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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly Prince View Post
    The Ouija board origins. The last part of the article discusses scientific studies which produced surprising results.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...board-5860627/
    Perhaps dowsing, when it works, does work in much the same way.
    I don't have a dog in the hunt. What I would like to see is proof.
    If there is something to dowsing, perhaps this is the time when dowsers see through the glass darkly.
    Interesting article, thanks.

    As I've said before, proofs are for mathematicians & distillers. Science doesn't deal in proof, just evidence & theories. Nothing is ever proven.

    The article talks about ideomotor action as being responsible for the movement of the planchett. Ideomotor is purely subconscious and when it kicks in, it is truly a bizarre feeling. This is the same thing dowsers feel get when they get a "hit" with dowsing rods. It's a tugging sensation as if the rods are moving on their own.

    The purpose of the frame and the counter-balance is to eliminate the possibility that the user is causing the rod(s) to move, even subconsciously. And they do that, resulting in a complete lack of response. That is, the rod(s) go dead. In science, that's called evidence, and points to the extreme likelihood that dowsing responses are self-inflicted. But that doesn't address what might trigger the ideomotor effect. Other tests would have to be designed to do that.

    --Carl
    Darke and Hillbilly Prince like this.

  2. #32

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl-NC View Post
    .... as if the rods are moving on their own....
    They're not ?
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  3. #33
    Charter Member
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    They do move, I have located hundreds of power lines, water lines, cable lines, fiber optic lines, pvc pipes that have never had anything in them hundreds of times.
    PLEASE READ OUR RULES. CLICK HERE TO READ ------> TreasureNet.com Rules

    2nd Amendment
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war!

    USAF 1967-1971

    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

    No Expiration Date!

  4. #34

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treasure_Hunter View Post
    They do move....
    On their own ?
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  5. #35
    Charter Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    On their own ?
    Yes
    PLEASE READ OUR RULES. CLICK HERE TO READ ------> TreasureNet.com Rules

    2nd Amendment
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war!

    USAF 1967-1971

    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

    No Expiration Date!

  6. #36
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    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
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    As in reflexive responses to pain, the body sometimes reacts reflexively with an ideomotor effect to ideas alone without the person consciously deciding to take action. The effects of automatic writing, dowsing, facilitated communication, and Ouija boards have been attributed to the phenomenon.

    I Would also add driving a car. Pulling your hand away from a hot stove etc. or hundreds of everyday task...Art

  7. #37

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarthrj3811 View Post
    As in reflexive responses to pain, the body sometimes reacts reflexively with an ideomotor effect to ideas alone without the person consciously deciding to take action. The effects of automatic writing, dowsing, facilitated communication, and Ouija boards have been attributed to the phenomenon....
    Which is all exactly why Carl's device won't work. Tsk tsk.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  8. #38
    us
    Mar 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarthrj3811 View Post
    I Would also add driving a car. Pulling your hand away from a hot stove etc. or hundreds of everyday task...Art
    Pulling your hand from a hot stove is a reflex action, not ideomotor.

    Driving a car, riding a bike, handwriting, etc are repetitive motor skills, not ideomotor. You have to learn those skills.

    Anyone else want to try?

  9. #39
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    Aug 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    When Carl posted his device, that was supposed to alleviate and correct for the ideomotor (tilt/gravity) effect, I just knew there was a reason why this was not conclusive. Sorry Carl. Your device shows nothing .



    Two things:

    A) No one has to "prove" anything.

    B) But sure: There's been "proofs" here quite frequently. Persons have shown coins, an AA battery, various metal items, and .... sometimes even some valuable goodies. How is that not the proof you ask for ?
    You have a good point. No one has to prove a thing. For that matter, we see proof of md working posted several times a day here and do not question. A photo is not proof. I have old coins- would be child's play to stage a find and post photos.
    I actually intend to try dowsing this year.
    The thing is there are so few pics from dowsers. Very few dowsers so that is understandable. Lack of dowsers maybe due to it seeming akin to using a Ouija board or consulting a fortunr teller.
    The article I linked seems to indicate we are smarter than we think, according to scientific studies.
    Why do you think dowsing works?
    Last edited by Hillbilly Prince; Jan 11, 2019 at 08:54 PM.
    You may forget but let me tell you this: someone in some future time will think of us-Sappho

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl-NC View Post
    Pulling your hand from a hot stove is a reflex action, not ideomotor.

