Type of Coin?? 1864 Very Tiny....

[soupie]

Found this today...what type of coin is this...
Thanks Soup

 

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[DigginThePast]

I think its a counterfeit California Gold Dollar.

I'll see if I can locate a pic of one. Do you have an accurate measurement of the diameter?

Edit to add pics, link etc.

http://www.calgoldcoin.com/wreaths.htm

"Liberty head with 13 stars around. Cross hatch pattern on coronet
Thin wreath surrounded by stars, with 1 1864 inside

Not really part of the California gold series, this is a counter."

Not sure what a "counter" is supposed to be (counterfeit?). A cool find regardless.

 

[Tuberale]

Does look like an 1864 $1 gold coin, possibly/probably counterfeit. Gold doesn't tarnish, and I think I can see some pitting on the coin. Still, a very nice find. FYI, many many CA fractional gold coins were copied, even by the US Mint.

 

[soupie]

Thanks for the reply DigginThePast...
I do not have anything here besides a tape measure.....
Just a guess...12-14mm
Smaller than a halfdime or fishscale
Hope that helps.
Soup

 

[soupie]

Wow
I intended to hit an area this spring that was known to harbor counterfeiters....looks like I may have found some of there work...
Thanks for the ID Diggin...
I will just remain here speechless for a few more minutes...
Soup

 

[soupie]

So they were actually in circulation from the mint then?

 

[DigginThePast]

That would be really cool if you found a counterfeit at the location it is purported to have been produced.

I'd try to contact that Mike Locke at the link I provided. Perhaps he may be able to shed more light on your find which could help with any tie in to your location. I don't really know enough about Cali gold and wouldn't want to set you on a wrong course with assumptions.

 

[DigginThePast]

So they were actually in circulation from the mint then?

Not from the US Mint. During the California gold rush there was a shortage of small coinage so these "coins/tokens" were issued privately. Acceptance of these coins/tokens was limited and relatively few were made. Federal law was put into place in the 1860's to make it illegal to continue making these but by back dating fresh strikes the practice continued for a couple decades.

There were also a ton of counterfeits/forgeries but I'm not aware of the US Mint ever copying any.

 

[soupie]

The site I am aware of that harboured counterfiters Diggin is within 2 miles of where this was located,it is documented in the local history books.....not many folks would verture down by the river...here is a bit of the history I have read on this...there is more,but I cant show it all

It was a safe haven for thieves, murderers, counterfeiters and moonshiners. The area got its name from the dense swampy woodlands, the thick timber, the criminal element and from the lack of lights at night. The area was difficult to build in and construction of roads and highways was literally impossible because of the terrain. Most of the area was not surveyed until after Illinois became a state on December 3, 1818. Those surveys were not completed until 1839 and none of the land sold until the 1840's. Before the land was sold, squatters were the only people who lived in the area. Most of them were criminals who used the rough terrain as a hideout and who developed a close mutual protection fraternity. In other words, they protected their own in thwarting the arrest and conviction of its members. Lawmen tended to stay away from the area and its inhabitants.

Thanks Again
Soup

 

[Tuberale]

So they were actually in circulation from the mint then?

Not from the US Mint. During the California gold rush there was a shortage of small coinage so these "coins/tokens" were issued privately. Acceptance of these coins/tokens was limited and relatively few were made. Federal law was put into place in the 1860's to make it illegal to continue making these but by back dating fresh strikes the practice continued for a couple decades.

There were also a ton of counterfeits/forgeries but I'm not aware of the US Mint ever copying any.

Even I am not aware if the Mint ever produced them. But the San Francisco Mint in the 1980's had sets of replicas available as souveniers when I visited there.

 

[DigginThePast]

You are very welcome Soupie.

Sounds like you have a really cool site there, hope you have great finds.

 

[soupie]

Thanks for the replies Tuberale...
I am sure it is period to the site from the corrosion it shows,only coins to surface at this site were all in the 1850-60's
Save one,a silver french coin,and it has yet to be dated...Louis Phillipe I
Thanks again.
Soup

 

[mainer]

Nice find Scott. Keep me posted if you find out any more info on it. That is a cool find.

 

[lazooro]

Nice find Scott. Keep me posted if you find out any more info on it. That is a cool find.

really cool find!!! contemporary copy coin...nice!

 

[soupie]

Hi Jesse,
Sent an Email off to Mike Locke @ calgoldcoins. and this was his reply...

Scott,

Thanks for writing. What an interesting find! That is a moderately common
"counter"--a gaming token. Presumably it was used like a gambling chip.

It was probably made in England, but I don't know if there is positive
confirmation of that. There is a rare version that has CALIFORNIA across
the top of the reverse.


--
Mike Locke California Gold

Seems "counter" is a term for gaming chip,not counterfeit..so my search for counterfeits continue..
Still a great find,in my top 5 for sure...
Thanks all for your time and effort researching this..
Got to love this hobby

Scott

 

[DigginThePast]

Wow, he responded quick!

A great source.

 

[mainer]

Still a nice find Scott. And still it could have been used as a counterfit in its lifetime. If only that thing could talk. Now go find a real gold dollar.

 

[soupie]

Yeah Jesse,I am still thinking it could have been used as a counterfeit,no way to prove for sure,but it looks so much like the
1849-59 Liberty Head Gold Dollar not much of a stretch to get there...exactly why I enjoy these odd finds some much
Take Care Up There..
Soup