Map Dowsing Request

[Amatuertim]

I am new this site and to dowsing. I attempted my own map dowse but got varied results and would like an experienced dowser to take a look. I am looking for a cache of silver bars close to the surface. any help is appreciated. Thank you - Tim

 

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[Red_desert]

There is a silver signal in this map, there might be a possible deep excavation or cave /tunnel entrance in the vicinity also.

From my file of marking definitions.

"White in general is a color indicator, I use for natural caves or man made tunnel entrances and mine shafts, other similar type excavations (including old wells, tombs, etc.).

Blue line box (or solid filled circles) for deeper silver targets."

 

[Amatuertim]

Thanks Red, this was my first map dowsing try (outside of the home) and I got a read on the lower left but I know there was a silver mine there years ago. I was not able to get anything away from that site. When you say deep excavation, could it be more than ten feet? thanks for the read!! If I get to go out there I will update you on the results. Tim

 

[Amatuertim]

Here is a zoomed image of the area Red marked.

 

[Red_desert]

"When you say deep excavation, could it be more than ten feet?"

Now that you mention it, when checking depth kept going down beyond 10 ft. Stopped before finished, not sure how deep, remember getting a few feet more.

 

[Red_desert]

The places I get signals in the lower left.

 

[Red_desert]

Yes, the white dot area on the blue, signal disappears somewhere about 17 ft down.

 

[Red_desert]

I'm getting signals off both sides, since native silver was mined in this area, might be a silver vein.

 

[Amatuertim]

Thanks for the second and third read Red. I think I will poke around the first site when I can. Although 17 feet is pretty deep!

 

[Red_desert]

Thanks for the second and third read Red. I think I will poke around the first site when I can. Although 17 feet is pretty deep!

Might be nothing more than a small natural cave, never know until you check it out. Of course, on Spanish sites, people have uncovered holes that had a large flat rock over, hole itself went down far enough for a person to go down with a headlamp. These were used to store crude smelted bars, the site I'm referring to here 1 gold bar was found the Spanish left inside.

 

[aarthrj3811]

I get Silver Bars in man made Tunnel but they are about 100 foot deep. A Spanish mine marker can be seen from this spot. Look for a man laying down and it may be to the South. If you have a map of the area to the south please put it on here...Art

 

[Amatuertim]

Art, thank you for the read, and thanks again Red, however this is on the Tohono O'odham Nation and I will have to do some research to see if its ok for me to go out there. Tim

 

[Amatuertim]

This has Art's location at the top with a more in the south

 

[Red_desert]

Art, thank you for the read, and thanks again Red, however this is on the Tohono O'odham Nation and I will have to do some research to see if its ok for me to go out there. Tim

You would have to be with one of the Indians while on their land. Here is the national website.

Tohono O'odham Nation

 

[aarthrj3811]

In my area some of the Indian Land is under the control of the Forest Service. It is never good to go on Indian Land without permission...Art

 

[teleprospector]

Hello Amatuertim,Interesting area.Dowsing revealed an attraction to "mixed composition" treasure bars....gold/silver/copper in the areas of the thick white circles. There are quite a few down in underground chambers in the largest white circle area.Treasure signs/symbols/markers(white triangles)surround this area of Spanish mining origin. Mining areas are white circles with x in them.Thanks for posting your picture,Jon

 

[Red_desert]

The Indian lands are under a federal agency, the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 (AS AMENDED) applies to all Indian Reservation lands.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/local-law/fhpl_archrsrcsprot.pdf


FEDERAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAWS
141
FEDERAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAWS
be limited to: pottery, basketry, bottles, weapons, weapon projectiles, tools, structures or portions of structures, pit houses, rock paintings, rock carvings, intaglios, graves, human skeletal materials, or any portion or piece of any of the foregoing items. Nonfossilized and fossilized paleontological specimens, or any portion or piece thereof, shall not be considered archaeological resources, under the regulationsunder this paragraph, unless found in an archaeological context. No item shall be treated as an archaeological resource under regulations under this paragraph unlessuch item is at least 100 years of age.
(2) The term
“Federal land manager” means, with respect to any public lands, the Secretary of the department, or the head of any other agency or instrumentality of the United States, having primary management authority over such lands. In the case of any public lands or Indian lands with respect to which no department, agency, or instrumentality has primary management authority, such term means the Secretary of the Interior. If the Secretary of the Interior consents, the responsibilities (in whole or in part) under this Act of the Secretary of any department (other than the Department of the Interior) or the head of any other agency or instrumentality may be delegated to the Secretary of the Interior with respect to any land managed by such other Secretary or agency head, and in any such case, the term “Federal land manager” means the Secretary of the Interior.


FEDERAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAWS
141
FEDERAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION LAWS
(4) The term
“Indian lands” means lands of Indian tribes, or Indian individuals, which are either held in trust by the United States or subject to a restriction against alienation imposed by the United States, except for any subsurface interests in lands not owned or controlled by an Indian tribe or an Indian individual.
(5) The term
“Indian tribe” means any Indian tribe, band, nation, or other organized group or community, including any Alaska Native village or regional or village corporation as defined in, or established pursuant to, the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (85 Stat. 688, 43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.).
(6) The term
“person” means an individual, corporation, partnership, trust, institution, association, or any other private entity or any officer, employee, agent, department, or instrumentality of the United States, of any Indian tribe, or of any State or political subdivision thereof.

Section 4
(a) Any person may apply to the Federal land manager for a permit to excavate or remove any archaeological resource located on public lands or Indian lands and to carry out activities associated with such excavation or removal. The application shall be required, under uniform regulations under this Act, to contain such information as the Federal land manager deems necessary, including information concerning the time, scope, and location and specific purpose of the proposed work. 16 U.S.C. 470cc(b), Determinations by Federal land manager prerequisite to issuance of permit
(b) A permit may be issued pursuant to an application under subsection (a) of this section if the Federal land manager determines, pursuant to uniform regulations under this Act, that—
(1) the applicant is qualified, to carry out the permitted activity,
(2) the activity is undertaken for the purpose of furthering archaeological knowledge in the public interest, (3) the archaeological resources which are excavated or removed from public lands will remain the property of the United States, and such resources and copies of associated archaeological records and data will be preserved by a suitable university, museum, or other scientific or educational institution, and
(4) the activity pursuant to such permit is not inconsistent with any management plan applicable to the public lands concerned. 16 U.S.C. 470cc(c), Notification to Indian tribes of possible harm to or destruction of sites having religious or cultural importance
(c) If a permit issued under this section may result in harm to, or destruction of, any religious or cultural site, as determined by the Federal land manager, before issuing such permit, the Federal land manager shall notify any Indian tribe which may consider the site as having religious or cultural importance. Such notice shall not be deemed a disclosure to the public for purposes of section 9 of this Act.

 

[Amatuertim]

Thanks Red for the info, I found this almost at the end. I will still double check with the tribal website to see if there is any permissions I need to be out there. Thanks Jon and Art for the dowsing. The mines in the lower left are the Vekol silver mine first discovered by the Jesuits and later a Papago Indian led John Walker to it in the late 1880s where he mined for good period. Some of the readings you have done at least inspired a little confidence in me for the reads I got. Tim

Section 12 (a) Nothing in this Act shall be construed to repeal, modify, or impose additional restrictions on the activities permitted under existing laws and authorities relating to mining, mineral leasing, reclamation, and other multiple uses of the public lands.
16 U.S.C. 470kk(b), Private collections
(b) Nothing in this Act applies to, or requires a permit for, the collection for private purposes of any rock, coin, bullet, or mineral which is not an archaeological resource, as determined under uniform regulations promulgated under section 3(1) of this Act.

 

[Red_desert]

Ok, probably the bottom line, is what the Indian chief has to say about all this.

 

[teleprospector]

Go and set up a meeting and it will probably open up new opportunities/adventures for you that have not yet presented themselves.