Upgrade 40% for 90%, or keep stacking?

[FormerTeller]

So I ended up getting the collection, seen here http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/c...now-i-need-advice-good-offer.html#post5856019. The gentleman accepted my offer of $2,800 and we were both satisfied with how things turned out. I'll post some silver porn in another thread.

My dilemma is that I had to basically use up all of my CRH'ing funds to scrape together enough money to make the purchase. I borrowed $500 today to buy one of the 2 boxes I order each week - will search it tonight, cash in tomorrow, buy the second box, cash in Monday, and repay the loan Monday. I hate being cash poor. I get paid next week, but have big bills coming up, will take me forever to build up my bankroll again.

My original plan had been to make the buy, quickly flip the junk silver, and keep just the stuff I wanted. Now however, I'm having second thoughts. For one thing, I'm used to buying junk silver every few weeks for 13-14 times face value, yet here I just bought several years worth for 9.5 times face, and I'm going to sell it for 11 times face? And probably buy it again months later for 13-14 times? Nonsense! But I don't have the cash needed to take it all and keep it.

Then I got to thinking - I've got over 2,000 40% silver halves that I've found over the years taking up room in my safe deposit box. What if I sold them say to a refinery for a little under spot, and 'bought' the 90% silver that I was going to sell? That would mean I'd in effect be trading 40% for 90%, right? Technically, I might even make money. I've been doing the math, or trying to - it's confusing.

TL-DR - does it make sense to trade my 40% silver halves for 90% silver? Do I lose anything in the transaction (other than shipping fees)?

 

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[GlenDronach]

I've been thinking this too. The money tied up+ storage space over a 90% change.

I think a few things to consider:

1. Yes you're probably going to lose some silver value- if you're OK with that, that's a personal choice.

2. I don't know the history of premiums. In the last spike, what was the variation on premiums for 90% junk vs 40% junk? Is there an advantage in trading out now while premiums are relatively low?

3. You make a sound argument about selling and later rebuying the silver. I don't know how much you buy every month, but would it make sense to just put the next few months back into your bankroll and you effectively purchased it at a discount?

 

[Diver_Down]

You will likely lose some value, but you are "losing" that each month by paying for a safety deposit box to store that volume of 40%'ers. You were around when the last run up a decade ago pushed a 40%'er to $5/each. In the meantime, you are sitting on a stack that is less desirable for potential buyers as the price of silver continues to languish. My advice to you and others is to convert your stack to 90%'ers or Numismatic bullion (Pandas, ASE, Philharmonic, etc.) I steer clear of generic silver rounds as when it comes time to sell the 90%'ers and Numismatic bullion hold their value whereas the GSR are discounted. Too many counterfeits of the GSRs out there...

TLDR; - Sell your 40% stack. You've already bought the 90%'ers. Replenish your bankroll.

 

[cyberdan]

It has been my experience that most places that buy 90% don't really like 40% because it is much harder to refine and pull out the AG, too much copper. Maybe try selling rolls on feeBay. price them so you at least break even after all the fees and shipping.

 

[Megalodon]

Congrats on getting the collection!

If it was me (and it is not) and if I needed the cash (and I don't), then I would keep the 90% that you already have while silver is fairly low now, but I would sell the 40% for two reasons: 1) to generate some cash flow, and 2) to free up some of your safety deposit space (and I hope the box is free with your account). I would sell the 40%ers to a coin dealer. If you have a coin show within reasonable driving distance, that would be the best option to get a fair price on the 40%ers, IMO.

 

[fistfulladirt]

Provident metals is paying 90% of melt on 40% Kennedys. I don’t think a dealer is going to come anywhere close to that, I’ve sold Craigslist, local dealer and at shows.

Provident is also selling 90% junk silver very close to melt, about 11.6 x face.

My opinion is that most 40% halves don’t make it to a refiner, they just change hands among stackers.

 

[Megalodon]

Is it cost effective to ship 40% halves to Dallas, TX ?

 

[Oquario79]

I sold 40 rolls of 40% to APMEX last year at roughly 93% melt value.. To send it via registered mail was about $50 via USPS. It was worth it at the time. Best part is that didn't need to report to IRS because 40% are excluded. link below

www.apmex.com/faq/tax-information-on-gold-silver-buying?force-full-site=1

 

[Diver_Down]

Is it cost effective to ship 40% halves to Dallas, TX ?

