63 Proof Jefferson

[halfdime]

Snagged this little beauty in a box of nickels tonight. I find lots of proofs but maybe none like this one!

 

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[Diver_Down]

Sorry, but I see some chip marks on it from banging other coins even though minor. One can't say it is uncirculated as somebody had to spend it before it made it's way to the bank.

Actually, uncirculated isn't a literal definition in numismatics. The moment a coin enters circulation doesn't mean that it is no longer uncirculated. Doesn't sound logical, but uncirculated is just a measure of wear. You are likely familiar with a grading scale (G/VG/F/EF/AU) for circulated coins. For mint state, coins are graded on a 10 point scale from 60 - 70. A coin that never left the mint can still have a low grade due to nicks and scratches in the coin handling/production process. On the other hand, a coin can be removed from a mint/proof set and placed in circulation without any incurring any additional wear before found. That coin is graded on it's condition not it's history and where found. If no additional wear and impairments are imparted on the coin, then it will have the same grade as when it left the set. Now, as it relates to modern proofs, any impairment will affect it's value where the spread from it's face value and the book value is minimal to begin with. Any impaired modern proof will likely not realize much value over face (There is a sucker born every minute it so there is the chance that someone can resell the coins). A proof coin is also graded on the same 10 point scale as mint state coins (60-70). Most modern proofs in their acrylic mint packaging will grade at PR-69 (PR-70 is absolute flawless and novice collectors assume that all proofs in the packaging are flawless). But those same coins in the packaging due to rough handling/storage can grade at PR-67/68.

 

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[enamel7]

BTW, correct me if you think I'm wrong, but isn't one condition of being a proof is that it isn't touched by man?

I know the descriptions equal to the numerical condition are somewhat of a misnomer. A value of 68 would be classed as uncirculated at least, but it can be proven that a proof coin has to have been circulated in order to get to the bank as they did not get it from the mint. Maybe I'm picking my own nits here.

No. A proof coin is a proof no matter what it looks like. You can carve a big X on the obverse and it's still a proof. A proof can grade anywhere between Pr-03 to Pr-70.

 

[Rosco53]

Swave...just admit you were wrong, accept it with some grace, learn something from it, and move on instead of just digging the hole deeper and deeper. Its a proof. Enough said.

 

[Swaveab]

Swave...just admit you were wrong, accept it with some grace, learn something from it, and move on instead of just digging the hole deeper and deeper. Its a proof. Enough said.

You can call it whatever you like, but my point was that it does go by the numerical scale and won't command a higher price just because you call it a proof. Diver Down confirmed what I was saying along that line. If the proof is damaged to the point it falls below the usual scales for unc and proof then the coin will get a rating below that is according to the numerical condition. This might be AU and it does seem odd to have a coin presented as a proof in AU condition as the proof designation is now worthless IMO. Admittedly, the coin is in nice shape and should carry a high numerical value, but if you were to try to sell it to me as a proof I wouldn't accept that. I would accept it as unc.

 

[dognose]

Could be someone broke open a proof box and spent it. At that point it is still a proof mint strike, but its circulated.

A very good find non the less. Congrats.

 

[Diver_Down]

You can call it whatever you like, but my point was that it does go by the numerical scale and won't command a higher price just because you call it a proof. Diver Down confirmed what I was saying along that line. If the proof is damaged to the point it falls below the usual scales for unc and proof then the coin will get a rating below that is according to the numerical condition. This might be AU and it does seem odd to have a coin presented as a proof in AU condition as the proof designation is now worthless IMO. Admittedly, the coin is in nice shape and should carry a high numerical value, but if you were to try to sell it to me as a proof I wouldn't accept that. I would accept it as unc.

I don't want you to confuse what I stated. A proof is a strike. It can vary in grade. Most modern proofs will grade PR-69. But if someone spends it/paints it/licks it/fondles it/lights it on fire, it doesn't change that it is a proof. It very well may only be worth face value, but it is still a proof.

 

[Rosco53]

You can call it whatever you like, but my point was that it does go by the numerical scale and won't command a higher price just because you call it a proof. Diver Down confirmed what I was saying along that line. If the proof is damaged to the point it falls below the usual scales for unc and proof then the coin will get a rating below that is according to the numerical condition. This might be AU and it does seem odd to have a coin presented as a proof in AU condition as the proof designation is now worthless IMO. Admittedly, the coin is in nice shape and should carry a high numerical value, but if you were to try to sell it to me as a proof I wouldn't accept that. I would accept it as unc.

No, your original quote was: "In a box of nickels? If from the bank it may be uncirculated, but it's not a proof. Proofs are specially minted and not circulated for you to find in a box. Even if it was originally a proof it isn't now being mixed in circulated coins."

That was wrong. You've just changed your argument as you've been proved wrong again and again.