still have a roll of Dimes in my drawer (although I did search and rewrap it already). Collections are rare as hell, so I don't see why everyone gets their panties in a bunch when they hear of a teller not selling a collection to you. It's their call in the end. You can make a stink about it or you can be the better man and walk away, so you get to keep your supply bank.

The only tellers that I guess can search coin very, very easily would be the tellers working in banks that get clear-wrapped coins. Those you could search very easily, but not many banks get those.

Exactly. I really don't get what it is with people in this hobby thinking that tellers get Morgans every week, solid rolls of silver quarters and dimes and collection dumps. Back when I worked at the bank, the most exciting thing that ever got brought in were 2 silver quarters mixed in with some bicentennials and Ikes. The only "collection dump" I ever got was three rolls of wheat pennies all in the '40s and '50s. The idea that they all have secret hidden stashes and spend their days CRHing is far from the truth. Most of what tellers do is take deposits and cash checks.

 

[SFBayArea]

..US Mint officer admits taking $2.4M worth of coins


Quote from Yahoo:
AP – ......CAMDEN, N.J. (AP) — A former police officer for the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia has admitted to stealing $2.4 million worth of "error" coins and selling them to a coin distributor in California.

U.S. Attorney Paul J. Fishman in New Jersey said 64-year-old William Gray pleaded guilty on Thursday to charges of theft of government property and tax evasion.

Gray, of North Wildwood, N.J., had worked at the U.S. Mint since 1996. In a federal court in Camden, N.J., he admitted taking $1 presidential coins that were missing edge lettering, knowing they would be considered more valuable to coin collectors because they were considered "mint errors." He mailed them from New Jersey.

He was freed on $50,000 bail. He is scheduled to be sentenced on Dec. 20.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------And this is reason #1 that tellers and/or armored car co's. should NEVER be allow to pilfer their own company's money for interesting coins. Temptation! Too hard to resist stealing once they start taking 1 coin here and 1 coin there!

What if the guy took the mint error coins and replaced them with coins of his own? That would no longer be stealing since they're basically only treated by face value?

 

[BuffaloBoy]

I wonder why, Camden, NJ is also listed #2 as america's most dangerous cities.

 

[ScottNVAB]

As a former LOSS PREVENTION person, I can tell you this: people always start small. Then they push the envelope as greed takes over. Eventually it gets so big, they get caught. NO ONE starts out big with the exception of a robber. I am willing to bet this guy did not just walk out with these. Most likely, he was "buying souvenirs" in the form of rolls or boxes. Except, the boxes were worth 100x face value due to the coin errors. Whatever the case may be, it will be interesting to get more details of this story.

 

[SFBayArea]

As a former LOSS PREVENTION person, I can tell you this: people always start small. Then they push the envelope as greed takes over. Eventually it gets so big, they get caught. NO ONE starts out big with the except of a robber. I am willing to bet this guy did not just walk out with these. Most likely, he was "buying souvenirs" in the form of rolls or boxes. Except, the boxes were worth 100x face value due to the coin errors. Whatever, it will be interesting to get more details of this story.

All I'm asking is how can it be theft if one paid for them face value or replaced them especially since the U.S. mint does not offer error coins for sale beyond face value? I would argue that in court if that was the case. It's really not different than some vending machine operators that I heard culling silver quarters from the machines. They always replaced the silver quarter with a clad one from their own change.

I know that the U.S. mint has policies against taking error coins because they're supposed to be destroyed if found and perhaps in this case, it would fall under that. He would be guilty of violating that policy but not theft in my mind if he replaced their face value.

However if this guy just took them and did not replace them or pay for them face value, he will be guilty and punished accordingly.

No wonder the HSN or Coin Vault had so many of those Godless dollar coins slabbed for sale years back. I wondered how they got their hands on so many.

 

[ScottNVAB]

No wonder the HSN or Coin Vault had so many of those Godless dollar coins slabbed for sale years back. I wondered how they got their hands on so many.

LOL-HSN....not sure. I don't know the details but I would love to know the full story.

 

[Generic_Lad]

As a former LOSS PREVENTION person, I can tell you this: people always start small. Then they push the envelope as greed takes over. Eventually it gets so big, they get caught. NO ONE starts out big with the exception of a robber. I am willing to bet this guy did not just walk out with these. Most likely, he was "buying souvenirs" in the form of rolls or boxes. Except, the boxes were worth 100x face value due to the coin errors. Whatever the case may be, it will be interesting to get more details of this story.

Not everyone is a thief. In fact, very few people really are. If you equate taking a silver and replace it with theft, then first off:

1) People won't want to work there. I'm sorry, but if management treats me like a criminal, I'm not going to work there.

2) People will outright steal it.

And like another poster pointed out, if he was buying them for face value it isn't theft. Theft deprives someone of property. Now, he clearly wasn't doing his job right (since the mint is supposed to destroy all error coins). But to be honest, there are some errors that 99.9% of the time would have to be the result of a mint employee taking the coin out. For example, die caps.

Stories like this is why you never "invest" in modern error coins because they can be made deliberately and hoarded by mint employees and sold to dealers. Now, there isn't anything wrong in picking up an error coin because you like it, but investing in it is likely to be the wrong decision.

 

[Clad the Impaler]

Bad news for Mr. Gray- the missing edge lettering on the Presidential $1 coins was pretty common when they first came out, so it isn't really considered an "error" and these coins carry little, if any premium.