I don't know if Provident requires specific shipping (registered mail). But if there is no specific requirement, one can use the USPS flat rate boxes that includes tracking. The large flat rate cost is $18.65 and up to 68 lbs. is allowed.

 

[fistfulladirt]

Is it cost effective to ship 40% halves to Dallas, TX ?

Don t know, weigh the cost/

 

[Avago]

If it were me, this is what I would (and have done):

Sell the 40%, private party is the best, absolutely. I was frequently getting at least melt for 40% via private party sales. I recommend Facebook coin groups, there are several buy/sell/trade pages that you can list coins for free.

I would also sell most of the 90%, same situation.

Once you make your profit, instead of just pocketing the cash, use your profit to keep some of the 90%. Basically, any of the profit you made and converted to 90% makes it free to you. Your bankroll is freed back up and you've skimmed a little off the top.

It's similar to your idea of selling your 2000 x 40% halves and "buying" the 90%, except you're not giving up some of your silver when converting your 40% to 90%

For example (arbitrary numbers), you sell the 40% you purchased and make $95. Take that profit and "buy" $10.00fv of the 90% (at 9.5x face). You can do the same thing when you sell the rest of the 90%, you just need to figure out how much you will sell, profit, and keep beforehand. Your bankroll is freed up and you come away with some "free" 90%.

This is how I treat purchasing... Flip it, make my buck and keep a little for myself.

 

[fistfulladirt]

If it were me, this is what I would (and have done):

Sell the 40%, private party is the best, absolutely. I was frequently getting at least melt for 40% via private party sales. I recommend Facebook coin groups, there are several buy/sell/trade pages that you can list coins for free.

I would also sell most of the 90%, same situation.

Once you make your profit, instead of just pocketing the cash, use your profit to keep some of the 90%. Basically, any of the profit you made and converted to 90% makes it free to you. Your bankroll is freed back up and you've skimmed a little off the top.

It's similar to your idea of selling your 2000 x 40% halves and "buying" the 90%, except you're not giving up some of your silver when converting your 40% to 90%

For example (arbitrary numbers), you sell the 40% you purchased and make $95. Take that profit and "buy" $10.00fv of the 90% (at 9.5x face). You can do the same thing when you sell the rest of the 90%, you just need to figure out how much you will sell, profit, and keep beforehand. Your bankroll is freed up and you come away with some "free" 90%.

This is how I treat purchasing... Flip it, make my buck and keep a little for myself.

good idea

 

[halfdime]

I sold 40 rolls of 40% to APMEX last year at roughly 93% melt value.. To send it via registered mail was about $50 via USPS. It was worth it at the time. Best part is that didn't need to report to IRS because 40% are excluded. link below

www.apmex.com/faq/tax-information-on-gold-silver-buying?force-full-site=1

This might be the most valuable piece of information I've ever seen on TNet! I declared all my 40 and 90% profit from sales in 2017 and now I should file an amended return!

 

[FormerTeller]

Thanks for all the advice and comments. I ended up selling 500 of my 40%'s to my LCS; I was able to talk him up to $2.15 per coin, which was about what they were paying at Provident. I sold $65 face value of junk silver to a buddy of mine for slightly over what I paid for it, and kept all the rest of the collection. Now I have at least a bit of a bankroll with which to use for CRH, and will slowly build it back up over time. Unless I find another collection...

FT

 

[huntsman53]

Sorry I am late to comment! IMHO, if you are buying higher purity Silver for an investment for the future and/or for when the crap hits the fan (for when the Economy and Dollar goes in the toilet), then I would advise to sell all of your' 40% and 90% Silver coins where you can get the best price and purchase Silver Maple Leafs which have a purity of .9999 Fine Silver. However, quality Silver Rounds and/or Silver Bars of .999 Fine Silver is another possibility. All of these take up just a little more storage space as 90% Silver coins but you will have much more and much purer Silver hoarded for when it is needed or time to cash in. Most Refiners such as APMEX, JM Bullion, Kitco and Silvertowne have great deals on most of these and especially the Silver Maple Leafs if you are willing to take a various assortment of years. Just don't opt for the latter (newer) years as these are more sought after and more expensive to purchase.