    Driving a car, riding a bike, handwriting, etc are repetitive motor skills, not ideomotor. You have to learn those skills.

    Anyone else want to try?
    I'm not trying. This is just interesting to me. Just for the sake of discussion, why do you think dowsing cannot work? Simply stated.
    I'm not a dowser, by the way.
    You may forget but let me tell you this: someone in some future time will think of us-Sappho

  11. #41
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    Aug 2018
    Central Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly Prince View Post
    I'm not trying. This is just interesting to me. Just for the sake of discussion, why do you think dowsing cannot work? Simply stated.
    I'm not a dowser, by the way.
    Not speaking for Carl but the main skepticism towards dowsing is it can't be repeated under scrutiny. Just like psychic phenomenon it fails repeated in blinded experiments. I learned with the forked branch method and like Carl has stated the response can be more than a little weird when experienced.

  12. #42
    us
    Mar 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly Prince View Post
    Very few dowsers so that is understandable. Lack of dowsers maybe due to it seeming akin to using a Ouija board or consulting a fortunr teller.
    If treasure dowsing worked to any extent, everyone would be using it.

    Now here's a thought...

    Some utility workers use dowsing, and often claim decent success with it.
    Water dowsers are (or were) reasonably prevalent, and had decent success with it.

    Why would water dowsing or utility dowsing have (presumably) decent success, but treasure dowsing does not seem to share in that success?

    The article I linked seems to indicate we are smarter than we think, according to scientific studies.
    Not smarter, but there is information that is better tapped at the subconscious level.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl-NC View Post

    Not smarter, but there is information that is better tapped at the subconscious level.
    The amount of information we store on a daily basis would be staggering in terms of bytes. It's unfortunate we don't have a defrag for the brain yet. What we can recall compared to what we process pretty small. And usually our perception overwrites what we actually saw for most events.
    Hillbilly Prince likes this.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darke View Post
    Not speaking for Carl but the main skepticism towards dowsing is it can't be repeated under scrutiny. Just like psychic phenomenon it fails repeated in blinded experiments. I learned with the forked branch method and like Carl has stated the response can be more than a little weird when experienced.
    That would be interesting. What claims do dowsers make? That sometimes they can find coins, water, treasure? More often than not?
    Scepticism can be easily understood if no one can replicate results consistently.
    I don't tend to be sceptical about most things, unless a claim is over the top. Many people claim to see ghosts. I have to think, with the billions who have passed, shouldn't we be swimming in ghosts? But there may be a completely scientific explanation for a ghost sighting which may appear a century or two from now.
    I thought Tom is a sceptic?
    If someone can dowse, does it follow they can dowse maps and photos, or be successful with other methods of dowsing?
    You may forget but let me tell you this: someone in some future time will think of us-Sappho

  15. #45
    us
    Aug 2018
    Central Florida
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    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly Prince View Post
    That would be interesting. What claims do dowsers make? That sometimes they can find coins, water, treasure? More often than not?
    Scepticism can be easily understood if no one can replicate results consistently.
    I don't tend to be sceptical about most things, unless a claim is over the top. Many people claim to see ghosts. I have to think, with the billions who have passed, shouldn't we be swimming in ghosts? But there may be a completely scientific explanation for a ghost sighting which may appear a century or two from now.
    I thought Tom is a sceptic?
    If someone can dowse, does it follow they can dowse maps and photos, or be successful with other methods of dowsing?
    Most claim they can find pretty much anything. And sometimes they do. More than just random? That's hard to discern without a large enough sample.

    I like the paranormal and have built many a rod for ghosthunters. I've even accompanied them on sure thing events. And I still haven't seen a ghost or any legendary creatures, not even a sign of Bruce Campbell. I think I might be scaring them away lol.

    Tom is definitely a skeptic. His replies had a different reasoning.

    Dowsing is mostly a learned technique so you can do any type if you learn the nuances. Or put in the time to judge responses as most would say. Although like most things innate talent can be the difference between good and great.

 

 
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