 

[fistfulladirt]

Sorry I am late to comment! IMHO, if you are buying higher purity Silver for an investment for the future and/or for when the crap hits the fan (for when the Economy and Dollar goes in the toilet), then I would advise to sell all of your' 40% and 90% Silver coins where you can get the best price and purchase Silver Maple Leafs which have a purity of .9999 Fine Silver. However, quality Silver Rounds and/or Silver Bars of .999 Fine Silver is another possibility. All of these take up just a little more storage space as 90% Silver coins but you will have much more and much purer Silver hoarded for when it is needed or time to cash in. Most Refiners such as APMEX, JM Bullion, Kitco and Silvertowne have great deals on most of these and especially the Silver Maple Leafs if you are willing to take a various assortment of years. Just don't opt for the latter (newer) years as these are more sought after and more expensive to purchase.

If shtf, you’ll glad you held on to that 90% silver. Purity won’t be so much an issue, but fakes will be. You’ll want a widely recognized coin for barter, and that’s US junk silver.

 

[EastCoastmetal]

If shtf, you’ll glad you held on to that 90% silver. Purity won’t be so much an issue, but fakes will be. You’ll want a widely recognized coin for barter, and that’s US junk silver.

True but .999 or .9999 are so nice ,new and shiny and since no refining needs to be done , they could be in more of a demand , it all depends on what kind of SHTF scenario happens or does not happen.

Having a mix of both .90 percent and .999 .9999 is a good way to go. Maybe even .80 percent, maybe. But anything below that, not so much.

Personally I prefer only Silver Maples or Silver Eagles.

 

[huntsman53]

If shtf, you’ll glad you held on to that 90% silver. Purity won’t be so much an issue, but fakes will be. You’ll want a widely recognized coin for barter, and that’s US junk silver.

While U.S. coins are widely recognized, they are probably the most counterfeited. The Chinese and probably others are counterfeiting most dates of Half Dollars, especially the Walking Liberties and Barbers and we all know they are counterfeiting most of the Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. Heck, they are even counterfeiting Canadian Maple Silver Leafs, American Silver Eagles and some Silver Rounds now and who knows what else. Just saw a Counterfeit Canadian Silver Maple Leaf on Thursday and it is hard to tell unless you know what to look for, weigh them and check the diameter, thickness and whether they are magnetic. Also, the counterfeits vary depending upon the Counterfeiters who made them. The U.S. Government has long known that the Chinese counterfeit many of our' coins but the Chinese Government refuses to do anything about the problem. Why the CIA and/or NSA doesn't counterfeit the Chinese economy into non-existence is beyond me!

https://www.fakebullion.com/index.p...015-canadian-silver-maple-1-ounce-silver-coin

Fake Silver Coins: 14 Ways to Spot Counterfeits - Silver Coins

 

[Megalodon]

Thanks for all the advice and comments. I ended up selling 500 of my 40%'s to my LCS; I was able to talk him up to $2.15 per coin, which was about what they were paying at Provident. I sold $65 face value of junk silver to a buddy of mine for slightly over what I paid for it, and kept all the rest of the collection. Now I have at least a bit of a bankroll with which to use for CRH, and will slowly build it back up over time. Unless I find another collection...

FT

I think you did very well. And no shipping expense or worries.

 

[fistfulladirt]

While U.S. coins are widely recognized, they are probably the most counterfeited. The Chinese and probably others are counterfeiting most dates of Half Dollars, especially the Walking Liberties and Barbers and we all know they are counterfeiting most of the Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. Heck, they are even counterfeiting Canadian Maple Silver Leafs, American Silver Eagles and some Silver Rounds now and who knows what else. Just saw a Counterfeit Canadian Silver Maple Leaf on Thursday and it is hard to tell unless you know what to look for, weigh them and check the diameter, thickness and whether they are magnetic. Also, the counterfeits vary depending upon the Counterfeiters who made them. The U.S. Government has long known that the Chinese counterfeit many of our' coins but the Chinese Government refuses to do anything about the problem. Why the CIA and/or NSA doesn't counterfeit the Chinese economy into non-existence is beyond me!

https://www.fakebullion.com/index.p...015-canadian-silver-maple-1-ounce-silver-coin

Fake Silver Coins: 14 Ways to Spot Counterfeits - Silver Coins

Modern US junk halves, quarters and dimes are counterfeited? What’s the incentive? Please provide some more info.